Snowy Demon Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 22 minutes ago, FT35 said: Non Sox fans don’t understand how important it is for us to fleece someone in a Cease trade. For teams like us who don’t develop talent, this is our only path to any sort of success. And we will need to set the market high because we will want top dollar for all these guys we’re about to get for Cease when we burn it all to the ground in a few seasons. Whatever happened to making a trade that is fair to both side instead of "winning" or "fleece" other team? This is also something that cannot be determined before some seasons passed most of time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Soxfan Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Cease is Opening Day starter for White Sox, trams are moving on. Not sure what Getz has really been offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Springfield Soxfan said: trams Damned trams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said: Whatever happened to making a trade that is fair to both side instead of "winning" or "fleece" other team? This is also something that cannot be determined before some seasons passed most of time. Those kinds of trades typically involve a MLer from a position of surplus for a MLer of a different position of need. This is definitely not one of those trades. This is a proven, elite, controllable MLB talent in exchange for guys we hope turn out to be as good as or better than Cease in a couple years. Essentially, you’re agreeing to get fleeced for the next couple years by giving up a top talent for nothing that will help you anytime soon. The hope is the return is worth waiting for. Edited December 30, 2023 by FT35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 32 minutes ago, FT35 said: Non Sox fans don’t understand how important it is for us to fleece someone in a Cease trade. For teams like us who don’t develop talent, this is our only path to any sort of success. And we will need to set the market high because we will want top dollar for all these guys we’re about to get for Cease when we burn it all to the ground in a few seasons. We understand but just because it’s what you want, doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. We just went through a rebuild and wanted the same thing. We all get it. We just don’t care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, FT35 said: Those kinds of trades typically involve a MLer from a position of surplus for a MLer of a different position of need. This is definitely not one of those trades. This is a proven, elite, controllable MLB talent in exchange for guys we hope turn out to be as good as or better than Cease in a couple years. Exactly. People overthinking it trying to decide “value” like some kind of Keith Law type. We’re trading the proven durable cy young type guy on a ridiculous contract. it’s not ridiculous to want 2 guys in return. 2 bad ass unproven young guys. Sounds like Mayo and Cowser to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Jerksticks said: Exactly. People overthinking it trying to decide “value” like some kind of Keith Law type. We’re trading the proven durable cy young type guy on a ridiculous contract. Which is a statement that still ignores that 2023 happened. Asking price for 2022 Cease, teams give offers fair for 2023 Cease. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Sports Guy said: We understand but just because it’s what you want, doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. We just went through a rebuild and wanted the same thing. We all get it. We just don’t care. Wait, you know who the Sox are going to get in a few years for the bums we get for Cease now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 45 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I don’t think any team starting both Madrigal (3B) and Lopez (2B) would be a team in competition, with the importance of offense in the modern game. Losing that much power at a power position like 3B would be rough. The team would have to be stacked at many other positions. Noone is saying start both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Which is a statement that still ignores that 2023 happened. Asking price for 2022 Cease, teams give offers fair for 2023 Cease. Fair then I hope Getz just says who cares let’s keep him. Why trade him for guys who have worse ceilings than he does. How does that make us better? How does fair help us short or long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Jerksticks said: it’s not ridiculous to want 2 guys in return. 2 bad ass unproven young guys. Sounds like Mayo and Cowser to me. Cease had one great season in 2022. He did not have a good season in 2023. I am not sure if he is proven Cy Young type of a guy. He could very well have Jack Flaherty type of a career. Frankly, I think Cease is better but Jack Flaherty looked like a Frontline starter for a season. If the White Sox is asking for Cowser and Mayo, the Orioles will be smart to walk away. Edited December 30, 2023 by Snowy Demon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Just now, Snowy Demon said: Cease had one great season in 2022. He did not have a good season in 2023. I am not sure if he is proven Cy Young type of a guy. He could very well have Jack Flaherty type of a career. Frankly, I think Cease is better but Jack Flaherty looked like a Frontline starter for a season. Oh hell lets not go overboard with the comparisons here. Saying he had only 1 good season too? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Baron said: Oh hell lets not go overboard with the comparisons here. Saying he had only 1 good season too? https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/ceasedy01.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/flaheja01.shtml People can decide for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Maybe I'm the only one but I have no problem with what Getz is doing. First there's definitely an epidemic of non aggressive GMs in major league baseball. Even the aggressive ones *cough cough* Atlanta are making very minimally impactful moves. Maybe they can't meet the sales price for Cease. So what? Who's fault is that? We have the market cornered with the best asset available with 2 years in his contract. If these teams want to trade for Chris Sale with his arm about to fall off all the power to them. They'll have to answer to their owners why they got bounced out of the playoffs in the first round. Keep the asking price high because the prices for non impactful pitchers is high too. Let them make the mistakes and wait for the desperation to set it. May take it to the trade deadline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 19 minutes ago, Jerksticks said: Exactly. People overthinking it trying to decide “value” like some kind of Keith Law type. We’re trading the proven durable cy young type guy on a ridiculous contract. it’s not ridiculous to want 2 guys in return. 2 bad ass unproven young guys. Sounds like Mayo and Cowser to me. Coby Mayo won’t be in a Cease trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Just now, Snowy Demon said: https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/ceasedy01.shtml https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/flaheja01.shtml People can decide for themselves. Yeah they can and it gave me a laugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said: Cease had one great season in 2022. He did not have a good season in 2023. I am not sure if he is proven Cy Young type of a guy. He could very well have Jack Flaherty type of a career. Frankly, I think Cease is better but Jack Flaherty looked like a Frontline starter for a season. If the White Sox is asking for Cowser and Mayo, the Orioles will be smart to walk away. So Top Ten in accumulated fWAR for pitchers over a rolling three year period sounds pretty decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frobby Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 19 minutes ago, FT35 said: Those kinds of trades typically involve a MLer from a position of surplus for a MLer of a different position of need. This is definitely not one of those trades. This is a proven, elite, controllable MLB talent in exchange for guys we hope turn out to be as good as or better than Cease in a couple years. Essentially, you’re agreeing to get fleeced for the next couple years by giving up a top talent for nothing that will help you anytime soon. The hope is the return is worth waiting for. For Orioles fans, our trade of Erik Bedard in 2007 comes to mind. Bedard had two years of control remaining, and was coming off two excellent years, the latter of which yielded a 146 ERA+. Our GM Andy MacPhail spent the entire winter shopping Bedard and finally in early February landed a package that included Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, George Sherrill and two others. Bedard was very good for the Mariners but couldn’t stay healthy for more than a half-season at a time. Meanwhile, Jones and Tillman became anchors of the Orioles’ playoff teams of 2012, 2014, and 2016, and Sherrill had an all star appearance before we traded him away. It turned out to be a very lopsided deal in Baltimore’s favor. I don’t think Cease’s stock is as high as Bedard’s was then, since he’s coming off a mediocre season rather than his best one. Thus, he won’t get a return that rivals what Bedard got us. But, he should yield two good future pieces and maybe something more. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Coby Mayo won’t be in a Cease trade Or any trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 29 minutes ago, Jerksticks said: Exactly. People overthinking it trying to decide “value” like some kind of Keith Law type. We’re trading the proven durable cy young type guy on a ridiculous contract. it’s not ridiculous to want 2 guys in return. 2 bad ass unproven young guys. Sounds like Mayo and Cowser to me. Is it ridiculous for us to think we can get Cease for Tyler Wells, Norby and Max Wagner? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Demon Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, Baron said: Maybe I'm the only one but I have no problem with what Getz is doing. First there's definitely an epidemic of non aggressive GMs in major league baseball. Even the aggressive ones *cough cough* Atlanta are making very minimally impactful moves. Maybe they can't meet the sales price for Cease. So what? Who's fault is that? We have the market cornered with the best asset available with 2 years in his contract. If these teams want to trade for Chris Sale with his arm about to fall off all the power to them. They'll have to answer to their owners why they got bounced out of the playoffs in the first round. Keep the asking price high because the prices for non impactful pitchers is high too. Let them make the mistakes and wait for the desperation to set it. May take it to the trade deadline. Playoff in MLB is random and luck. 2023 had 2 teams barely made the playoffs got to The World Series. No one can reliably build for random and luck. People can argue about this, but no one can make valid case for a certain types of teams win in playoffs. This is same for NHL. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 https://x.com/alexfast8/status/1741214922007097646?s=46&t=G3On-_LleGmZce-r3ClVZA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Whatever happens now, if he goes to the Orioles, it's going to end up with a 2nd UCL surgery just out of spite...just like the same fate if the Sox hold onto him too long and push their luck to the TDL. Not that Dylan deserves it in any way shape or form, but just because of the cursed nature of this franchise and owner. The Sox have lost so much talent from where the team was in July 2021 that it's a once every 25-30 year cataclysm of bad moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 49 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: Posting a self serving tweet doesn't make it true. A for effort tho It's not as if he's an authority on anything either. Josh Nelson saying it on Twitter is as meaningful as me saying the opposite. Neither of us are in the know. Being a wanna be somebody online doesn't gain you any more credibility either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 12 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said: Playoff in MLB is random and luck. 2023 had 2 teams barely made the playoffs got to The World Series. No one can reliably build for random and luck. People can argue about this, but no one can make valid case for a certain types of teams win in playoffs. This is same for NHL. No doubt..any of these moves are for improving your chances and improving your margin for error. But it’s all about whose hot, whose healthy and who gets the most luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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