caulfield12 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Let’s not forget Kyle Gibson averaged 2.5-2.6 fWAR the last three years. That hasn’t been replaced, either. Kimbrel vs. Bautista will be a 3-5 net loss swing alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: The thing that concerns me most with Bradish and Rodriguez are their workloads. Both guys pitched a lot more innings in 2023 than they did in 2022. Not sure how that will impact them going forward. Might not be a factor at all, but who knows. That’s why I think a guy like Cease fits them, you know he’s durable and will always take the ball so they can give other guys breaks if needed. I worry about Rodriguez simply because he throws so hard and guys who throw that hard seem to end up with TJ surgery. But he’s a big dude and showed zero signs of slowing down last year. Also, we don’t really know how many more innings he truly threw in 2023 vs 2022 because he did a lot of side work and stuff like that during his rehab. I know what the actual totals say but he threw more in 2022 than what those numbers tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Who do you want in return from Baltimore? I’d rather have a return of Mayo + Bradfield + Povich than Westburg + Kjerstad ++. If mayo is truly untouchable then give me Cowser + Bradfield + Beavers + Povich. But I’d still prefer Jones + Hampton + a couple in the Yankees top 10-20 over that last Orioles package. I certainly don’t think that last Orioles package is a great deal for the Sox but I could live with it and I like that they’re all younger guys than these 24/25 year olds that are continually floated out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: I’d rather have a return of Mayo + Bradfield + Povich than Westburg + Kjerstad ++. If mayo is truly untouchable then give me Cowser + Bradfield + Beavers + Povich. But I’d still prefer Jones + Hampton + a couple in the Yankees top 10-20 over that last Orioles package. I certainly don’t think that last Orioles package is a great deal for the Sox but I could live with it and I like that they’re all younger guys than these 24/25 year olds that are continually floated out there. Your expectations for a trade are completely over the top. You just aren’t dealing in reality. This is what James is trying to tell you and he’s right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: Your expectations for a trade are completely over the top. You just aren’t dealing in reality. This is what James is trying to tell you and he’s right. Fine then Sox hold on to him. I’m not accepting a package right now that is valued at substantially lower than what the Sox got for Jose Quintana in 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 And for the record, the package of Mayo + Bradfield + Povich is on par with the package the Sox received for Quintana in 2017. Yes, Quintana had an extra 0.33 seasons of team control but I’d argue cost efficient starters are in even greater demand today than they were in 2017 given the rule changes since then (specifically the luxury tax rules) and overall inflation of player salaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (I’m waiting for @Sports Guyto argue that the Mayo package is substantially better than the Q return -it’s not- or that Q was a much better pitcher than Cease- he wasn’t) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: And for the record, the package of Mayo + Bradfield + Povich is on par with the package the Sox received for Quintana in 2017. Yes, Quintana had an extra 0.33 seasons of team control but I’d argue cost efficient starters are in even greater demand today than they were in 2017 given the rule changes since then (specifically the luxury tax rules) and overall inflation of player salaries. Didn't Q have an extra 1.5 years? I thought he was traded with 3 full seasons left. Edit: Baseball Ref confirms: yes, he had over 3 years of control left. The remainder of 2017 and then 2018-2020. Edited January 19 by Bob Sacamano 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: And for the record, the package of Mayo + Bradfield + Povich is on par with the package the Sox received for Quintana in 2017. Yes, Quintana had an extra 0.33 seasons of team control but I’d argue cost efficient starters are in even greater demand today than they were in 2017 given the rule changes since then (specifically the luxury tax rules) and overall inflation of player salaries. Eloy was a far better prospect than Mayo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Didn't Q have an extra 1.5 years? I thought he was traded with 3 full seasons left. Edit: baseball ref confirm: yes, he had over 3 years of control left. The remainder of 2017 and then 2018-2020. Ah, I was thinking he was a FA after 2019 but you’re right that he had another option year in 2020 that the cubs would have done better not picking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Eloy was a far better prospect than Mayo. Easily. And Cease was a far better prospect at the time than Enrique Bradfield too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 32 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: There isn’t a team in baseball that has even 4 starters better than Kremer (and I’m not a big Kremer fan) and Means has had a lot of success. What he is post TJ surgery we don’t know. But if Means can get back to where he was and Kremer continues to be solid, they will have a front 4 better than most teams. That said, they still lack that third guy you need in the playoffs and it may be asking a lot for Kremer to be as good and Means to come back strong. I would say 3/5 of the rotation is a question mark but you have history with 2 of those guys that suggests they should be fine. And Bradish and GRod can easily pitch well enough where you don’t need “historical offensive performances”. That’s completely over the top. Are you actually saying Dean Kremer is the best #4 starter in baseball? I’m sorry, but that’s an absolutely terrible take. And you have by far the worst #3 starter of any real competitor. You aren’t living in reality if you believe this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Sports Guy said: They do need more and I don’t necessarily disagree with what you are saying but while both of the top guys are inexperienced, there is very little to say they are taking some sort of a step back. In fact, GRod should be a lot better overall and Bradish has been excellent for 1.5 years, so there isn’t much in his stats that say you expect him to be worse. I want a true #3 or better guy and one more legit BP arm. What was Bradish’s ERA vs. his xERA? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 58 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Dean Kremer 3.6 career fWAR John Means 3.3 fWAR last four seasons combined Grayson Rodriguez 1.8 fWAR Tyler Wells 2.4 fWAR Total=11.1 fWAR Dylan Cease over just the last THREE years 12.6 fWAR HAHAHAHAHA My god…Canfield with an absolute kill shot here! The entire Hangout is now in shambles! 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 12 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Eloy was a far better prospect than Mayo. I think people are sleeping on Mayo here, but I’m probably his biggest fan on our board. He’s got a bit more Kris Bryant in him than many people realize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 The same arguments get recycled every few days in this thread. I’m sure the insults will start up shortly. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Just pulled up an old article after the Sox traded for Cease in 2017. That trade gave them 9 MLB top 100 prospects at the time lol. But Orioles fans are certain they have a very long contention window playing in a far tougher AL East. Ok. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 Guys, don’t let the Orioles fans fool you. They are nervous about the rotation, but don’t want to seem desperate. Definitely don’t point out that Fangraphs projects their starters to put the 25th most WAR in baseball next year as it is especially triggering for them. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Guys, don’t let the Orioles fans fool you. They are nervous about the rotation, but don’t want to seem desperate. Definitely don’t point out that Fangraphs projects their starters to put the 25th most WAR in baseball next year as it is especially triggering for them. They laugh at the thought of missing the playoffs this year but I can easily see a path to that happening with the way the team is currently constructed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 11 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: They laugh at the thought of missing the playoffs this year but I can easily see a path to that happening with the way the team is currently constructed. They will be fine as long as they lead the majors in hitting with RISP. I’m willing to bet they won’t be nearly 30 pct better than the Yankees this year in that situation. Edited January 19 by fathom 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Thank god Orioles Hangout has moved on to Luzardo as their primary trade target. They’re debating the value of Santander in a trade for Luzardo lol. Good luck with that exercise fellas. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 This is what I imagine the phone calls are between Getz and elias. Getz: Kjerstad Elias: phone hangs up Elias: Ortiz Getz: phone hangs up Getz: cowser Elias: phone hangs up Elias: Kjerstad Getz: yes Elias: you didn't let me finish. Kjerstad home run ball and ortiz Getz: phone hangs up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 20 minutes ago, fathom said: They will be fine as long as they lead the majors in hitting with RISP. I’m willing to bet they won’t be nearly 30 pct better than the Yankees this year in that situation. And there will be zero regression from anyone, especially the younger guys. And Kimbrell will totally make up for the loss of Bautista. It could happen................... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Thank god Orioles Hangout has moved on to Luzardo as their primary trade target. They’re debating the value of Santander in a trade for Luzardo lol. Good luck with that exercise fellas. I’m not even going to bother to look at that site but I truly hope their fans aren’t this clueless. A 29 year old Santander making $11.7 million in 2024 is about the last player the Marlins would want included in the return for Luzardo, or any of their players. Edited January 19 by WhiteSox2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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