White Sox bring Mike Clevinger back, pending physical

[Paulie4Pres]

3 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Yep - aware of all of that.

I guess my question is if other teams saw on-field red flags, not just off-field red flags... but I suppose that doesn't matter at this point, really.

Every other team in the MLB came to the conclusion that what he contributed on the field wasn't valuable enough to overlook the off the field s%*# and the baggage that comes with him. Except our White Sox, apparently. How this signing isn't just another indictment on this organization's professionalism and decision making, I don't know.

[JoeC]

1 minute ago, Paulie4Pres said:

Every other team in the MLB came to the conclusion that what he contributed on the field wasn't valuable enough to overlook the off the field s%*# and the baggage that comes with him. Except our White Sox, apparently. How this signing isn't just another indictment on this organization's professionalism and decision making, I don't know.

It absolutely is another indictment on this organization.

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Nardiwashere said:

I get someone being upset/not liking him due to the allegations.  At the same time, I feel like the reactions to him are very extreme.  Someone like Aroldis Chapman had more concrete allegations and when the Cubs had him, it was all "Well, sometimes athletes are unsavory characters.  Theo wants to win" type vibes. 

I don't know what Clevinger did or didn't do.  I do know that they had him around the team for a season.  I find it hard to believe that they'd bring him back if it was as black and white as people on the outside act. 

I don't personally like the guy but get some innings out of him, hope he's good.  Trade him for a piece if he does well. 

Can't help but think that a lot of the people saying they aren't fans anymore or they want the team to move are being a little performative.  

This is a very reasonable take. 

[Paulie4Pres]

2 minutes ago, JoeC said:

It absolutely is another indictment on this organization.

I mean, for a subset of fans here, it's clearly not. It's amazing that there are people that, when he was signed, didn't ask themselves the most obvious question. Why did he not receive a single offer from any other team in the MLB?

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Nardiwashere said:

I get someone being upset/not liking him due to the allegations.  At the same time, I feel like the reactions to him are very extreme.  Someone like Aroldis Chapman had more concrete allegations and when the Cubs had him, it was all "Well, sometimes athletes are unsavory characters.  Theo wants to win" type vibes. 

I don't know what Clevinger did or didn't do.  I do know that they had him around the team for a season.  I find it hard to believe that they'd bring him back if it was as black and white as people on the outside act. 

I don't personally like the guy but get some innings out of him, hope he's good.  Trade him for a piece if he does well. 

Can't help but think that a lot of the people saying they aren't fans anymore or they want the team to move are being a little performative.  

There are plenty of horrible people in baseball that I want the Sox no where near.

[Milkman delivers]

2 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said:

I mean, for a subset of fans here, it's clearly not. It's amazing that there are people that, when he was signed, didn't ask themselves the most obvious question. Why did he not receive a single offer from any other team in the MLB?

Again, why does that matter to the Sox? They are in a unique position in that Clevinger was actually on their team last year. He pitched well and he seemingly didn’t cause any clubhouse issues.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Milkman delivers said:

Again, why does that matter to the Sox? They are in a unique position in that Clevinger was actually on their team last year. He pitched well and he seemingly didn’t cause any clubhouse issues.

So well that they paid all those guys more money earlier in the winter instead of this. He must have been great.

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, Paulie4Pres said:

I mean, for a subset of fans here, it's clearly not. It's amazing that there are people that, when he was signed, didn't ask themselves the most obvious question. Why did he not receive a single offer from any other team in the MLB?

Because he's not generally regarded as a good dude, was seeking a 2 year deal and her peripherals were far worse than his actual results in 2023? 

The Sox had him in the clubhouse for the entirety of 2023. If Getz feels like he isn't a problem, the current version of Clevinger probably isn't.  Pretty sure he's literally been mentioned as being a good guy to have around by people around the org.  Now that take for what it is worth, but still worth mentioning.

I am not really all that concerned that other teams didn't want him.  Guys that have legitimate upside and no baggage sign for 1/$12-15M deals, not 1/$3M deals. The former was obviously out of JR's budget this season. While its a bummer Clevinger may not return a ton - if anything - via trade, he will eat innings that need to be eaten.  If he happens to be really productive, teams do silly things for a short term cheap pitching at the deadline.  I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Clevinger return something if he repeats (at a lower cost) or improved upon his 2023.

That said, I am not trying to convince people to like the dude.  Your opinions on him have been earned. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Because he's not generally regarded as a good dude, was seeking a 2 year deal and her peripherals were far worse than his actual results in 2023? 

The Sox had him in the clubhouse for the entirety of 2023. If Getz feels like he isn't a problem, the current version of Clevinger probably isn't.  Pretty sure he's literally been mentioned as being a good guy to have around by people around the org.  Now that take for what it is worth, but still worth mentioning.

I am not really all that concerned that other teams didn't want him.  Guys that have legitimate upside and no baggage sign for 1/$12-15M deals, not 1/$3M deals. The former was obviously out of JR's budget this season. While its a bummer Clevinger may not return a ton - if anything - via trade, he will eat innings that need to be eaten.  If he happens to be really productive, teams do silly things for a short term cheap pitching at the deadline.  I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Clevinger return something if he repeats (at a lower cost) or improved upon his 2023.

That said, I am not trying to convince people to like the dude.  Your opinions on him have been earned. 

Yeah, who is anyone here to doubt the judgements of Chris Getz and the Chicago White Sox when it comes to high character clubhouses and leadership!

Clevinger proved last year that he's not netting anything - I know the circumstances aren't 100% the same, but the reality is he's an asshat and he stinks. Even if we say that the accusation isn't 100% true, what is true is he broke Covid protocol when his highly respected and well liked manager had a compromised immune system. I can't imagine he's a good influence on a single young baseball player; maybe you want to argue he's not as bad as it seems, but there's no one arguing he's a positive influence.

Edited April 2 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Milkman delivers]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So well that they paid all those guys more money earlier in the winter instead of this. He must have been great.

That doesn’t change what I said. I understand that a lot of you guys don’t want him on the team, but it is abundantly clear that the move makes sense from a win/loss perspective.

You guys can just say you don’t want him because you don’t like him. Asking why every other team didn’t make the move has no bearing on why the Sox did. He improves their chances of winning a few more games this year. That is the answer to why they signed him. End of story.

Other teams may be, and likely are, avoiding him because they fear what type of negative influence he could have in the clubhouse. The Sox are in the unique position of knowing exactly how he was in the clubhouse last season, and they apparently don’t think it was negative enough to keep him away.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Milkman delivers said:

That doesn’t change what I said. I understand that a lot of you guys don’t want him on the team, but it is abundantly clear that the move makes sense from a win/loss perspective.

You guys can just say you don’t want him because you don’t like him. Asking why every other team didn’t make the move has no bearing on why the Sox did. He improves their chances of winning a few more games this year. That is the answer to why they signed him. End of story.

Other teams may be, and likely are, avoiding him because they fear what type of negative influence he could have in the clubhouse. The Sox are in the unique position of knowing exactly how he was in the clubhouse last season, and they apparently don’t think it was negative enough to keep him away.

It goes to the Sox only being willing to take hom back if he was being paid less than Martin Maldanado with more recent information than anyone else in baseball.  They don't think a lot of him or they would have paid him what his stats say.

[WhiteSox2023]

29 minutes ago, 4OCS said:

Just in case anyone missed what I am referencing here. SSHM was in fact claiming that MLB mandated therapy for Clevinger, which is clearly not the case, since MLB can not mandate therapy or “management of domestic violence proclivities” in a case where the player was found to be not in violation. 

I believe SSHM may have been referring to this excerpt, assuming a recommendation was made for Clevinger by the joint treatment boards, but it doesn’t state that one was made.

As part of his path forward, Mr. Clevinger has voluntarily agreed to submit to evaluations by the joint treatment boards under the collectively bargained policies, and to comply with any of the boards’ recommendations. MLB will continue to make support services available to Mr. Clevinger, his family, and other individuals involved in the allegations.

[Nardiwashere]

Keep in mind this offseason was not like a normal offseason. The two best SPs on the market didn't sign until Spring Training was well underway.  

It is is possible no one wanted him.  It's also possible he was asking for too much and teams moved on and made other signings and he ended up accepting the Sox offer.  Michael Lorenzen doesn't have any crazy red flags, right?  Did no one want him?

[Milkman delivers]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It goes to the Sox only being willing to take hom back if he was being paid less than Martin Maldanado with more recent information than anyone else in baseball.  They don't think a lot of him or they would have paid him what his stats say.

True. But they thought enough of him to bring him back at all in order to improve their chances of winning a few more games.

Edited April 2 by Milkman delivers

[WestEddy]

10 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

That doesn’t change what I said. I understand that a lot of you guys don’t want him on the team, but it is abundantly clear that the move makes sense from a win/loss perspective.

You guys can just say you don’t want him because you don’t like him. Asking why every other team didn’t make the move has no bearing on why the Sox did. He improves their chances of winning a few more games this year. That is the answer to why they signed him. End of story.

Other teams may be, and likely are, avoiding him because they fear what type of negative influence he could have in the clubhouse. The Sox are in the unique position of knowing exactly how he was in the clubhouse last season, and they apparently don’t think it was negative enough to keep him away.

I don't really think Clevenger makes any difference beyond pulling 50 innings away from the bullpen (meaning he pitches 150 instead of some lesser dude's 100), keeping Nastrini out of the majors for a month, and maybe making eventual decisions later in the year easier (ramping down Crochet, trading/cutting Soroka and Flexen). 

With Eloy possibly down, they need a bat. 

[kitekrazy]

 I'm gonna go with teams avoided because of possible health issues than character issues.

Someone will always bring up id he does well trade him.  Well they seem to ignore this whole thread and assume other organization are naive enough to give value.   That's just our fanbase mentality of habitual losing.   

[Paulie4Pres]

Imagine trusting that this front office made the right decision by signing a guy the rest of the MLB passed on. Lol.

It's either incompetence, or desperation. Or, probably both.

[ChiSox59]

26 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah, who is anyone here to doubt the judgements of Chris Getz and the Chicago White Sox when it comes to high character clubhouses and leadership!

Clevinger proved last year that he's not netting anything - I know the circumstances aren't 100% the same, but the reality is he's an asshat and he stinks. Even if we say that the accusation isn't 100% true, what is true is he broke Covid protocol when his highly respected and well liked manager had a compromised immune system. I can't imagine he's a good influence on a single young baseball player; maybe you want to argue he's not as bad as it seems, but there's no one arguing he's a positive influence.

I literally said “that that for what it’s worth”. I agree the Sox aren’t exactly the gold standard here. I don’t think anything I said is unfair. Some people really hate Clevinger and he’s earned that. 

[4OCS]

28 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I believe SSHM may have been referring to this excerpt, assuming a recommendation was made for Clevinger by the joint treatment boards, but it doesn’t state that one was made.

 

 

Well, yeah that was what he was referring to, but that is not MLB mandated therapy, of which he was demanding an account from the Sox. Even if Clevinger had been mandated therapy, which he was not, as that release clearly states “the office of commissioner will not be imposing discipline on Clevinger in relation to these allegations,” the  Sox would be in violation of the policy by addressing it, or hold Clevinger to it. From the policy:

 

“Players who fail to comply are subject to discipline from the Commissioner. All information is to be kept confidential.”

Therefore, the Sox would be in violation of the policy if it were to meet SSHM’s demands, which I would argue makes his position unreasonable, even if Clevinger wasn’t cleared, which of course, he was in fact cleared

 

Edited April 2 by 4OCS

[WestEddy]

7 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Someone will always bring up id he does well trade him.  Well they seem to ignore this whole thread and assume other organization are naive enough to give value.   That's just our fanbase mentality of habitual losing.   

The only thing we'll get in a Clevenger trade is not paying him the final $1 million of his contract. I'd be surprised if they even got back a AAA utility infielder for him. 

At this point, I'm pretty numb from the first 4 games. I don't like Clevenger, and don't want him on this team. But if signing this lunkhead creates a softer landing for Nastrini, and creates any stability in the rotation over the course of the season, fine. I can just ignore him, and hope he's availing himself of the support MLB has promised to help him grow up. 

I'm disappointed in the Sox for going this route. Zack Greinke and Johnny Cueto are still unsigned. 

[Milkman delivers]

6 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said:

Imagine trusting that this front office made the right decision by signing a guy the rest of the MLB passed on. Lol.

It's either incompetence, or desperation. Or, probably both.

It is certainly desperation. I don’t trust this organization to do much of anything right. But Clevinger is better than most of our current rotation without a doubt.

[4OCS]

12 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said:

Imagine trusting that this front office made the right decision by signing a guy the rest of the MLB passed on. Lol.

It's either incompetence, or desperation. Or, probably both.

I’m failing to see how signing an above average starting pitcher for three million is incompetent, from a purely baseball standpoint. Buying low is normally considered a good practice in player acquisition, no? The only real argument being made by anyone here is that the Sox shouldn’t sign someone that they dislike

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, 4OCS said:

I’m failing to see how signing an above average starting pitcher for three million is incompetent, from a purely baseball standpoint. Buying low is normally considered a good practice in player acquisition, no? The only real argument being made by anyone here is that the Sox shouldn’t sign someone that they dislike

Above average is carrying a lot of weight in this post.

[Dick Allen]

25 minutes ago, 4OCS said:

Well, yeah that was what he was referring to, but that is not MLB mandated therapy, of which he was demanding an account from the Sox. Even if Clevinger had been mandated therapy, which he was not, as that release clearly states “the office of commissioner will not be imposing discipline on Clevinger in relation to these allegations,” the  Sox would be in violation of the policy by addressing it, or hold Clevinger to it. From the policy:

 

“Players who fail to comply are subject to discipline from the Commissioner. All information is to be kept confidential.”

Therefore, the Sox would be in violation of the policy if it were to meet SSHM’s demands, which I would argue makes his position unreasonable, even if Clevinger wasn’t cleared, which of course, he was in fact cleared

 

Then how would you know he didn't have therapy? As far as the signing goes, what they paid for him, and the need for pitching indicates most teams had some issues. Normally a signing like this would piss me off, but I'm totally neutral now. It's all about the culture. LMAO.

Edited April 2 by Dick Allen

[4OCS]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Above average is carrying a lot of weight in this post.

Not sure what you mean.

Even a well below average starting pitcher gets well north of three million these days, at any rate