bmags Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 I’m struggling to care about anything except winning the draft lottery. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 The Sox already committing to another year of Taylor in the bullpen is a disaster. Insane the Sox did not/have not looked into trading Taylor if he's purely a bullpen arm. What a waste of an arm, and I know some will point to Crochet's shift but that's just not reasonable to expect of someone. Taylor will be 24 all of next season. I don't buy for a second the Sox think he can start because no way they waste all this time on his starter development just so they can get some quality relief innings out of him. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 7 minutes ago, poppysox said: The lack of 100 million dollar contracts doesn't bother me. I understand the negative impact of giving a hugh percentage of yearly payroll to one player can have if they go south. Heyward and Dunn are examples of contracts becoming burdensome for the Chicago teams. My complaint is that Jerry is not spending to the level our fans deserve on a reasonable total yearly payroll, say 175-200 million. If you refuse to go over $100M, you’re settling for the Andrew Benintendi’s of the world and we have all seen how well that one has gone so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: If you refuse to go over $100M, you’re settling for the Andrew Benintendi’s of the world and we have all seen how well that one has gone so far If you refuse to have an annual payroll of 150-200, we are settling for a losing record year after year. Walk before you run. IMO, we need to become a competitive team before we add the 1 or 2 100 + type of players that can put us over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 23 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The Sox already committing to another year of Taylor in the bullpen is a disaster. Insane the Sox did not/have not looked into trading Taylor if he's purely a bullpen arm. What a waste of an arm, and I know some will point to Crochet's shift but that's just not reasonable to expect of someone. Taylor will be 24 all of next season. I don't buy for a second the Sox think he can start because no way they waste all this time on his starter development just so they can get some quality relief innings out of him. It was pretty obvious to me he wasn't going to start once they stuck him out there, but to those it wasn't obvious to before, it should be now. They oversold us on Taylor as a starter, and they didn't actually believe it was going to happen because of his measureables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 25 minutes ago, bmags said: I’m struggling to care about anything except winning the draft lottery. For Sox fans, this is all that matters for years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 9 minutes ago, poppysox said: If you refuse to have an annual payroll of 150-200, we are settling for a losing record year after year. Walk before you run. IMO, we need to become a competitive team before we add the 1 or 2 100 + type of players that can put us over the top. But we need to play & develop the young players before we will ever have a path to become competitive. I’m not against adding cheap vets where we don’t have good options, but those spots are somewhat limited. Where would you like to see us add and which players do you have in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Deep Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 47 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: But we need to play & develop the young players before we will ever have a path to become competitive. I’m not against adding cheap vets where we don’t have good options, but those spots are somewhat limited. Where would you like to see us add and which players do you have in mind? RF LF 1B Starting Pitching Relief Pitching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 9 minutes ago, 2Deep said: RF LF 1B Starting Pitching Relief Pitching We’ve added a cheap SP and will likely add another. I think they add RP or two, one who might be closer materiel. I fully expect a semi meaningful 1B addition. The OF is a bit challenging at the moment. If you can’t dump Benintendi and you hold onto Robert, then you really only have RF to work with and I’m not sure I want to block Baldwin after he put up 118 wRC+ over the 2H of the season. Who do you have in mind in free agency for RF? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 (edited) 2 hours ago, poppysox said: The lack of 100 million dollar contracts doesn't bother me. I understand the negative impact of giving a hugh percentage of yearly payroll to one player can have if they go south. Heyward and Dunn are examples of contracts becoming burdensome for the Chicago teams. My complaint is that Jerry is not spending to the level our fans deserve on a reasonable total yearly payroll, say 175-200 million. $100 million dollar contracts aren’t even really big anymore. Only to frugal teams like the Sox and A’s. Also, the Sox signed Adam Dunn for 4-years and $56 million. Jason Heyward’s contract with the Cubs was 8-years and $184 million. Totally different ballparks between those two contracts. Edited December 8 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 If Taylor is developed into an elite closer, I wouldn't be complaining 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: But we need to play & develop the young players before we will ever have a path to become competitive. I’m not against adding cheap vets where we don’t have good options, but those spots are somewhat limited. Where would you like to see us add and which players do you have in mind? Pitching, pitching, and pitching. We are in an era where even the starters only go 5 innings. How many games did we lose after leading after 5 or 6 innings? It seemed like every other game. Position players are OK for now, once Montgomery gets his RF spot. I would take a flyer on a Max Kepler type until Montgomery gets promoted. I don't hate Benintendi like most here do, but Baldwin in left would be an interesting experiment. Our new coaching staff might want to consider how using the 3 catchers might be worked out. I already named 7 players who can be considered, along with dozens more. There is just know reason to not win some games while developing the kids. By 2029, the kids are going to be getting expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 16 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: $100 million dollar contracts aren’t even really big anymore. Only to frugal teams like the Sox and A’s. Also, the Sox signed Adam Dunn for 4-years and $56 million. Jason Heyward’s contract with the Cubs was 8-years and $184 million. Totally different ballparks between those two contracts. At the time, Dunn and Heyward's contracts were considered big. I'll bet you got the point. Benitendi's 5 X 15 isn't big by today's standards, but he drives hate on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 22 minutes ago, 46DidIt said: If Taylor is developed into an elite closer, I wouldn't be complaining "If" a lot of things happened, I wouldn't be complaining. If I got the winning powerball ticket I wouldn't be complaining either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaDoc Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 Taylor was out in 2023 recovering from TJ. 2024 he pitched 19 innings. 2025 he combined for 63.3 innings. How many innings would he advance to in 2025? If you say 100-120 and he averages 5 innings he makes 20-24 starts so he would be shut down late July or Aug? Of his 36 MLB appearances, only 5 were consecutive games. (On a positive note, he gave up no runs on the second night.) If you manage his appearances, I think you could get him to 100 innings unless he is proving to valuable as late inning guy in which case that is a good result as well. Is there a disconnect between his desire to start and the team thinking he will breakdown if his appearances are longer? I don't know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 11 minutes ago, BamaDoc said: Taylor was out in 2023 recovering from TJ. 2024 he pitched 19 innings. 2025 he combined for 63.3 innings. How many innings would he advance to in 2025? If you say 100-120 and he averages 5 innings he makes 20-24 starts so he would be shut down late July or Aug? Of his 36 MLB appearances, only 5 were consecutive games. (On a positive note, he gave up no runs on the second night.) If you manage his appearances, I think you could get him to 100 innings unless he is proving to valuable as late inning guy in which case that is a good result as well. Is there a disconnect between his desire to start and the team thinking he will breakdown if his appearances are longer? I don't know. If this was really the issue, there was no reason to rush him to the majors then. In an era of meaningless baseball, you start him in the minors and don't start his clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 11 minutes ago, BamaDoc said: Taylor was out in 2023 recovering from TJ. 2024 he pitched 19 innings. 2025 he combined for 63.3 innings. How many innings would he advance to in 2025? If you say 100-120 and he averages 5 innings he makes 20-24 starts so he would be shut down late July or Aug? Of his 36 MLB appearances, only 5 were consecutive games. (On a positive note, he gave up no runs on the second night.) If you manage his appearances, I think you could get him to 100 innings unless he is proving to valuable as late inning guy in which case that is a good result as well. Is there a disconnect between his desire to start and the team thinking he will breakdown if his appearances are longer? I don't know. The Sox have been pretty clear with how they were going to handle Taylor. The 100 inning plateau, spread over 33 starts means they're throwing a bullpen game every 5. It makes perfect sense to bring Taylor along similar to the way they used Vasil this last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleAleSox Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 This is boring as hell so far. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 53 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: "If" a lot of things happened, I wouldn't be complaining. If I got the winning powerball ticket I wouldn't be complaining either. You're obviously easy to please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 1 hour ago, 46DidIt said: If Taylor is developed into an elite closer, I wouldn't be complaining An elite closer is most valuable to a team in the playoffs. A great closer on a bad team is almost a worthless player to have. Not only that, but an above average starter is worth more to the team and the market than a great closer, but a great closer might nab you a little more at a deadline and be easier to trade. That I would concede. Throwing in the towel on him as a starter is a huge loss for the organization. Most closer tenures of dominance are pretty short lived, and even truly dominant starters have ups and downs that move them through 4-5-6 organizations in a career. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 28 minutes ago, WestEddy said: The Sox have been pretty clear with how they were going to handle Taylor. The 100 inning plateau, spread over 33 starts means they're throwing a bullpen game every 5. It makes perfect sense to bring Taylor along similar to the way they used Vasil this last season. They said last off-season that they weren't eliminating his future as a starter, and we're taking it year to year.... but they were clear he was going to be a bullpen guy this year? When did that happen before today? You can spin this however you'd like. It's a large blow to this teams future with Taylor being destined for the bullpen long term. He was one of the few high level arms they had, and the other two are also facing significant challenges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, poppysox said: At the time, Dunn and Heyward's contracts were considered big. I'll bet you got the point. Benitendi's 5 X 15 isn't big by today's standards, but he drives hate on this site. Sure because he’s not good and no where close to earning his contract. If he was putting up 3+ WAR every year, no one would care much about his contract. Instead, he’s been worse than replacement level. 2023: 0.4 bWAR 2024: -0.8 bWAR 2025: 1.0 bWAR Edited December 8 by WhiteSox2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 4 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The Sox already committing to another year of Taylor in the bullpen is a disaster. Insane the Sox did not/have not looked into trading Taylor if he's purely a bullpen arm. What a waste of an arm, and I know some will point to Crochet's shift but that's just not reasonable to expect of someone. Taylor will be 24 all of next season. I don't buy for a second the Sox think he can start because no way they waste all this time on his starter development just so they can get some quality relief innings out of him. his value is going to increase. why would you trade him after a 5 ERA season when he's clearly much better than that? what's the rush? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 8 Author Share Posted December 8 (edited) 5 hours ago, poppysox said: The lack of 100 million dollar contracts doesn't bother me. I understand the negative impact of giving a hugh percentage of yearly payroll to one player can have if they go south. Heyward and Dunn are examples of contracts becoming burdensome for the Chicago teams. My complaint is that Jerry is not spending to the level our fans deserve on a reasonable total yearly payroll, say 175-200 million. It's not those. It's ones like Benintendi LaRoche M.Cabrera Rios Keuchel Danks Encarnacion Lynn...choosing the exactly wrong players for those mostly 2-3 year deals. Then those numbers add up to block other moves, or the Moncada/Jimenez/Robert extensions. Talent/character evaluation. Getting only 2/4 years from Grandal. Edited December 8 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 37 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Sure because he’s not good and no where close to earning his contract. If he was putting up 3+ WAR every year, no one would care much about his contract. Instead, he’s been worse than replacement level. 2023: 0.4 bWAR 2024: -0.8 bWAR 2025: 1.0 bWAR Disappointing but not terrible IMO. Injuries do happen. He got some big hits last year. Vaughn was crap until he was great for Milwaukee. I'm hoping the new coaches can unlock some of this talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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