elrockinMT Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 08:43 PM) People think of the word rebuilding as tearing the entire team apart and building through the minor league system. People think of retooling as tearing the entire team apart and building through the major league team. Most view the latter as inefficient. The problem with that scenario is that people assume that the two concepts are mutually exclusive. They are not. You can rebuild and retool at the same exact time. The White Sox did it in the 2007 season when they signed Pierzynski, Buehrle, and Dye to contract extensions. Those moves were much crazier than this move. I love this move. It's a very good value for a very solid pitcher who is just entering his prime. It's very likely that he will live up to the value of this contract. Beyond that, this move doesn't stop them from continuing a rebuild. As was mentioned elsewhere, it simply alludes to the idea that the Sox will trade other pieces as well and that Williams will not be in a hurry to do so. I have no problem with that either. It is frustrating as a fan because we have no idea what to expect at this point. Instead of being frustrated, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the ride at this point because I have no idea what the hell they are going to do. I have subscribed to this theory myself. In fact signing Quentin would be in the so called rebuilding concept IMO. Keep your good players while looking at some FA signings and potential minor league stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 03:58 PM) This is totally false. But this myth has evolved every year since, like, 2003. So whatever. Myth??? There are so many examples that have been posted on SoxTalk over the years (many by me), I'd consider it a total waste of time to repost them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 04:05 PM) I have subscribed to this theory myself. In fact signing Quentin would be in the so called rebuilding concept IMO. Keep your good players while looking at some FA signings and potential minor league stars. And how do you get these minor league stars? Hmm, by trading your valuable (aka GOOD) pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 04:13 PM) Myth??? There are so many examples that have been posted on SoxTalk over the years (many by me), I'd consider it a total waste of time to repost them. Stop. Keith Law does not pick on the White Sox. His specialty is the minor leagues. And the White Sox are as bad as it gets. He's just a dick about it sometimes. He's no different than Dan Berstein from the Score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I look at this as Chris Sale insurance. Now we have 300-400 quality innings from the left side. If we lost John we'd be looking at 100-200 with 200 looking like an impossibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 05:05 PM) Stop. Keith Law does not pick on the White Sox. His specialty is the minor leagues. And the White Sox are as bad as it gets. He's just a dick about it sometimes. He's no different than Dan Berstein from the Score. And Bernstein is despised by a large segment of sports fans in this city. People don't like snarky assholes even if they are telling the truth. Law was just saying all the same s*** we are: what the f*** are the Sox doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 04:05 PM) I have subscribed to this theory myself. In fact signing Quentin would be in the so called rebuilding concept IMO. Keep your good players while looking at some FA signings and potential minor league stars. That would be dumb. The White Sox are almost certainly not going to be competitive this year, Carlos Quentin has proven to be an inconsistent, injury prone power hitter who is a bad defensive player. He is not a building block and the White Sox, without another single move, will be able to field a competent outfield without him in it. The difference in value between Quentin and Danks is extreme. One is a run of the mill outfielder who will hit a few homers and not much more and the other is a bonafide #2 starting pitcher with the capabilities of being a #1. Beyond any of that, the White Sox have Viciedo waiting in the wings, so Quentin's presence is not a necessity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 05:34 PM) That would be dumb. The White Sox are almost certainly not going to be competitive this year, Carlos Quentin has proven to be an inconsistent, injury prone power hitter who is a bad defensive player. He is not a building block and the White Sox, without another single move, will be able to field a competent outfield without him in it. The difference in value between Quentin and Danks is extreme. One is a run of the mill outfielder who will hit a few homers and not much more and the other is a bonafide #2 starting pitcher with the capabilities of being a #1. Beyond any of that, the White Sox have Viciedo waiting in the wings, so Quentin's presence is not a necessity. With how much certainty can you say we're not going to be competitive this year? Stranger things have happened, like 2000, 2005 and 2008. All of those seasons came out of low or lowered expectations. I'm not going to Vegas and betting on it happening, but you can never completely count the Sox out of the AL Central race any season either. But yeah, Viciedo has to play everyday, period. Edited December 23, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Does someone want to tweet this to Cowley and ask him why Danks would re-sign if he hated Cooper so much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 05:14 PM) Does someone want to tweet this to Cowley and ask him why Danks would re-sign if he hated Cooper so much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 01:07 AM) With how much certainty can you say we're not going to be competitive this year? Stranger things have happened, like 2000, 2005 and 2008. All of those seasons came out of low or lowered expectations. I'm not going to Vegas and betting on it happening, but you can never completely count the Sox out of the AL Central race any season either. But yeah, Viciedo has to play everyday, period. If Dayan is a franchise type player like many thought he was, and we keep the rotation in tact the rest of the way and Dunn loses 25 pounds and Beckham gets his head out of his ass and Lexi has a bustout year, yes we could contend. There's no reason to totally tear the team apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 07:14 PM) Does someone want to tweet this to Cowley and ask him why Danks would re-sign if he hated Cooper so much? I love his spin job today. He totally didn't acknowledge it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 07:23 PM) If Dayan is a franchise type player like many thought he was, and we keep the rotation in tact the rest of the way and Dunn loses 25 pounds and Beckham gets his head out of his ass and Lexi has a bustout year, yes we could contend. There's no reason to totally tear the team apart. Alexei has already busted out. He's put up a 4.3 and a 4.9 fWAR the past 2 seasons. He isn't an issue at all. Edited December 23, 2011 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 07:23 PM) If Dayan is a franchise type player like many thought he was, and we keep the rotation in tact the rest of the way and Dunn loses 25 pounds and Beckham gets his head out of his ass and Lexi has a bustout year, yes we could contend. There's no reason to totally tear the team apart. So a team in the third largest market in the country needs that many different things to happen (you even left out Rios, etc) to contend in a division that doesn't feature any of the top 5 teams in the AL? Yeah, no reason at all to tear it apart. 80-82 it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 02:24 PM) The prime is much closer to 27-30. largely depends on weight class and styles. heavier weight classes rely less on athleticism and can be effective for longer, if you take everything from 106 to 160, you'll find most top pros are around 25-26. what confuses people is being able to separate a boxers peak skill-wise, versus peak popularity-wise. they are years apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 07:39 PM) I love his spin job today. He totally didn't acknowledge it Of course. I wouldn't even expect anything else. QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 07:45 PM) So a team in the third largest market in the country needs that many different things to happen (you even left out Rios, etc) to contend in a division that doesn't feature any of the top 5 teams in the AL? Yeah, no reason at all to tear it apart. 80-82 it is. Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 If Danks extended with the Sox for Coop, did Mark go to Miami for Ozzie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I don't think anyone is of the mindset that Danks re-signed with the sox because of Coop, the fact that he would re-up despite the fact that he supposedly doesn't get along with the man who's in charge of all pitching in the organization shows that there isn't exactly a major riff there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 09:37 PM) If Danks extended with the Sox for Coop, did Mark go to Miami for Ozzie? I don't think anybody said that. It just shows that Danks obviously doesn't hold a grudge against or dislike Cooper, which is what people have said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 09:37 PM) If Danks extended with the Sox for Coop, did Mark go to Miami for Ozzie? I'm sure the familiarity was a factor. But remember, the Sox didn't even offer Buehrle a contract, so technically he didn't pick the Marlins over the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 07:07 PM) With how much certainty can you say we're not going to be competitive this year? Stranger things have happened, like 2000, 2005 and 2008. All of those seasons came out of low or lowered expectations. I'm not going to Vegas and betting on it happening, but you can never completely count the Sox out of the AL Central race any season either. But yeah, Viciedo has to play everyday, period. I did clarify that, and with good reason - 2000 and 2008 did come out of nowhere. Most people were expecting good things in 2005, they just couldn't have imagined it was going to be as good as it was. And, with as bad as the Central really is - Detroit's the only team I can even consider to be "good" at this juncture, and there are a few things that can still go wrong with that team too, including Cabrera and Verlander having "down" years (4-6 WAR instead of 6-8 WAR) and Peralta and Avila coming back more towards a 2-3 WAR (in Peralta's case, about a 1-2 WAR)- it is anybody's division. I would say that this division will easily be the most difficult to predict top to bottom. So sure, if Konerko continues to hit well, Dunn comes back to an .850-.900 OPS, Rios puts up a .750-.800 OPS, De Aza and Viciedo play well, Beckham and Morel put up 2 WARs, Humber pitches well again, Sale is strong out of the rotation, Peavy and Floyd pitch well, Reed pitches as advertised, Frasor is even semi-effective...sure, this team could win the division. I'm not going to count on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Milkman, in a different thread, I mused that a couple ex Oz players have followed him to Miami. It was quickly pointed out that those players just took the highest contract offered. May have been the same with Danks. For an extra million or two I would even work for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/whitesox-ta...tm_medium=email Given that the Sox traded Sergio Santos and his team-friendly deal, why did the Sox turn around and sign John Danks to an extension? Former Mets GM Jim Duquette raised that question in a phone interview on Chicago Tribune Live today, saying that the Danks extension raised mixed signals about what the team is doing. Two things: First, I argued the Sox never were actually rebuilding. And second, no team should ever build around a relief pitcher, even one with a six-year, team-friendly contract. You build around starters and position players -- guys who can provide much more value. An elite season for a reliever is around the two-win mark. For a position player or pitcher, an elite player is worth five or more wins, roughly. Danks isn't elite, but he could very well be a three or four-win pitcher for each of the next five seasons. Santos, on the other hand, is very good. Maybe he'll be elite, but an elite Santos will be worth less than just a good Danks. And if Nestor Molina develops into a mid-rotation starter, he'll be worth more than Santos over the course of his six years of team control. Again, the White Sox, in dealing Santos, traded from a position of depth. That doesn't signal a rebuild. And, obviously, neither does the Danks extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Dec 22, 2011 -> 09:48 PM) I don't think anybody said that. It just shows that Danks obviously doesn't hold a grudge against or dislike Cooper, which is what people have said. And with the fact that Mark brought the offer back to the White Sox to try to get a contract offer, even if it was at a lower price, it shows Ozzie wasn't his first choice. And also to clarify, just Joe Cowley said there was a grudge. No one else made that crap up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 23, 2011 -> 07:10 AM) Milkman, in a different thread, I mused that a couple ex Oz players have followed him to Miami. It was quickly pointed out that those players just took the highest contract offered. May have been the same with Danks. For an extra million or two I would even work for you But there's no way to know that with Danks, as he had no ability to test the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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