Star Wars: The Last Jedi *SPOILERS* Thread

[TaylorStSox]

So what you are saying is you don't like mainstream movies? Because guess what, the main character is basically never dying. Hell even in Nolan's Batman series no character anyone cared about died (Rachel doesn't count, no one cared about that).

No, I like plenty of mainstream movies. I'm not a huge fan of comic book movies because most lack any substance. They're just spectacles no different than Transformers. I did like Winter Soldier because the human conflict was engaging. I enjoyed Thor Ragnorak because it knew what it was tonally, a comedy. Although, the scenes on Thor's home planet were ham-fisted and dragged the pace. I enjoyed Days of Future Past because The Sentinels were actually scary, it was creative as hell, there was real peril and Wolverine was humanized. GOTG 1 was good because it knew what it was and didn't take itself seriously. I felt the same way about Dead Pool. I can't be immersed in a movie like Civil War because, I mean, who really cares. Nobody is actually going to be hurt. There's no real danger. There's no tension. It's not like I ever actually believed any of them would hurt each other.

 

Back to the original point I was trying to make is that the Jedi/Sith were cool when they were mysterious. You imagined these characters to be space samurai. After I see them in action, that mystery is gone. Tornado Yoda and Drill Palpatine ruin it for me. Comparing the OT to this stuff, and comic book movies, is like comparing Seven Samurai to a kung fu movie. Sometimes things are better left to the imagination. Less is more in good filmmaking.

Edited December 17, 2017 by TaylorStSox

[caulfield12]

The tone and humor were completely off.

 

It’s like going from “dark/brooding” Bond/Bourne/Batman the last 10-15 years back to 60’s Sean Connery Bond.

 

Too jarring. It started with the idiotic face off between Poe and Hux and went downhill from there.

 

It wasn’t terrible, you had fan service in the appearances of Yoda and Luke’s melding with the force. The scenes with Like and Rey were fine, albeit predictable.

 

It just wasn’t in the same class as the other four...with the last one really being a remake. Rogue One was good, so 2/3 isn’t bad. I guess compared to Lucas’ 0/3 in the middle.

 

Somehow, they have to find a creative way to reboot the story and get audiences to care again. It needs a new director. There’s only so many ways to do good and evil before running out of steam.

 

The story is lacking a character as complex/compelling as Vader, and Rey is a solid/earnest character but can’t hold up the whole series on her own unless there’s something we are still missing about her family background. Chewie without Han just reminds us of the loss of another charismatic character, and Finn/Poe can’t cover for that.

 

How did this movie get a 93% RT rating across so many critics, that’s what is really hard to fathom.

 

The other problem is the Disney side killed us with so many cute moments and Happy Meal toys. Maybe that works with the under 12 audience, idk.

 

The bombers looked like they were leftovers from a bad episode of Stargate or Battlestar Gallactaca.

Edited December 17, 2017 by caulfield12

[TaylorStSox]

The tone and humor were completely off.

 

It’s like going from “dark/brooding” Bond/Bourne/Batman the last 10-15 years back to 60’s Sean Connery Bond.

 

Too jarring. It started with the idiotic face off between Poe and Hux and went downhill from there.

 

It wasn’t terrible, you had fan service in the appearances of Yoda and Luke’s melding with the force. The scenes with Like and Rey were fine, albeit predictable.

 

It just wasn’t in the same class as the other four...with the last one really being a remake. Rogue One was good, so 2/3 isn’t bad. I guess compared to Lucas’ 0/3 in the middle.

 

Somehow, they have to find a creative way to reboot the story and get audiences to care again. It needs a new director. There’s only so many ways to do good and evil before running out of steam.

 

The story is lacking a character as complex/compelling as Vader, and Rey is a solid/earnest character but can’t hold up the whole series on her own unless there’s something we are still missing about her family background. Chewie without Han just reminds us of the loss of another charismatic character, and Finn/Poe can’t cover for that.

 

How did this movie get a 93% RT rating across so many critics, that’s what is really hard to fathom.

 

The other problem is the Disney side killed us with so many cute moments and Happy Meal toys. Maybe that works with the under 12 audience, idk.

 

The bombers looked like they were leftovers from a bad episode of Stargate or Battlestar Gallactaca.

I actually think Kylo is an excellent character, but they've hardly spent any time fleshing him out. I don't really know his motivations, but the emo thing is actually intriguing to me. It seems human and relatable. The problem is that he hasn't had enough screen time and he's been pretty one dimensional. He's like a little kid with the temper tantrums. I see where they're going with him, but it's been executed poorly.

[danman31]

3

5

R1

4

8

6

7

1

2

Are we all gonna let this slide that he just put 3 as his favorite Star Wars movie, or was it too obvious of a troll job?

[caulfield12]

I actually think Kylo is an excellent character, but they've hardly spent any time fleshing him out. I don't really know his motivations, but the emo thing is actually intriguing to me. It seems human and relatable. The problem is that he hasn't had enough screen time and he's been pretty one dimensional. He's like a little kid with the temper tantrums. I see where they're going with him, but it's been executed poorly.

 

Okay, most potentially interesting but not fleshed out yet.

 

I think everyone would be hard-pressed to name 1-2, let alone 3-4, characters that they are invested in and really care about.

 

At this point, some of the Rogue 1 cast still resonate more. Even R2-D2 and 3-CPO are just window dressing now.

 

Put it this way, whose action figure would you actually want to collect after this one? One would guess kids would say Rey, Finn and Poe, but why? Maybe we just can’t see it due to the impossible task of those characters measuring up to the original cast in terms of memorability. Is it simply irreplaceable memories from youth? I guess this is one area it’s impossible for someone who saw the 3 original films in the theatres with their family to be completely objective about.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Even R2-D2 and 3-CPO are just window dressing now.

 

R2 was just there for Luke's sake, and I was fine with that because they are besties, but man, they really made C-3PO look like just a worthless scrapheap of metal. I get that he was always kind of a comic relief in the original movies too, but every scene he was in for TLJ was just to be laughed at or mocked. Poor guy.

 

At least they gave Chewy a new purpose and he had a cute/funny little sidestory with the Porgs.

[bmags]

I actually like Finn much more than last movie now and think they did push his evolution from self-interest to “friend”-interested to now rebel-focused and I say that even though it wasn’t worth distracting the movie with.

[Middle Buffalo]

I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, so I'm not super invested in these movies. I didn't even see Rogue One. I thought this one was good overall.

 

The good parts were the Kylo scenes (pretty much all of them) & the Kylo/Luke showdown was well done. I liked the mind melding stuff and Snoke was cool. RIP.

 

I would have liked more training - not the same reluctant teacher/student relationship from Empire. And, I'm done with Yoda. Don't come back unless you can bring Alec Guinness with you.

 

The whole Ren/Rose storyline was lame. Leia was terrible (her acting and the content). There were a few "yippee" type scenes in this, and those are always bad.

 

Overall, I think I'd group it with 4,5, & 7 in tier 1.

 

The next tier is 6 & 3.

 

2 & 1 were horrible.

 

 

 

[Kyyle23]

They said this trilogy was going to end the Skywalker saga, but it’s over pretty much. I really don’t feel like Kylo will be redeemed

[danman31]

They said this trilogy was going to end the Skywalker saga, but it’s over pretty much. I really don’t feel like Kylo will be redeemed

Yeah, I've been thinking about this too. It seems like this movie could have been Episode 9 with an epilogue of Leia dying and Kylo's ending adding 10-15 minutes to the story. Episode 8 should have been how the First Order became this juggernaut, move some of the Luke/Rey stuff over to keep 9 from being too long. As far as my understanding, they were upstarts in 7 and then lost in 7 so how are things drastically worse in 8, which takes place right after the ending of 7?

[Quin]

Already have friends saying people aren't true Star Wars fans if they dislike The Last Jedi.

 

I'm sure that is their feelings on the prequels.

[danman31]

Already have friends saying people aren't true Star Wars fans if they dislike The Last Jedi.

 

I'm sure that is their feelings on the prequels.

This is fine because The Last Jedi left me wondering if I actually am a Star Wars fan, and I watch the damn cartoons.

[caulfield12]

One thing's for sure...young kids today (mostly) love these movies, but for those who were born in the 60's or 70's and grew up watching the original trilogy in the theatres, there's just no way they measure up.

 

Part of it's due to advances in technology (CGI/IMAX) making it so hard to blow everyone away (see Avatar).

 

The other aspect is that the original cast has become so mythologized in their 1977-1983 "selves" that nothing can ever beat the novel experiences of seeing those films...how amazing they were because they were so different from anything we'd ever seen. And then there was the action figures and TIE fighters/X-wings and merchandising and Happy Meals...the first movie that was marketed in that way and became so ingrained in the culture. Now, seemingly every action movie is over commercialized and merchandising tie-ins might be equally important to the box office gross.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by caulfield12

[Buehrle>Wood]

It should have ended about a hour earlier with Kylo and Rey in Snokes chambers. The most interesting part was Kylo basically saying f*** the jedi, f*** the sith and even for a split second you think hes got a good point and think Rey may go with him because of it. But then yeah that was just brushed aside and we needed hoth 2.0 for whatever reason. Then Reys "coming of Jedi" moment is literally lifting a bunch of rocks, as if we needed that confirmation of her powers given everything that had happened.

[Quin]

It should have ended about a hour earlier with Kylo and Rey in Snokes chambers. The most interesting part was Kylo basically saying f*** the jedi, f*** the sith and even for a split second you think hes got a good point and think Rey may go with him because of it. But then yeah that was just brushed aside and we needed hoth 2.0 for whatever reason. Then Reys "coming of Jedi" moment is literally lifting a bunch of rocks, as if we needed that confirmation of her powers given everything that had happened.

 

The Rey-Kylo team up was fantastic. And I legitimately thought that Kylo Ren was going to become "Vader's heir" and bring balance to The Force - taking out any remnants of the Jedi and the Sith would have made him a fascinating character.

 

Instead Rey is like, nah, and he gets mad.

 

I think that pisses me off about all the people saying it's great because Rian Johnson took so many risks - did he?

 

- Killed Luke, but OK, it was basically Yoda's death 2.0.

- Snoke gets killed by Kylo, Vader killing Palpatine 2.0.

- Good guys fail, which happened in Empire.

- Rey's parents were insignificant. Ok, I guess that's a risk?

 

Meanwhile all the actual risks he could have done were backtracked.

 

- Morally gray force using Kylo Ren.

- Finn's suicide run at the end.

- Killing Leia in the opening.

- Having Snoke be something significant.

- Something other than "they have a MINI-DEATH STAR!"

[Steve9347]

One thing's for sure...young kids today (mostly) love these movies, but for those who were born in the 60's or 70's and grew up watching the original trilogy in the theatres, there's just no way they measure up.

 

Part of it's due to advances in technology (CGI/IMAX) making it so hard to blow everyone away (see Avatar).

 

The other aspect is that the original cast has become so mythologized in their 1977-1983 "selves" that nothing can ever beat the novel experiences of seeing those films...how amazing they were because they were so different from anything we'd ever seen. And then there was the action figures and TIE fighters/X-wings and merchandising and Happy Meals...the first movie that was marketed in that way and became so ingrained in the culture. Now, seemingly every action movie is over commercialized and merchandising tie-ins might be equally important to the box office gross.

I think about 100% of your comment here is wrong. This movie was a pile of s***. Had it been good, it would have been well-received. See Force Awakens, The.

[Soxfest]

Comedy a bit much in the movie.

[caulfield12]

I think about 100% of your comment here is wrong. This movie was a pile of s***. Had it been good, it would have been well-received. See Force Awakens, The.

 

I didn't like it (see prior comments above).

 

I'm just trying to explain the disconnect.

 

TFA was basically a remake, but at least that was well done, for what it was....getting the franchise back on track after the 3 misfires in the middle.

[Reddy]

This was Empire + Jedi cobbled together with a stupid prequel-esque casino scene in the middle that didn't fully flesh out anything it needed to, and tried to cram WAY too much into it. Star Wars has always had slow, quiet moments. Moments that advanced character development. This had none of those. Rey didn't learn anything from Luke. Who the f*** is Snoke and why didn't he matter AT ALL? Why was Leia f***ing flying?

 

The best parts of the movie were Mark Hamill and the nostalgia brought on by him talking to R2, Yoda, etc. And Adam Driver was solid. But the rest are just forgettable at this point, and it's just really lazy storytelling, IMO. I had fun, but afterwards all these thoughts started pouring in and I was like..... yeah.... yeah.... hmmm.... ugh.

[Quin]

He also basically blew up the entire premise of the Jedi from everything we learned in the prequels and OT, about Jedi needing years of training to use and harness their force power, which is a pretty major shift in Star Wars culture.

 

It was touched on in Rogue One, but I also liked the theme that there is a grey area between good and bad. That is something the OT and prequels tried to be very clear about, the Rebels are good, the Empire is bad.

 

Oh lord. Rey went from "inexplicably powerful Force user with a connection to Obi-Wan Kenobi and Luke's lightsaber" to "Her parents were space meth heads and she's a Mary Sue."

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Oh lord. Rey went from "inexplicably powerful Force user with a connection to Obi-Wan Kenobi and Luke's lightsaber" to "Her parents were space meth heads and she's a Mary Sue."

 

I agree. Although I also don't really believe Kylo. I think he was just trying to hurt her and get to her to let go of any loyalty she has to the Jedi history.

[bmags]

I agree. Although I also don't really believe Kylo. I think he was just trying to hurt her and get to her to let go of any loyalty she has to the Jedi history.

 

I agree.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Why would Kylo have any knowledge of Rey's parents if they're nobodies and she's a nobody?

 

Dude is full of baloney

[danman31]

Why would Kylo have any knowledge of Rey's parents if they're nobodies and she's a nobody?

 

Dude is full of baloney

And besides, that's not something worth complaining about. I thought that was more reasonable than forcing her into someone's lineage just because the Skywalkers are a lineage.

[Jose Abreu]

Why would Kylo have any knowledge of Rey's parents if they're nobodies and she's a nobody?

 

Dude is full of baloney

The reasoning is that he saw it during one of their force connections.

 

I don't believe it, though, and I think it gets revealed in #9 that she actually has a significant lineage.