Tim Anderson has improved defensively

[Jose Abreu]

Here are the stats for shortstop defense in 2018. Clearly, Anderson has shot up from the bottom of the list, where he was around the end of April. There are improvements in UZR, defensive value, and DRS, where he has crept out of the negative range. He has been improving defensively throughout the season while Manny Machado, who many can't wait to kick Tim out of SS, has been abysmal out there. 

I'd love for us to sign Machado but I think he's a disaster at SS and putting him there on a (supposedly) contending team would be very unwise. Anderson is the better SS defender by far. Manny simply doesn't have the range to play SS. 

[Sarava]

Obviously people want Machado for his stick. So assuming he insists on playing SS with any team he signs with. Who then do the Sox target this winter?

[justBLAZE]

Great to see.  I know many want to move Tim to another position but I think his bat is only valuable if he can stick at SS.

I see him as a SS and number 9 hitter on the next contending Sox team.

[chitownsportsfan]

Yea after TA made that long throw across, think it was in the 3rd or 4th inning I thought "it seems like TA has made all the routine plays and a few of the tough ones lately" and obviously the metrics now back that up.

He's been solid.  His bat has fallen off though.  That said, he's still a decent starting SS if he can OPS 700 with average or above average defense.  Obviously you'd hope for more in his prime but that would be a good floor.

[bmags]

Manny may have done teams a favor by proving he can't play SS anymore before heading to FA.

[Jose Abreu]

20 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Obviously people want Machado for his stick. So assuming he insists on playing SS with any team he signs with. Who then do the Sox target this winter?

I think many, myself included, want him for his hitting and his defense, which was arguably elite at 3B. But given how bad he is at SS, his value would be significantly worse if that's where he winds up playing. 

[chitownsportsfan]

11 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I think many, myself included, want him for his hitting and his defense, which was arguably elite at 3B. But given how bad he is at SS, his value would be significantly worse if that's where he winds up playing. 

He's going to be a 3B when he realizes how much the teams are going to pay him to play there.  They aren't going to pay him to play SS, his feelings aside.  

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

Here are the stats for shortstop defense in 2018. Clearly, Anderson has shot up from the bottom of the list, where he was around the end of April. There are improvements in UZR, defensive value, and DRS, where he has crept out of the negative range. He has been improving defensively throughout the season while Manny Machado, who many can't wait to kick Tim out of SS, has been abysmal out there. 

I'd love for us to sign Machado but I think he's a disaster at SS and putting him there on a (supposedly) contending team would be very unwise. Anderson is the better SS defender by far. Manny simply doesn't have the range to play SS. 

A combo of Machado at 3B, Anderson at SS, & Moncada at 2B could provide elite infield defense.  That is the dream and I think something Machado could be convinced of assuming the money is there.

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

A combo of Machado at 3B, Anderson at SS, & Moncada at 2B could provide elite infield defense.  That is the dream and I think something Machado could be convinced of assuming the money is there.

Moncada is top 5 in defensive runs saved on Fangraphs for 2B.  That he's already a top defensive 2B is pretty amazing.  He's been good overall with the glove since he game up, some youthful mistakes aside.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

A combo of Machado at 3B, Anderson at SS, & Moncada at 2B could provide elite infield defense.  That is the dream and I think something Machado could be convinced of assuming the money is there.

Yeah they'll definitely have to blow away whichever team comes in second for him. That's for sure. It's going to be similar to the Cano signing. A team like the Sox is going to have to outspend the others significantly.

[Greg Hibbard]

I'm extraordinarily concerned about his offensive performance this season. a .689 OPS doesn't seem enough to cut it. I realize it's typically not a power position, but he's 17th in qualified SS in OPS. 

Does anyone else think his offensive decline is eerily similar to what happened with Beckham? Great rookie year offensively followed by a gradual dropoff.

[Chicago White Sox]

12 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I'm extraordinarily concerned about his offensive performance this season. a .689 OPS doesn't seem enough to cut it. I realize it's typically not a power position, but he's 17th in qualified SS in OPS. 

Does anyone else think his offensive decline is eerily similar to what happened with Beckham? Great rookie year offensively followed by a gradual dropoff.

Offensive decline?  His K is rate down, BB is rate up, ISO is up.  If his BABIP weren’t 65 points down vs last year there would be no mirage of decline. 

[zisk]

13 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I'm extraordinarily concerned about his offensive performance this season. a .689 OPS doesn't seem enough to cut it. I realize it's typically not a power position, but he's 17th in qualified SS in OPS. 

Does anyone else think his offensive decline is eerily similar to what happened with Beckham? Great rookie year offensively followed by a gradual dropoff.

         Just my opinion but I really thought the reason Gordon got worse was that he had stopped juicing. It is really rare that a guy

        loses weight and muscle mass as he reaches his mid to late 20's. And that did happen with him.

[Greg Hibbard]

14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Offensive decline?  His K is rate down, BB is rate up, ISO is up.  If his BABIP weren’t 65 points down vs last year there would be no mirage of decline. 

Didn't know his BABIP was down that far.

[Jose Abreu]

2 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Didn't know his BABIP was down that far.

It's .263, was .328 last year. I think his newfound skill for walks plus his defensive improvements will make him a solid starter once the offensive numbers normalize. He's like a faster Alexei 

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

It's .263, was .328 last year. I think his newfound skill for walks plus his defensive improvements will make him a solid starter once the offensive numbers normalize. He's like a faster Alexei 

I really like the Alexei comp for Anderson.  Their skills, tools and raw backgrounds are very similar in a lot of ways.

[chitownsportsfan]

His upside has always been Ramirez with more speed.  His downside has always been a poor man's Ramirez, again with speed.  It's a great comp, they have incredibly similar skillsets at SS.

Fangraphs has him at +3 runs with the glove this year, and with a wRC+ of 88 he's at .8 fWAR, on pace for a solid 2.2 fWAR season.

He's developed pretty nicely this season, but I still want to see more power.  Too many times he's up there just trying to make contact.  His approach is better but when he swings too often he's not fully committed.  His next step will be to become  good guess hitter with two strikes instead of just being in protect mode.   Too often he gets jammed or otherwise gets himself out on hanging breaking balls on 2-2 and 3-2 counts.

Edited May 23, 2018 by chitownsportsfan

[Chicago White Sox]

Tim is currently at 1.3 WAR through 48 games.  He’s on pace for a 4+ WAR season despite a .273 BABIP.  That’s 55 points below his 2017 BABIP and 100+ points below his minor league average.  I get some of his denfensive miscues can be frustrating, but there is a group of people here who need to STFU when they start questioning if Tim is a major league SS or a key part of the core.  The kid is only 24 years old and well on his way to being a future stud.  His six years of control at roughly $39M is going to look a complete steal a few years from now.  Haters really need to be silenced here.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Tim is currently at 1.3 WAR through 48 games.  He’s on pace for a 4+ WAR season despite a .273 BABIP.  That’s 55 points below his 2017 BABIP and 100+ points below his minor league average.  I get some of his denfensive miscues can be frustrating, but there is a group of people here who need to STFU when they start questioning if Tim is a major league SS or a key part of the core.  The kid is only 24 years old and well on his way to being a future stud.  His six years of control at roughly $39M is going to look a complete steal a few years from now.  Haters really need to be silenced here.

That’s easy to say coming off yesterday’s game, or actually the last couple of games.  Just imagine if Anderson’s two errors in the 9th led to another blown save, it wouldn’t be so easy to take the position you’re arguing right now.

It’s a LONG season.  A month ago, Moncada was an All-Star and going to put up a 6-8 fWAR.

It was also just recently that people were arguing that Moncada was already one of the five best defensive 2B...and now Anderson’s numbers are better than Yoan’s, at least at Fangraphs.  I’m not sure how many of those who have watched every single game this season would give the nod to Timmy over Moncada.  Probably very few.

As of this moment, he’s 10th out of 27 SS’s with at least 150 at-bats.  He’s even ahead of Didi Gregorious (Moncada’s also 10th out of 25 2B.)

That said, I’m not counting on him to be a 4 war guy...2.5-3.0 is good enough, although 4 would be great.  IF IF IF he can keep that up, there’s obviously no point in moving him off SS.    Of course, a month ago, Yolmer Sanchez (once again) looked like he COULD be any everyday 3B.   That’s no longer the case.   Let’s see where we are after another 1/3rd of a season, at the trade deadline.

[Chicago White Sox]

21 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

That’s easy to say coming off yesterday’s game, or actually the last couple of games.  Just imagine if Anderson’s two errors in the 9th led to another blown save, it wouldn’t be so easy to take the position you’re arguing right now.

It’s a LONG season.  A month ago, Moncada was an All-Star and going to put up a 6-8 fWAR.

It was also just recently that people were arguing that Moncada was already one of the five best defensive 2B...and now Anderson’s numbers are better than Yoan’s, at least at Fangraphs.  I’m not sure how many of those who have watched every single game this season would give the nod to Timmy over Moncada.  Probably very few.

As of this moment, he’s 10th out of 27 SS’s with at least 150 at-bats.  He’s even ahead of Didi Gregorious (Moncada’s also 10th out of 25 2B.)

That said, I’m not counting on him to be a 4 war guy...2.5-3.0 is good enough, although 4 would be great.  IF IF IF he can keep that up, there’s obviously no point in moving him off SS.    Of course, a month ago, Yolmer Sanchez (once again) looked like he COULD be any everyday 3B.   That’s no longer the case.   Let’s see where we are after another 1/3rd of a season, at the trade deadline.

There are a group of posters here who talk like Anderson is some bum and are hoping he gets replaced at SS.  Whether he’s a 3 or 4 WAR SS isn’t important, it’s the fact he’s a solid to very good player and only going to get better.  You are actually arguing that one bad play last night should somehow offset his body of work which is absurd.  People are focusing too much on the mistakes and not looking at the bigger picture.

And I don’t get the Yolmer comparison at all.  Tim has a very strong package of tools, whereas Yolmer is more solid average around the board outside of fielding.  Anderson has a significantly higher ceiling and has a chance of being a special player.  We all hope Yolmer can be a solid starting 3B, but that’s probably as good as it gets.  I truly believe Anderson will put up a 30/30 season this year.  If so and he can maintain his current BB rate, he’ll be one of the best offensive SS’s in the game.  And tool wise, he’s got all the ability in the world to be a good defensive SS.  It will just take some time.

[Lillian]

Those two errors, yesterday, are likely the result of his playing with the thumb, on his injured throwing hand, taped up, . He should have been removed, for the bottom of the 9TH, but with both Davidson and Leury unavailable, and Rondon already in the game, I don't know who might have taken his place. In any case, when you watch Anderson play, you can't help but muse about his potential for stardom. He has some elite tools, well suited for SS. His range, speed and athleticism, combined with a strong arm and power at the plate, make him a guy who could become great.  

Regarding Machado; I would guess that his wanting to play SS, has been a ploy aimed at making him more valuable, as he approaches his mega contract. As many of you have suggested, it now appears that teams will view his "insistence" on playing SS as a negative. He will almost certainly be a third baseman, for which ever team ponies up the $300K to $400K, for the next 10 years. His skill set will become more and more suitable for 3RD, than SS, as he approaches the middle, to later, years of that new contract.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Lillian

[Replacement Level Poster]

Yesterday was a great example of where Tim Anderson is as a player. He hit two homers drew a walk  and scored 3 runs.  He also made three errors on two routine plays. I understand he’s playing with a banged up thumb, but a high throw to Abreu in the 1st directly lead to a run. The bottom of the ninth he booted a routine grounder and made an errant throw to home.

The errors were of the mental variety. No doubt Anderson come along way improved walk rate, power and his average will rise once his babip rises. He still needs to get more disciplined on the routine play.  No question the kid has a lot of physical tools. He has the ability to probably be the second best all around player on the team after Yoan. He just has to cut down on the preventable gaffes.

[Lillian]

If he plays today, he should be the DH and Rondon should be at SS. He can't throw with that thumb taped up and hurting.

[Dick Allen]

15 minutes ago, Replacement Level Poster said:

Yesterday was a great example of where Tim Anderson is as a player. He hit two homers drew a walk  and scored 3 runs.  He also made three errors on two routine plays. I understand he’s playing with a banged up thumb, but a high throw to Abreu in the 1st directly lead to a run. The bottom of the ninth he booted a routine grounder and made an errant throw to home.

The errors were of the mental variety. No doubt Anderson come along way improved walk rate, power and his average will rise once his babip rises. He still needs to get more disciplined on the routine play.  No question the kid has a lot of physical tools. He has the ability to probably be the second best all around player on the team after Yoan. He just has to cut down on the preventable gaffes.

How is one booted grounder and 2 bad  throws of the mental variety?

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

That’s easy to say coming off yesterday’s game, or actually the last couple of games.  Just imagine if Anderson’s two errors in the 9th led to another blown save, it wouldn’t be so easy to take the position you’re arguing right now.

It’s a LONG season.  A month ago, Moncada was an All-Star and going to put up a 6-8 fWAR.

It was also just recently that people were arguing that Moncada was already one of the five best defensive 2B...and now Anderson’s numbers are better than Yoan’s, at least at Fangraphs.  I’m not sure how many of those who have watched every single game this season would give the nod to Timmy over Moncada.  Probably very few.

As of this moment, he’s 10th out of 27 SS’s with at least 150 at-bats.  He’s even ahead of Didi Gregorious (Moncada’s also 10th out of 25 2B.)

That said, I’m not counting on him to be a 4 war guy...2.5-3.0 is good enough, although 4 would be great.  IF IF IF he can keep that up, there’s obviously no point in moving him off SS.    Of course, a month ago, Yolmer Sanchez (once again) looked like he COULD be any everyday 3B.   That’s no longer the case.   Let’s see where we are after another 1/3rd of a season, at the trade deadline.

The funny thing is if you add up all of Anderson's MiLB and MLB ABs, and compare them to Moncada's AB in Cuba/MiLB/MLB, they aren't that far apart.