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Lead-off Man

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2 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

You mean like what our manager did last year?  This is what I meant earlier.  “Speedy” guy with a crappy OBP and Renteria used him as a leadoff man.

If he gets an extension, it will be Robert

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1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

.380 OBP last year. Even if one thinks it’s a fluke, it was still .350 the year before and based on his quotes, it seems like he has realized the importance of walks and I don’t think that will change. We need to maximize his PAs. I’d love to have who I think will be our highest OBP player (though Moncada may challenge him) batting right in front of Moncada, Eloy, EE, Abreu, etc

Yeah, hes a career 357 guy. I'll pass on a slow footed catcher leading off solely based on OBP skills. 

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4 hours ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

Ultimately, if everything goes to plan, it will 100% be Madrigal. He struck out like 5 times total last year. He’ll get on base. That’s all a leadoff man has to do

That's the same skill that makes him ideal for #2.  Fox like.

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1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Anderson had a 357 obp last year. He may regress but wouldnt oppose to him leading off and yoan hitting second to open the season.

Ugh, Madrigal, Vaughn, Moncada and even Grandal would be better than Anderson. If your OBA is .22 above your BA You would have to

hit like Rod Carew every year. Not bloody likely with TA.

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50 minutes ago, zisk said:

Ugh, Madrigal, Vaughn, Moncada and even Grandal would be better than Anderson. If your OBA is .22 above your BA You would have to

hit like Rod Carew every year. Not bloody likely with TA.

Agreed. TA should never leadoff. The guy needs to walk, otherwise a hitting slump or a BABIP correction kills your first inning and wastes your power guys. 

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Yoan shouldn't be anywhere but the 2 or 3 spot.  Didn't they try leading him off last year and he was bad or am I mis-remembering?  He is the ideal 2 hitter.

Robert

Yoan

Eloy

EE

Grandal

Abreu

Tim

Mazara

Madrigal

Is what I would probably do depending on performance.  I like Madrigal at 9 to get on for Robert, wouldn't mind flipping Tim to 8 for the same reason.  Abreu is probably cemented at 3rd though because of our manager. Eloy it would depend if he was like the September Eloy or early season Eloy.

Either way that lineup is extremely deep and should hit for a lot of power.

 

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4 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah, hes a career 357 guy. I'll pass on a slow footed catcher leading off solely based on OBP skills. 

Agree

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3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Right or wrong, Ricky is going to space out those lefties.

Agree with this too and with the manager, as well, if he does indeed adopt that strategy.

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Tim Anderson hit lead off 4 games last year, hit .474 (6 for 19) with 2 doubles and a HR. OPS of 1.211. His second best slot was 6th, where in 12 games he hit .426 with OPS of 1.161. He mostly hit 2nd (65 games) or 7th (35 games), where he basically hit his seasonal averages. Here's one little tidbit. As the first batter of an inning, with 119 PAs, his slash line was .455/.470/.714/1.184.  

Based on those numbers, I would hit him lead off to begin the season. He also led the team with 17 SBs, so there's that.  Even though he only walked 15 times, you have to see what he can do at the top of the lineup. If he fails, the Sox have options.

Luis Robert would tend to be my pick to lead off once he's established. He didn't walk much either in the minors. 11 walks in 202 ABs in AAA. But the OBP was .341. And he can steal bases. But the key is that he's got power to drive in the bottom of the order guys, and he'll eventually be one of your best hitters, so give him the extra ABs. 

Nick Madrigal doesn't strike out, but that doesn't make him a great lead off batter. It makes him a great batter behind someone with speed who is on base, because you can hit and run, and he can get deep into counts without fear of striking out. This allows more pitches to steal a base. Madrigal posted a .398 OBP in AAA over 28 games. That's certainly excellent. But his OPS is .792 compared to Robert's .974. Who do you want having more ABs? Robert or Madrigal? It's no contest.

Given this, here's my initial lineup to start the season, but only until Robert shows he's ready to hit better than Anderson. 

1. R - Anderson

2, SW - Moncada

3. R - Abreu (whether he deserves to be here or not, this is where Renteria is going to keep him)

4. R - Jimenez (or could be Encarnacion). This is based off his ridiculous September when he mashed .340/.383/.710/1.093

5. SW - Grandal - he might hit 4th, but I keep him here for better R/L balance

6. R - Encarnacion (he hit better than Abreu last year - could be 3rd, 4th, or 6th)

7. L - Mazara (against lefties, I put Robert here, with Mazara's platoon partner 8th)

8. R - Robert - only until he shows he's ready to hit major league pitching, then he trades places with Tim Anderson

9. R - Madrigal - even though he should have a good OBP, his OPS will likely be the lowest in this lineup. This allows him to hit behind a speed guy where his bat control should have extra value. And if he gets on, he's poised to be driven in by the top of the lineup. 

The reason I put 8, 9 and 1 together is those are the 3 fastest players in the lineup, so you can play speed games with them. You can also play the hit-and-run game at the bottom of the lineup with Madrigal, and with either Anderson or Robert in the 8 hole, you can steal and have them score with a single by Madrigal.  

 

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11 minutes ago, HahnsKiddieTable said:

And will undoubtedly bat Abreu in the 3-hole

There’s no doubt about that!  What’s crazy is José is probably one of our worst hitters against RHP and he’ll be in the three hole regardless.

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2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

There’s no doubt about that!  What’s crazy is José is probably one of our worst hitters against RHP and he’ll be in the three hole regardless.

I’m just trying to figure out which power bat is he going to list as the designated bunter this upcoming season. 

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12 hours ago, Flash said:

Absent further moves by FO, who is likely to lead-off? 

Robert

Anderson

Madrigal

Leury

Other

I"d like to see a Madrigal/Anderson table setter.

I wouldn't waste Robert's offensive abilities by batting him first.  Stick him in the middle of the lineup opens the door to those batting ahead and after him to have good seasons as well.

As time goes on my attention turns to whether Renteria / Cooper is championship level field management in 2020.

As St. Theo did, I have my doubts about Renteria now that I have observed his body of work up close.

Both Renteria and Cooper's non-embrace of sabermetrics is concerning. 

Cooper basically peaked in 2005.

 

Edited by GradMc

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I think RR goes with something like this to start.

  1. TA (until Robert is acclimated)
  2. Yo
  3. Abreu (we know is will happen)
  4. EE
  5. Grandal
  6. Eloy
  7. Mazara
  8. Robert
  9. Madrigal

I would go 

  1. Robert
  2. Yo
  3. Eloy
  4. Grandal
  5. Abreu
  6. EE
  7. Mazara
  8. TA
  9. Madrigal

Lots of speed and power up top, good mix with the power guys in the middle, and speed at the bottom setting the table for the top again.  

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I want bat control and contact at the top (Madrigal / Anderson)

Moncada and Encarnacion (3 - 4)

The Abreu Eloy Robert factory (however ordered)

Grandal

Mazara

However you slice it, this line-up should not be boring.

That lefty-righty thing is overrated. Either you can hit MLB pitching or you can't.

Edited by GradMc
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Robert's OBP is gonna be around 310 at least to start. Speed or no speed, you can't justify leadoff with that. 

When he gets north of 350 then sure move him up there.

Actually he should be 3 eventually, right in the heart of the order 

Long term this would be awesome too half of the lineup

1 Madrigal 

2 Moncada 

3 Robert 

4 Jimenez

5 Grandal

 

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Robert struck out and barely walked last year in AAA and should not be in the leadoff hole at this point. I'd line em up like this.

1)Madrigal 2B

2)Moncada 3B

3)Abreu 1B

4)Jiminez LF

5)Encarnacion DH

6)Mazara RF

7)Grandall C

😎

8)Anderson SS

9)Engel CF

 

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