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Look at Ray Ray Run

MLB cheating scandal

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Brooks Boyer needs to call Keuchel and tell him to stfu. The more he talks, the stupider he sounds. 

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7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Brooks Boyer needs to call Keuchel and tell him to stfu. The more he talks, the stupider he sounds. 

Agreed, although that may just be a job for Hahn. The couple times Keuchel has spoken on the Astros, he’s partially said some ok things, and then he says the wrong thing. He needs to stop saying “that’s what baseball was at the time” even if it’s true. He knew his team was cheating at the time, and he needs to own it, or just move on with his new team and win the right way.

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It's fascinating watching players around the league react in real time. It's gonna get real ugly for the Astros.

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13 hours ago, Quin said:

It's fascinating watching players around the league react in real time. It's gonna get real ugly for the Astros.

One of two things is true.

 

Either people in glass houses are throwing an awful lot of rocks

 

or the whole league is genuinely pissed right now.

So far it seems like the latter. If NYY or LAD or Wash were doing something like this, they would really be setting up to have someone call them out. Instead everyone’s like “ok now it’s all out there and we knew it but no one believed us.”

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22 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

While I agree with your premise, it is really really difficult to ignore the strike out rate declines in their best hitters. The team had significant turnover, so using the raw K numbers between 2016 and 2017 does no good, but looking at the individuals who still remained we saw a lot of unprecedented K-rate declines that haven't been matched by 99% of other players as they improved in that area. 

 

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This is why I suggested no post-season, which would cause an uproar commensurate to the outrage felt by many over this incident.

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8 minutes ago, pcq said:

This is why I suggested no post-season, which would cause an uproar commensurate to the outrage felt by many over this incident.

It won’t happen, but it would be cool if they played this season thinking they’re good, and they win 92 games or whatever, and then on September 28, Manfred says no postseason for you.

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2 hours ago, flavum said:

It won’t happen, but it would be cool if they played this season thinking they’re good, and they win 92 games or whatever, and then on September 28, Manfred says no postseason for you.

He should have said that from the start.

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9 minutes ago, Wanne said:

He should have said that from the start.

Again, he obviously could not do that.

You would be punishing players who weren't involved while allowing players who were, but are no longer with the Astros, to escape that penalty. It doesnt make sense and it would never work. This is not college athletics.

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3 hours ago, flavum said:

It won’t happen, but it would be cool if they played this season thinking they’re good, and they win 92 games or whatever, and then on September 28, Manfred says no postseason for you.

I would love to see the 2020 Houston Astros stripped of all playoff eligibility.  Feels like the only way to hold the players involved accountable to me.

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20 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Again, he obviously could not do that.

You would be punishing players who weren't involved while allowing players who were, but are no longer with the Astros, to escape that penalty. It doesnt make sense and it would never work. This is not college athletics.

Meh...I get what you're saying....but ultimately it's the franchise's responsibility and they ultimately should be penalized.  If you hold a company liable for something...do the employees take the penalty or the company?

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15 minutes ago, Wanne said:

Meh...I get what you're saying....but ultimately it's the franchise's responsibility and they ultimately should be penalized.  If you hold a company liable for something...do the employees take the penalty or the company?

But these employees have a very powerful union, and a some contracts have postseason incentives - all players get bonuses (playoffs, world series). Players legacies are involved.

When I say it's not amateur sports, I mean the players have rights here and the commissioner doesnt have unilateral power to do as he pleases without support from the PA.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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31 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

But these employees have a very powerful union, and a some contracts have postseason incentives - all players get bonuses (playoffs, world series). Players legacies are involved.

When I say it's not amateur sports, I mean the players have rights here and the commissioner doesnt have unilateral power to do as he pleases without support from the PA.

Agreed. He just doesn't have the power to really take it any further.

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A real "fuck you" penalty would have been no picks in the top 10 rounds for 2 years, no international signings for 2 years, and a $200k fine for every game MLB discovered cheating in (count it as a separate instance of cheating). The max fine is $5M...so work your way around it. 

That would have been an example set. Instead you have "we don't think it affected the outcome."

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22 minutes ago, Quin said:

Relevant,

 

saw this, what was Manchester banned and fined for?  Don't know the story.

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2 hours ago, ptatc said:

Agreed. He just doesn't have the power to really take it any further.

He could strip that title.

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Quote

The decision, announced Friday by an independent financial control body of UEFA, the governing body for soccer in Europe, found that Manchester City had been guilty of multiple violations related to club licensing and so-called financial fair play rules — cost controls put in place by UEFA to try to mitigate the growing gap between rich clubs and poor ones in European leagues, and to tackle a growing debt crisis. The club, which also was criticized for failing to cooperate with UEFA’s investigators, also was fined 30 million euros ($32.5 million).

From the NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/14/sports/soccer/manchester-city-champions-league-ban.htm

You could argue this was less egregious than the Astros.

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2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

He could strip that title.

The owners wouldnt let him.

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8 hours ago, ptatc said:

The owners wouldnt let him.

The Houston Astros are the New England Patriots of MLB, using technology to gain an unfair competitive advantage over their opponents that resulted in unprecedented and unearned success for their respective franchises. Both of those franchises' championships should be removed from the record books (just don't have a champion for those years), the trophies should be taken from the respective organizations, and the individuals involved in the cheating should be banned for life. It appears, however, that both Roger Goodell and Rob Manfred lack the courage to do what is right for the integrity of their sport. What both the Astros and Patriots did in their respective sports is worse, in my opinion, than what the 1919 White Sox did, and there are people still banned from baseball over 100 years later for what that team did. At least they only fixed an outcome so that they lost. The Astros and Patriots fixed outcomes so that they won.

Edited by Dam8610
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On 2/14/2020 at 12:14 AM, Quin said:

It's fascinating watching players around the league react in real time. It's gonna get real ugly for the Astros.

Anybody else looking forward to the first time the Dodgers and Astros face each other this season? Those should be some very interesting games with some of the things the Dodgers have been saying. Yankees vs. Astros should be another one.

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1 minute ago, smellysox said:

Anybody else looking forward to the first time the Dodgers and Astros face each other this season? Those should be some very interesting games with some of the things the Dodgers have been saying. Yankees vs. Astros should be another one.

Bellinger just ripped Crane a new one and said Altuve stole the MVP.

The hatred for the Astros is real around the league.

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