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2020 Election Thoughts

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Rudy, Ivanka, Jared, and Mark Meadows at the WH today probably getting their secret pardons.

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This is a perfect example of the intelligence level of people who think the election got stolen from Trump.

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2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Rudy, Ivanka, Jared, and Mark Meadows at the WH today probably getting their secret pardons.

Is it possible to get a "secret" pardon?

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I wonder if Trump waits until Tuesday night  before Pardon Palooza.    Maybe he will announce the Pardons at his farewell address on the tarmack hours before Biden is sworn in.

This guy is going to Pardon his family, Kyle Rittenhouse, the guy that had horns on at the Jan 6 rally, Kushner Jr., Rudy Guiliani, and any other Trump  loyalist who is or might be  subject to criminal prosecution.  And yes, he will Pardon the biggest crook of all, himself.

Then he will have a leave  the WH using tax payer funds to fly him down to Florida .  Of course with the return flight of AF One after he is out of Office will be on us as well. 

The Senate has to try Trump for high crimes. Conduct Discovery, call witnesses, and get a Conviction.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, tray said:

I wonder if Trump waits until Tuesday night  before Pardon Palooza.    Maybe he will announce the Pardons at his farewell address on the tarmack hours before Biden is sworn in.

This guy is going to Pardon his family, Kyle Rittenhouse, the guy that had horns on at the Jan 6 rally, Kushner Jr., Rudy Guiliani, and any other Trump  loyalist who is or might be  subject to criminal prosecution.  And yes, he will Pardon the biggest crook of all, himself.

Then he will have a leave  the WH using tax payer funds to fly him down to Florida .  Of course with the return flight of AF One after he is out of Office will be on us as well. 

The Senate has to try Trump for high crimes. Conduct Discovery, call witnesses, and get a Conviction.

 

 

I genuinely don’t know if his justices are so in debt to him that they will rule that a president can commit crimes and pardon himself. They may be. But if they do, we have to amend the constitution afterwards. That just can’t be legal forever.

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Man, I'm still tripping on the fact that Trump's 11th hour play is a guy who makes shitty luxury pillows.

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2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I genuinely don’t know if his justices are so in debt to him that they will rule that a president can commit crimes and pardon himself. They may be. But if they do, we have to amend the constitution afterwards. That just can’t be legal forever.

The state charges will catch up to him, he can’t pardon himself for those.

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Can the President issue a pardon for a crime that hasn’t been charged?

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14 minutes ago, Marqhead said:

Can the President issue a pardon for a crime that hasn’t been charged?

I have asked this many times and it seems everyone has no idea.  That's how I wonder how he can pardon any of these people at the riots last week or Rittenhouse or any of these people.  How can you be pardoned before you are found guilty?

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13 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I have asked this many times and it seems everyone has no idea.  That's how I wonder how he can pardon any of these people at the riots last week or Rittenhouse or any of these people.  How can you be pardoned before you are found guilty?

Right. The ability to do this would basically make for a blanket pardon for anything done past present or future. I find that hard to believe, but of course it’s never been tested before like this. 

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12 minutes ago, Marqhead said:

Right. The ability to do this would basically make for a blanket pardon for anything done past present or future. I find that hard to believe, but of course it’s never been tested before like this. 

Another thing specifically to Rittenhouse, if he were to accept a pardon that would mean he is a felon, right?  Which would make it illegal for him to possess a weapon?  That would be a unintended good consequence

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In January, 1989, I attended the inauguration of George H.W. Bush even though I hadn't voted for the man. As a citizen, I wanted to see this ceremony in person.

Of course, I wasn't all that close to the platform, but I still could hear things. Before taking the oath, Bush went out of his way to say hello to Democratic Congressman Dan Rostenkowksi. It was a matter of courtesy and a way to keep lines of communication open.

In his speech, Bush said we don't measure our self-worth by what is in our pocketbooks. Even with my liberal beliefs, I found the speech inspiring.

Afterward, I went over the Arlington National Cemetery to visit President Kennedy's grave. I remembered hat he said in a speech at American University just a few months before he died. He said: "We all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal." For me, the whole day was memorable. 

An American can't experience something like this on the 20th because of the violent political atmosphere. It is a shame that a bunch of brain-washed lunatics have done this to our country.

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57 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I have asked this many times and it seems everyone has no idea.  That's how I wonder how he can pardon any of these people at the riots last week or Rittenhouse or any of these people.  How can you be pardoned before you are found guilty?

Many think it can’t be done. Nixon was given a blanket pardon, but it was never tested in the courts. Chances are, with some the self proclaimed “Law and order” President will be handing out, looks like Steve Bannon ripping off Trump’s base is now pardon worthy, that will more than likely be tested.

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1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

Another thing specifically to Rittenhouse, if he were to accept a pardon that would mean he is a felon, right?  Which would make it illegal for him to possess a weapon?  That would be a unintended good consequence

A pardon means that you're determined to not be guilty, so it's essentially like being charged but found not guilty, so I would imagine that wouldn't eliminate your right to possess a gun.

A commutation means that you're still guilty with a conviction on your record, but your sentence is reduced to time served, but he hasn't been convicted yet so I don't think he's eligible for commutation.

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1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Many think it can’t be done. Nixon was given a blanket pardon, but it was never tested in the courts. Chances are, with some the self proclaimed “Law and order” President will be handing out, looks like Steve Bannon ripping off Trump’s base is now pardon worthy, that will more than likely be tested.

Depends on how much you donate. 

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On 12/20/2020 at 8:01 AM, pcq said:

The military oath includes a provision to obey orders of the president. 

 

18 hours ago, poppysox said:

EE was every bit as bad.

 

1 hour ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

A pardon means that you're determined to not be guilty, so it's essentially like being charged but found not guilty, so I would imagine that wouldn't eliminate your right to possess a gun.

A commutation means that you're still guilty with a conviction on your record, but your sentence is reduced to time served, but he hasn't been convicted yet so I don't think he's eligible for commutation.

I did read Jared's fathers pardon will make it easier for him to borrow money.

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Oh man, you don't want to cross Graham. He might just go crazy and do nothing about it.

 

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7 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

I have asked this many times and it seems everyone has no idea.  That's how I wonder how he can pardon any of these people at the riots last week or Rittenhouse or any of these people.  How can you be pardoned before you are found guilty?

The writings of the Founders suggest that they very much intended the pardon power to be broad. There are at least 30 times when pardons have been issued to cover broad groups of likely illegal actions before charges were filed, going back to at least the war of 1812.

https://www.justsecurity.org/73851/the-constitutionality-of-non-specific-pardons/ 

It seems one big reason why the court hasn’t declared this ok is that courts very rarely have anyone try to challenge a pardon, it’s just been assumed the President can of course do that.

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NY Times is already reporting at least 100 pardons being announced on Tuesday, and four close to the the Trump orbit (including Dowd and Guiliani) are receiving fees is the $50-100,000 range (starting out) for bringing them to The Donald's personal attention...and one would think the total flowing to Trump-connected entities will be the teens (of millions of dollars) by the time that history sorts these last 2-3 months of the Trump presidency out.

He already has that $200-250 million fundraised but not spent to fight or contest election results.

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23 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Another thing specifically to Rittenhouse, if he were to accept a pardon that would mean he is a felon, right?  Which would make it illegal for him to possess a weapon?  That would be a unintended good consequence

FWIW Rittenhouse is charged by the state of Wisconsin, so Trump's federal pardon power doesn't apply to him.

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The notion that a President cannot commit a crime while in Office (which was stated in some kind of a Justice Dept. memo) doesn't seem to make sense.  For example, if the Senate found Trump guilty of Inciting an Insurrection against the government (or even Treason) , he just walks away Scott free ?  Oh yea, he committed Treason or whatever but his term is now up so OK, no problemo.   If a President cannot be held liable for any crime while in office then Trump may not need a self-pardon.  He just relies on that and his Supreme Court Justices to knock down any attempt to Prosecute him for  any crimes while on Office.

 

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