Should #13 be put back in circulation?

[Kyyle23]

I watched both careers too, and I never thought either HOF, much less

number retirement. thanks, douglas

 

HOF and number retirement aside, if you watched both players there shouldn't be a shadow of a doubt who the better player was.

[ptatc]

Had Ventura not screwed his leg up in '97, he may have wound up with a plaque in Cooperstown. So yes he was a better player than Ozzie.

 

Even if you reserve number retirement for the best of the best in MLB history, not just Sox history, Thomas still gets his retired. He is one of the top 20 or so greatest offensive forces to ever play the game.

That injury really didn't effect him much. He lost a littler range in his ankle but he wasn't a speed guy so it didn't effect his play other than the time he lost.

 

Ozzie was a very good player for the Sox. The defense he played at short was very good. He wasn't an offensive star but at that time the team didn't need it from him.

 

I would retire his jersey for all of the contributions to the Sox as both a player and manager. He was well above .500 and was top 5 or so in all time wins for the Sox as well as the only modern day World Series winner.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

I am all for Ozzie's number being retired, as that typically singals the player/coach never being active for the team again.

[Dick Allen]

That injury really didn't effect him much. He lost a littler range in his ankle but he wasn't a speed guy so it didn't effect his play other than the time he lost.

 

Ozzie was a very good player for the Sox. The defense he played at short was very good. He wasn't an offensive star but at that time the team didn't need it from him.

 

I would retire his jersey for all of the contributions to the Sox as both a player and manager. He was well above .500 and was top 5 or so in all time wins for the Sox as well as the only modern day World Series winner.

I think it affected the last few years of his career. He was using a cane a year after he retired before getting some more surgery.he was pretty much done at 3B at 34. His doctor called it post traumatic arthritis.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Dick Allen

[cabiness42]

Even with all of that, I watched Ventura's entire career and never once thought I was watching a future Hall of Fame player.

 

Obviously after his injury he was healthy enough to have a five pretty good seasons, so I don't know how much you can blame the ankle for shortening his career.

 

I think Robin's biggest problem in how his career is perceived is that he was on the same team as the greatest (clean) hitter of that generation. When your numbers are constantly appearing right next to Frank's in the boxscore, it's hard to appreciate how good he really was.

[Dick Allen]

I think Robin's biggest problem in how his career is perceived is that he was on the same team as the greatest (clean) hitter of that generation. When your numbers are constantly appearing right next to Frank's in the boxscore, it's hard to appreciate how good he really was.

In the full seasons he played with Frank, Frank's peak years, 1991-1998, throw out 1997 because of injury, Robin averaged less tahn 1 WAR less per season than Frank.

 

You are right, people really don't realize how good he was.

[Texsox]

Baines and Ventura both had HoF potential, both suffered physical ailments that ruined any chance of them reaching their full potential for a career. IF they both stayed healthy Sox history would have been much, much, different.

[3GamesToLove]

Has basketball or football ever had a player/manager? I think it's one of those quirky things that gives baseball a unique identity.

 

 

yeah in football. a long time ago.

 

 

Here's a list of NBA Player-Coaches, last ones were in the early 70's (Lenny Wilkens apparently).

 

It has a history in English soccer as well, even having a bit of a resurgence in the 80s and 90s. Ryan Giggs was interim player-manager for Man Utd the end of last season.It was only four matches, and he didn't name himself in the team for most of them, but he did sub himself on for one match.

[Thad Bosley]

I am all for Ozzie's number being retired, as that typically singals the player/coach never being active for the team again.

Harold Baines sez "Hi!".

[Dick Allen]

I don't think the White Sox will retire 13.

 

Thanks, Dick.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

Harold Baines sez "Hi!".

 

Wait, what? Harold Baines spoke out loud?

 

He is certainly the exception to the rule, considering that his number was retired by the Sox after being traded to another team.

 

Also, I was pretty young when all that went down. I remember being super mad they traded him, but I don't remember the whole story, including why/how they retired his number.

[Heads22]

I don't think the White Sox will retire 13.

 

Thanks, Dick.

Ha.

 

I don't either. I could see them keeping it out of circulation for a while still, though.

[Bob Sacamano]

13 should go back into circulation. Regarding coaches, unless they played for the team they are coaching for and had their number retired by that team, then they should have numbers in the 90s.

[ewokpelts]

Baines and Ventura both had HoF potential, both suffered physical ailments that ruined any chance of them reaching their full potential for a career. IF they both stayed healthy Sox history would have been much, much, different.

The sox let him walk in free agency. When he was healthy and productive. Aox history would not have changed unless jerry paid him.

[LDF]

The sox let him walk in free agency. When he was healthy and productive. Aox history would not have changed unless jerry paid him.

 

and the sox thought they had a reliable replacement in the minors.

[southsider2k5]

The sox let him walk in free agency. When he was healthy and productive. Aox history would not have changed unless jerry paid him.

 

Ventura already had the catastrophic ankle injury, and Harold's knees were long gone by the time they left the south side.

[shago]

It's going to be retired with #14. They left two spots on the wall of retired numbers.

Wow, we have a very low bar then. No way Ozzie deserves to have a number retired. Average SS, Rowand and Crede had more to do with clubhouse chemistry in 2005 than Guillen, he was just the clubhouse clown.

[Bob Sacamano]

Wow, we have a very low bar then. No way Ozzie deserves to have a number retired. Average SS, Rowand and Crede had more to do with clubhouse chemistry in 2005 than Guillen, he was just the clubhouse clown.

 

There definitely isn't room for two. Well there is but the spacing wouldn't look right or consistent with the rest so don't worry. Probably not getting retired.

[Douglas Rome]

I don't miss the circus, but I do miss the clowns. thanks, douglas

[Eminor3rd]

I don't miss the circus, but I do miss the clowns. thanks, douglas

 

There's a reason you only find clowns in the circus, though.

[ptatc]

I think it affected the last few years of his career. He was using a cane a year after he retired before getting some more surgery.he was pretty much done at 3B at 34. His doctor called it post traumatic arthritis.

I don't think it really effected his game much. Again, it really didn't hamper what he did well, hit and hit for power. His strength on defense really wasn't his range. It may have shortened his career. But prior to the injury he was very good and not a HOF player. I don't think the injury changed that other than a couple of years in length.

[Dick Allen]

I don't think it really effected his game much. Again, it really didn't hamper what he did well, hit and hit for power. His strength on defense really wasn't his range. It may have shortened his career. But prior to the injury he was very good and not a HOF player. I don't think the injury changed that other than a couple of years in length.

How many years is the question. He was done playing 3B at 34 years old. He was playing in pain, and hitting with a bad ankle has to have an effect. If he had 5 more years of his 1990's production, he is probably a HOFer. Whether the injury caused him to have 1 less or 5 less, we will never know, but the year after he retired, he didn't want to get out of bed his ankle bothered him so much.

[max power]

That injury really didn't effect him much. He lost a littler range in his ankle but he wasn't a speed guy so it didn't effect his play other than the time he lost.

 

Ozzie was a very good player for the Sox. The defense he played at short was very good. He wasn't an offensive star but at that time the team didn't need it from him.

 

I would retire his jersey for all of the contributions to the Sox as both a player and manager. He was well above .500 and was top 5 or so in all time wins for the Sox as well as the only modern day World Series winner.

You are ignoring that as a manager he was completely out for himself in the end. He did not give a flying f*** about the white sox.

[max power]

He is also one of the worst long term hitters in baseball history.

[ptatc]

How many years is the question. He was done playing 3B at 34 years old. He was playing in pain, and hitting with a bad ankle has to have an effect. If he had 5 more years of his 1990's production, he is probably a HOFer. Whether the injury caused him to have 1 less or 5 less, we will never know, but the year after he retired, he didn't want to get out of bed his ankle bothered him so much.

Possible, but he had very productive years after the injury so I don't think it effected his play at the time. He had surgery to clean up the ankle once he decided to retire. He could have done this earlier and returned to baseball but I think he knew it was coming to an end and waited.

There is no way to know for sure but I don't think his numbers would have continued to increase and while he was very good there was only one year that he would have been considered one of the best and it was post injury.

 

From my experience with this type of injury, I just don't think it really effected his play much, other than maybe shortening the career.