Samardzija Trade Packages

[Balta1701]

I think Avi can be a productive DH for this team moving forward. The difference between him and Tank or Beckham is that he has more offensive raw tools. Avi does not belong in right field.

I think the raw tools of those other guys were just fine as well. None of them had approaches at the plate or thought processes or adaptability to match, and when they couldn't overhaul their games they washed out. If we're thinking about him as a DH...just note, Viciedo at age 23 and 24 outhit Garcia at age 23 and 24.

 

Avi needs to make a serious improvement that the other guys were unable to make. And for a DH...the DH slot still does hit better than the RF slot, on average, so just to get up to average he needs to improve even more with the approach at the plate.

[ChiSox59]

Because acquiring expensive veterans like CarGo, Ethier, Reyes or Tulo that further hamstring the organization from a financial standpoint works as a better model?

 

Sometimes you have to roll the dice with young talent.

 

The bust rate is high, look at Beckham, Viciedo and now it's likely Avi is heading in that direction as well.

 

 

With Puig, you have a track record of results in 2013 and 2014, and he's only 24 years old. Frankly, I'm not sure that Robin Ventura is the right guy to control him, but I do have some confidence with Abreu and Ramirez around (and even moreso if we brought in Guerrero as well).

 

I haven't piped for Ethier, Reyes or Tulo. But in CarGos case, he won't require you to give up one of the best trading assets in the game to acquire (or the other aforementioned players for that matter).

[southsider2k5]

So you have Hahn and Haber, both analytics guys, who aren't homegrown. Not sure how you can have a connection with the team prior to working in baseball...

 

Brooks Boyer's previous employer is... Jerry Reinsdorf.

 

So you have Marco Paddy and Buddy Bell. Then the rest of the organization is mostly made up of guys who played for the Sox or went to a very impressive college. I am not sure you have much of an argument here.

 

Leaving out the Rick Hahn omission, there are more. That was an off the top of my head run.

[gatnom]

So, do people still feel like Samardzija gets traded at this point? It feels like they're just going to stand pat to me.

 

 

[GreatScott82]

I think the raw tools of those other guys were just fine as well. None of them had approaches at the plate or thought processes or adaptability to match, and when they couldn't overhaul their games they washed out. If we're thinking about him as a DH...just note, Viciedo at age 23 and 24 outhit Garcia at age 23 and 24.

 

Avi needs to make a serious improvement that the other guys were unable to make. And for a DH...the DH slot still does hit better than the RF slot, on average, so just to get up to average he needs to improve even more with the approach at the plate.

Your concerns are justified. With the lack of DH production in this lineup over the past 5 seasons or so, I figured a guy with Avi's offensive potential and defensive liabilities makes sense as an option as DH. I'm not sure why, but I think he will be more productive offensively than Beckham or Viciedo.

[southsider2k5]

Wait, how is Hahn not homegrown? Which MLB team did he work for before the Sox?

 

The White Sox hired him off of the street from a sports agency. He had no prior connection to the White Sox before being hired here. Loyalty would have meant someone else internally filling that position. It didn't happen.

[gatnom]

The White Sox hired him off of the street from a sports agency. He had no prior connection to the White Sox before being hired here. Loyalty would have meant someone else internally filling that position. It didn't happen.

 

Maybe if he fails at his job we can promote him again.

 

 

[fathom]

So, do people still feel like Samardzija gets traded at this point? It feels like they're just going to stand pat to me.

 

They'll probably wait until the 31st to make up their mind, which is the right thing to do given how things are going.

[Dick Allen]

So you have Hahn and Haber, both analytics guys, who aren't homegrown. Not sure how you can have a connection with the team prior to working in baseball...

 

Brooks Boyer's previous employer is... Jerry Reinsdorf.

 

So you have Marco Paddy and Buddy Bell. Then the rest of the organization is mostly made up of guys who played for the Sox or went to a very impressive college. I am not sure you have much of an argument here.

The Sox aren't unique in that way. People hire who they know.

[Baron]

Hey look

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/...l?event=event25

[caulfield12]

Never praised Preller.

 

Never brought up scandals or Nestor Molina.

 

Never cited LaRussa/Stewart as "sabrematricians." Not sure how you found a way to include AJ Hinch.

 

Good stuff though, caulfield.

 

 

That's a big difference from what you see in Oakland with Beane having Zaidi (now Forst) as his side kick, different than Theo and Jed on the North Side and different than Jon Daniels and Preller before Preller left, Friedman and Zaidi in LA, LaRussa and Stewart in Arizona, and on and on and on.

 

 

So these are all examples of what you want the White Sox front office to be, or not?

 

Try to be clear.

 

You never quite spell things out clearly, but make intimations and suggestions and throw out things but it SEEMED you were using the above combinations as "positive" and not negative examples of successful front office partnerships?

 

How is LaRussa and Stewart such an example? That's more like KW and Buddy Bell than anything. Not sure what the DBacks have ever done recently to merit much praise as an organization.

 

 

Hinch was included as an example of someone the DBacks kicked out of the organization who is the quintessential modern day baseball exec/manager with high level analytical abilities but the modern day touch with players. Basically, the best of Tony LaRussa without the pricky personality, egomania and drunk driving.

Edited July 28, 2015 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

So, do people still feel like Samardzija gets traded at this point? It feels like they're just going to stand pat to me.

I doubt it will be today. Maybe tomorrow, but if they keep winning....They can always trade him in August. No, he won't clear waivers, but he will clear the teams that have no shot, and then maybe someone gives you something better than the comp pick. But if the Sox win the next 3 or 2 out of 3...right now they are 1.5 games behind Toronto, tied in the loss column. They don't need crazy scenerios to occur other than winning games and Minnesota losing to have a really good shot. They are pretty much equal with the rest of the competition when it comes to games lost.

[flavum]

So, do people still feel like Samardzija gets traded at this point? It feels like they're just going to stand pat to me.

 

Blue Jays are at home for 3-- vs Phillies for 2, then KC Thursday.

 

Twins are at home too-- 2 vs Pirates, then Seattle on Thursday.

 

If things go backwards for the Sox over the next two games, I'm trading Samardzija anytime on Thursday. Otherwise, see how things finish out after Thursday's games and then decide.

[southsider2k5]

Hey look

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/...l?event=event25

 

I f***ing hate Boston.

 

No you can't have Chris Sale. Stop asking.

[Baron]

Ben Nicholson-Smith ‏@bnicholsonsmith 2m2 minutes ago

Would #BlueJays give up another top prospect? AA: "Ideally you hang on to them, but you also realize you're not going to get guys for free."

https://twitter.com/bnicholsonsmith

[OmarComing25]

I f***ing hate Boston.

 

No you can't have Chris Sale. Stop asking.

It's a god damn broken record at this point. Good f***ing lord, let's sweep them.

[Baron]

I f***ing hate Boston.

 

No you can't have Chris Sale. Stop asking.

 

It's the same guy who likes to keep bringing up his wet dream of Chris Sale going to the Red Sox.

[southsider2k5]

Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst 2h2 hours ago

 

Now that the #WhiteSox have pulled even with the #Tigers, it’s no lock they trade Jeff Samardzija. Don’t want to punt on this year yet.

[Dick Allen]

That's a big difference from what you see in Oakland with Beane having Zaidi (now Forst) as his side kick, different than Theo and Jed on the North Side and different than Jon Daniels and Preller before Preller left, Friedman and Zaidi in LA, LaRussa and Stewart in Arizona, and on and on and on.

 

 

So these are all examples of what you want the White Sox front office to be, or not?

 

Try to be clear.

 

You never quite spell things out clearly, but make intimations and suggestions and throw out things but it SEEMED you were using the above combinations as "positive" and not negative examples of successful front office partnerships?

 

How is LaRussa and Stewart such an example? That's more like KW and Buddy Bell than anything. Not sure what the DBacks have ever done recently to merit much praise as an organization.

 

 

Hinch was included as an example of someone the DBacks kicked out of the organization who is the quintessential modern day baseball exec/manager with high level analytical abilities but the modern day touch with players. Basically, the best of Tony LaRussa without the pricky personality, egomania and drunk driving.

Hinch was 84-123 in a year and a half as the DBacks manager. Kirk Gibson, as old school as can be, took his place and they won 94 games the next season.

[ILMOU]

If KW is still "in charge" of all the personnel decisions, this situation is truly f***ed up. Why would Hahn not know this would be the way it is with JR in charge, and KW still in the FO? Hahn's been courted by other teams and waited for his turn here, presumably. Ultimately, this again falls on JR's desire to keep everyone in the family happy, and letting much needed clear delineation of responsibilities go to s***.

 

And should KW be involved with a trade to TOR if he's heading there in a few months? I don't like that conflict at all. KW needs to move on, for everyone's sake, but this clusterf*** is JR's fault, not KW's.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Stan Bahnsen

[caulfield12]

Hinch was 84-123 in a year and a half as the DBacks manager. Kirk Gibson, as old school as can be, took his place and they won 94 games the next season.

 

 

Gee, now you're making your own point.

 

Robin Ventura inexperienced and no talent...bad record. The same thing happened with Hinch, who was undercut constantly by his front office, unlike Robin who has received almost four seasons of "on the job training."

 

Ventura has gotten nothing but votes of confidence, faith and loyalty.

 

As you said yourself, Joe Torre/Bobby Cox/Tony LaRussa couldn't have won with those teams. It's funny you use the Hinch example because he was brought in to replace a manager who'd been fired after a 12-17 mark to begin 2009, and you say those changes never work, right? He actually improved the 2009 team, with a .436 winning percentage for the remainder of the year.

 

The Diamondbacks ended the 2010 season with a 65–97 record. This poor performance was blamed on an extremely weak bullpen, which finished with a collective 5.47 ERA, and a lack of offense which was punctuated by the team setting the single season strikeout record.[19] and ending the season with 1,529. wikipedia

 

Managers don't matter, right? Robin Ventura, Cox, Torre and LaRussa would have had the same exact record with that bunch, right?

 

 

 

Basically, Gibson took a team to 94-68 and turned it back into a disaster in the span of 3 seasons and completely wore out his welcome with his gruff, aggressive, "take no prisoners" authoritarian style.

 

In the following two seasons, the Diamondbacks were exactly 81-81. This season (2014), though, they've been pretty awful from start to finish, currently sitting with a 63-96 record, the worst in the majors by three full games.

 

So he had one good/surprising year and then ran them into the ground.

 

 

And Hinch doesn't get credit for anything he's done with the Astros this year, which has been even more impressive than the Cubs/Wine Vintner Half Magician Maddon?

Edited July 28, 2015 by caulfield12

[ChiSox59]

Hey look

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/07/...l?event=event25

 

Hahaha, too funny. Also dated tomorrow. Give it up Boston....Sale won't be changing Sox.

[Baron]

Jim Bowden ‏@JimBowden_ESPN 2m2 minutes ago

Nationals continue to work on Papelbon; Cardinals continue to work on Adam Lind; Blue Jays continue to work on Latos/Haren; Tigers on Leake

https://twitter.com/JimBowden_ESPN

[caulfield12]

If KW is still "in charge" of all the personnel decisions, this situation is truly f***ed up. Why would Hahn not know this would be the way it is with JR in charge, and KW still in the FO? Hahn's been courted by other teams and waited for his turn here, presumably. Ultimately, this again falls on JR's desire to keep everyone in the family happy, and letting much needed clear delineation of responsibilities go to s***.

 

And should KW be involved with a trade to TOR if he's heading there in a few months? I don't like that conflict at all. KW needs to move on, for everyone's sake, but this clusterf*** is JR's fault, not KW's.

 

 

Ironic that we raided Toronto for Paddy, later Toronto discovered they wanted KW to run things, JR denied permission and now we're about to make a huge trade with them?

 

Especially when you go back to the infamous Sirotka for David Wells fiasco, which I guess has been forgotten by all but Keith Law.

 

Sounds like Hoyer/Cubs time all over again.

Edited July 28, 2015 by caulfield12

[bmags]

Do I have to have an opinion on everything I post? I was giving examples. If I broke off and gave opinions on everything and jumped subjects over each tandem brought up my posts would lack coherency. I try to keep my posts coherent.

 

Especially interesting since the post as a whole didn't explicitly condemn the KW/Hahn differing philosophies, it just brought in examples of how typically duel executives are aligned.