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Backup Catcher (update 3/29 - Lucroy won't make team, asked for release)

Backup Catcher?  

118 members have voted

  1. 1. Who do you think SHOULD be the backup catcher?

    • Collins
      70
    • Lucroy
      35
    • Mercedes
      12
    • Zavala
      1
  2. 2. Who do you think WILL be the backup catcher?

    • Collins
      29
    • Lucroy
      86
    • Mercedes
      2
    • Zavala
      1


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12 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

If Grandal can be a catcher so can Yermin.

Grandal is one of the best defensive catchers of the league

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=70&type=1&season=2020&month=0&season1=2020&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2020-01-01&enddate=2020-12-31

 

That's like saying if Mike trout can hit great billy Hamilton can do that too

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5 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

Grandal is one of the best defensive catchers of the league

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=70&type=1&season=2020&month=0&season1=2020&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2020-01-01&enddate=2020-12-31

 

That's like saying if Mike trout can hit great billy Hamilton can do that too

I'm not as firm a believer in Fangraphs defensive stats as you.

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23 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

Grandal is one of the best defensive catchers of the league

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=70&type=1&season=2020&month=0&season1=2020&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2020-01-01&enddate=2020-12-31

 

That's like saying if Mike trout can hit great billy Hamilton can do that too

Fangraphs loves him because he genuinely does a great job receiving the ball, framing pitches, and stealing strikes.

Where I have issue with his defense is after the ball is put in play. Seems to continually make boneheaded mistakes during a live play and forgets how to catch the ball. Where's my defensive runs saved stat that shows him botch plays at the plate?

I'm not advocating for him to be traded, I'm just not ready to anoint him as some defensive god when he continues to make the same mistake. Parts of his game are lacking. If that's just a focus issue, fix it.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

Fangraphs loves him because he genuinely does a great job receiving the ball, framing pitches, and stealing strikes.

Where I have issue with his defense is after the ball is put in play. Seems to continually make boneheaded mistakes during a live play and forgets how to catch the ball. Where's my defensive runs saved stat that shows him botch plays at the plate?

I'm not advocating for him to be traded, I'm just not ready to anoint him as some defensive god when he continues to make the same mistake. Parts of his game are lacking. If that's just a focus issue, fix it.

More to your point he may sacrifice other parts of his game to be a good framer. He has lead the league in passed balls 3 times. If he cut down on passed balls maybe that framing stat gets worse ?  Defensive stats especially for catchers are not as trusted as defensive stats for other positions.

 

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
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On 3/16/2021 at 4:32 AM, Dominikk85 said:

Honestly if they don't give Collins the backup job after the spring he is having why keep him at all? I mean he is 26 now, staching him in the minors really has no value.

So either give him the backup job or trade him, maybe his hot spring training is a good point to sell high on him.

If the Sox give Lucroy the backup job, I do think there is value in sending him back to AAA. Collins has still only caught 40 MLB games in his career. As long as he isn't blocking a better prospect at AAA, let him work on his defense in AAA for one more year. Catchers get injured , so there is a good chance Collins will get recalled during the season. 

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1 minute ago, SCCWS said:

If the Sox give Lucroy the backup job, I do think there is value in sending him back to AAA. Collins has still only caught 40 MLB games in his career. As long as he isn't blocking a better prospect at AAA, let him work on his defense in AAA for one more year. Catchers get injured , so there is a good chance Collins will get recalled during the season. 

If Lucroy makes the roster and Collins is sent down, they either need to trade Collins or have him change positions. There is nothing more he could have done to make the team. If they choose a replacement level at best vet over him, it's time to move on, either from behind the plate or the organization.

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3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

If Lucroy makes the roster and Collins is sent down, they either need to trade Collins or have him change positions. There is nothing more he could have done to make the team. If they choose a replacement level at best vet over him, it's time to move on, either from behind the plate or the organization.

Dick: I am not sure 40 games in 2 years is a good enough sample especially for a catcher. It took Tyler Flowers 5 years in the majors and until age 28 before he produced .  Now maybe the Front Office has enough data or imput from the pitching staff to determine Collins will not make it as a catcher. 

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On 3/25/2021 at 9:17 AM, Dick Allen said:

If Lucroy makes the roster and Collins is sent down, they either need to trade Collins or have him change positions. There is nothing more he could have done to make the team. If they choose a replacement level at best vet over him, it's time to move on, either from behind the plate or the organization.

Gotta think both Collins and Lucroy make the roster now.

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On 3/26/2021 at 11:41 AM, manbearpuig said:

Gotta think both Collins and Lucroy make the roster now.

That likely depends on whether or not they decide to use Vaughn in LF. If so, there is room for both. If not, then I think Lucroy is the odd man out.

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Seems like Sox may have had a change of heart on Lucroy?

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4 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Seems like Sox may have had a change of heart on Lucroy?

Maybe he is hurt again. 

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13 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

Maybe he is hurt again. 

He hasn't been playing lately so its possible.

Collins is making the team for sure. Looks like there is some tweets in Spanish that Yermin has made the team but I don't know that for sure.

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15 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Seems like Sox may have had a change of heart on Lucroy?

Or maybe they just found out that he’s completely washed up and not deserving of a major league roster spot? The rest of the league has seemed to agree for 2+ years now...

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3 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Or maybe they just found out that he’s completely washed up and not deserving of a major league roster spot? The rest of the league has seemed to agree for 2+ years now...

He's a vet catcher and non-roster invitee. At the plate, I don't know but he he's a better catcher than Collins and Mercedes. 

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5 minutes ago, raBBit said:

He's a vet catcher and non-roster invitee. At the plate, I don't know but he he's a better catcher than Collins and Mercedes. 

Can we send him to the minors without him opting out?

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11 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Or maybe they just found out that he’s completely washed up and not deserving of a major league roster spot? The rest of the league has seemed to agree for 2+ years now...

His play this spring indicated he was healthy for the first time in a number of years.

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20 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Can we send him to the minors without him opting out?

I believe he could reject the assignment.

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43 minutes ago, raBBit said:

He's a vet catcher and non-roster invitee. At the plate, I don't know but he he's a better catcher than Collins and Mercedes. 

Collin’s inability to catch is greatly over exaggerated IMO. It was the narrative starting his career and people refuse to get off of it and acknowledge that he has indeed improved. We just need him to be average-above average in his limited time behind the plate and I don’t see any evidence that he can’t be. I know he’s not going to be a positive defensively, but you act like he’s going to hurt the team every time he catches and I just don’t agree. 

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3 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Collin’s inability to catch is greatly over exaggerated IMO. It was the narrative starting his career and people refuse to get off of it and acknowledge that he has indeed improved. We just need him to be average-above average in his limited time behind the plate and I don’t see any evidence that he can’t be. I know he’s not going to be a positive defensively, but you act like he’s going to hurt the team every time he catches and I just don’t agree. 

If the pitchers and/or Tony LaRussa decide that Lucroy is a better catcher and that's what's important, well, then the narrative becomes all that matters.

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14 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Collin’s inability to catch is greatly over exaggerated IMO. It was the narrative starting his career and people refuse to get off of it and acknowledge that he has indeed improved. We just need him to be average-above average in his limited time behind the plate and I don’t see any evidence that he can’t be. I know he’s not going to be a positive defensively, but you act like he’s going to hurt the team every time he catches and I just don’t agree. 

Show me someone who will publicly say he's a catcher at the big league level.

He may have improved over the offseason or last year at Schaumburg. We don't know that though. He hasn't proved anything behind the plate.

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28 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Show me someone who will publicly say he's a catcher at the big league level.

He may have improved over the offseason or last year at Schaumburg. We don't know that though. He hasn't proved anything behind the plate.

Just as you know I can’t find someone who has said publicly that he can catch, I know that you can’t find me proof that anyone has written him off as a catcher either...

 

And to the bold- so he hasn’t proven anything, but you’re also completely unwilling to let him have a chance to prove himself? And for Jonathan Lucroy? Makes 0 sense to me, but to each their own...

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10 minutes ago, Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm said:

 

Updated title post of this thread as that sounds like news. 

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Collins passes the bare minimum eye test on his catching ability, at least for me. We will see how well he does stealing strikes, calling pitches, and managing runners, but he doesn’t look out of place when he’s back there

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