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Y'all are hilarious. A 22 year old has a month of bad-ish starts and everyone is like "I never liked him, why did we get him, Hahn got snookered."

Kopech is 22 with Giolito and Moncada being 23. Not worried, lol.

I know the most likely answer I'm going to get is "Of course not, there's never enough pitching," but that's a boring answer and doesn't allow for much exploration of the question. To explore the question, the first key step is to identify the pitching that we can have a reasonable expectation that they might be ready to pitch on the MLB team by 2020. MLB 1) L Carlos Rodon 2) R Dylan Covey 3) R Reynaldo Lopez 4) R Lucas Giolito Other than Giolito, this group is very solid at the moment. There's still some SSS questions with Covey and some injury questions with Rodon, but it's not too difficult to see the top 3 guys on this list holding rotation spots in 2020. AAA 1) R Michael Kopech 2) R Jordan Stephens 3) R Spencer Adams 4) R Carson Fulmer Kopech obviously has immense potential and could be the ace of the staff in 2020, recent bad stretch notwithstanding. Stephens is an older guy, he'll be 26 very soon, but he's done nothing but produce at every level along the way. He's a guy I'd like to see get a crack at the MLB rotation this year to see what they have. Adams is young for level, which has been a theme for him throughout his minor league career. He just recently was promoted to AAA after a good run of starts at AA following a slow start to the season, so he'll likely be here the rest of the year. Fulmer to me is already in the "try to convert to high leverage reliever" category, but he's still starting at the moment, so it seems pertinent to include him here. AA 1) R Alec Hansen 2) R Dane Dunning 3) L Jordan Guerrero 4) L Ian Clarkin Remember Alec Hansen, that guy who was once in 1-1 consideration in the 2016 draft until control issues allowed the White Sox to pick him in Round 2 and he immediately put those issues to bed and showed the potential that had him in that 1-1 conversation for all of 2016 and 2017? He'll be back starting in Birmingham soon after he lost half of 2018 to injury. Meanwhile Dane Dunning has picked up where Hansen left off, doing nothing but consistently perform well against age appropriate competition as he has since being acquired from Washington. Jordan Guerrero and Ian Clarkin have had poor years, and may be best used as reliever converts. A+ 1) R Dylan Cease I included Cease here because I feel he will be in AA by the end of the month. He's been great at this level, and his stuff gives him ace level ceiling. Given the above information, I think promoting Stephens, Dunning, and Cease as soon as it is feasible. For Stephens, this season may be his only chance to prove himself worthy holding a rotation spot given his age and the ensuing logjam behind him. Dunning showed us a full season of A ball dominance in 2017 and has followed that up thus far with a half season of AA dominance. He doesn't seem to have much left to prove in AA and isn't very young for the level. Cease has also been dominant at A+ and appears to be ready for the test of AA. But what if Rodon, Covey, Lopez, and Stephens all stick as starters? That leaves 1 rotation spot for the likes of Kopech, Hansen, Dunning, Adams, and Cease, but more than 1 will be needed for this group. Do you trade one of the established starters to replace them with a guy that fits the timeline better? Do you trade some of the prospects for bats? I'm interested in hearing the board's thoughts on this.

Yeah, I actually began to notice this initially from back when I played as well. My high school and college managers were like that. Those levels are LITTERED with f'n Tony LaRussa wanna be's who think "teaching young players baseball" = "Every time a runner gets on, we bunt and manufacture runs!"... Stuff like that. Bleck! I had coaches who said all the typical stock lines from old school baseball. "I don't care if your my 4th hitter or 9th hitter. You're gonna bunt this season." I actually had one coach say he "doesn't like home runs -- because it clears the bases and takes the pressure off of the defense"... Uh... excuse me? The pressure of what? Allowing those runs to score? Like you would accomplish if you hit one out of the damn ball park right now? lol My favorite line was "play for one run an inning. If we can score one per inning - we win!". Yeah, the thing is... that won't happen, dingus. Then you'll simply get one run out of the few times you threaten every ball game. You'll average about 3 runs per game - which my college team did one year and we stunk. haha It's obviously different when you get up to the professional level. These guys are much more qualified, but it's the same principle.

Hold it Hold it Hold it...with your speed you should be hitting it on the ground and legging it out....

People are focusing on the words “too much pithching” and missing the key point here. We are going to have a glut of pitchers that will need opportunities in the major league rotation in the next 1 1/2 years and not enough room for them all. That does NOT mean they will all make it, but it will certaintly take time to know which ones will unless we plan to cut bait relatively quickly. The way I see it Rodon & Lopez (health permitting) are locks for the opening day 2019 rotation. Despite recent struggles, I think there is a 90% chance Kopech is in the rotation by mid May. That leaves two total spots in the near future for all other pitchers. Right now Covey would be the favorite for one. The other spot will probably be a battle between Giolito & Stephens. Sure, one of these guys can go to the pen and serve as backup plan in event of injury. But things will get complicated when Dunning shows he’s ready in the first half of next year. Which one of those guys do cut bait to make room for Dane? And Hansen shouldn’t be too far behind, so things will get even tougher. So sure this is a good problem to have, but sequencing these guys in will prove to be a bit of a challenge if all goes well.

5.20 ERA 1.44 WHIP 6.1 BB/9 innings. If he came up, he wouldn't be any better than Fulmer or Giolito.

If you are going to declare those players failures how about discussung Covey, Abreu, Sanchez, Anderson, Rodon, Dunning, Jimenez, Collins, Zavala, Fry, Soria.

Honestly I've got more hope for Giolito and Moncada than I do for Kopech. I've always thought he was more likely to be a reliever. Honestly, lately the plate has been four inches bigger for him vs other hitters, and it is kinda hard to evaluate him as a hitter when he's constantly being screwed by horrible home plate umpires.

You didn't hustle in trying to find your old post....you're benched

Don't forget, he made two substitutions for pinch runners and then bunted, so he was still playing for one run (tie game). If they had tied it in 8th, he was then down two of his more dangerous hitters.

I feel for the guy, but even he has to know that his days in Major League Baseball are extremely numbered and that he can't hang. He sees his numbers on the scoreboard every night.

Girardi.

Don't get your hopes up. If they fire him and hire someone legit, they will actually get criticism if they don't play well.

we are trying to lure the tigers back into the al central race so they can foolishly trade some of their prospects? brilliant stuff, Hahn and Tricky Ricky.

Just like he had Anderson and Moncada come into his office yesterday and tell them they need to focus more, maybe Hahn should do that with him.

Also it is time to put a lid on this Thompson shit

Nice 2 game losing streak for RR....thank god he's a good cook

Really glad we can't run for Abreu now Oh, and that we have to hit Thompson Bravo, Ricky. Bravo. Take a bow!

lol, fire him right now.

I didn't see/hear that. This is very disappointing managing of late. The team HAD been playing better, there are / were some signs for a nice 2nd half, but this guy keeps doing this nonsense. I am livid he used up Rondon and Avilan to get two hitters and is then stuck with friggin gas can Manaya and his 8.00 ERA... You pitch guys like Minaya in 8-0 games until they EARN the right to comeinto a tie game. Ricky FAIL

Is Avilan's pitch limit 4?

Renteria = atrocious tonight

Very typical of this team in that situation late in games this year. Which is why handing them that first out makes no fucking sense. To set the table for our 7th, 8th and 9th spots. lol

Haha, so crappy. I've seen this story of Gardenhire outmanaging the Sox before.

play for 1 run you'll get one (or none). puke.

Avilan and Rondon are credible pitchers...why the hell not let them pitch more in a tie game? Instead Ricky does 'situational pitching', which MAKES sense if you're winning, but is not worthwhile if you're tied/losing, because it means you have used up two pretty good pitchers and are left with slugs like Minaya. I am not blaming Renteria for the current state of affairs, but I hope they replace him at some point. This is just dumbass managing.

Lopez has been pitching kind of, bend but don't break, lately. I think it shows he's learning how to pitch through trouble. As you pointed out he had alot of hits but aside from one inning he was able to pitch out of trouble and without his best stuff tonight.

Won’t happen as long as the pitcher continues to get strikes called on pitches that miss by 4”

You may run like Hays but you hit like shit

He's making it so Ricky can't close the book on him. However, his defense is still a big liability and Smith has also been swinging it very good.

Lopez has been pretty damn good this year, and it seems like since you were all aboard the “Lopez is a reliever” train preseason, you enjoy his bad starts over his good ones just you can post your sarcastic smiling emojis.

Lol...I love this post!

Please stop with the worship of bestiality. This is a family site ?

?

Says the IG thot avatar guy.

Stop your filth and grow up fratboy. Typing obscenity looks stupid.

I respectfully disagree. Those numbers are inflated by a ton of guys getting spot starts or because competitive teams are cycling through options in the back of their rotation. A random start here or there isn’t what I call an opportunity for a high end pitching prospect. And for the most part, we are going to to want to stick through our young guys’ struggles as it’s going to take some time to determine which of our guys are going make it and which will fall off. Injuries may help some, but we’ve done a pretty good job in the past decade of keeping our guys healthy (Rodon withstanding). I fully expect there to be a bit of a traffic jam when guys like Dunning, Hansen, & Cease start hitting the scene.

Is it me or is anyone having issues getting this to play? Tried playing it on my home commute and it kept restarting on my iPhone. Now my home mac isn't even showing it as an episode ?

Well, thank God both Albies and Moncada can be good players at the same time. Strange, strange logic.

The only team that has too much pitching at this moment is the Astros who have Peacock and McHugh operating out of the bullpen and guys like Martes who have a ton of talent in AAA. They also have Whitley coming up the system too. And look what's going on there -- they are looking for additional bullpen help this year. They also are going to lose Keuchel at year end and will lose others in due time as well. So the answer is no. Even if there is a year like this year for the Astros where all these guys pan out and we have no room we will still have a role for each and every one. In the case where all these guys are throwing well you can use a few guys and package them for a Gerrit Cole. You can utilize a guy like McHugh and Peacock out of the bullpen for 2-3 innings at a time to keep the starters more fresh for the post season, etc. Also Covey, Giolito, Guerrero, Stephens, etc. are not exactly Cole, Verlander, McCullers, Morton, Keuchel, McHugh, Peacock, etc.

I think we all have hoped for better from the both of them, but a baseball season is LOOOONNNGGGG. Just as it was foolish for fans to get too excited last year about Kopech in AA or this year when Moncada was red hot in April, it’s equally foolish to give much weight to the times when their performances are hitting their valleys. Both of these players are talented. They’re both going to get hot again. They might even go ice cold again. All of that will probably happen this season! The end end of a season (or two seasons) has a value in providing a perspective. Wait for that.

Was Sano ever the #1 prospect in baseball? The expectations for Moncada should be sky-high. The Sox need him to be a stud. He is one of the anchors of the rebuild. If Moncada pulls a Sano and ends up back in the minors then Hahn and company should be given the axe.

Ozzie Albies just hit homers in back to back games this week. The kid is only 21 and is already a better ballplayer than Moncada. Moncada was a lot more fun last Summer when he was on top of pretty much every midseason prospect ranking list. He was even ahead of Gleybar Torres on most rankings which seems preposterous now. Too bad that you actually have to play the game and put those #1 "tools" to use.

My point in my first post in this thread was that if Moncada/Kopech/Giolito still look bad toward the end of 2019, Reinsdorf should clean house in the front office, and bring in new management to re-evaluate everything. Hahn, KW and Hostetler should no longer be making scouting decisions at that point.

Anyone who posts here should know I'm still sky high on Moncada and Giolito, and after thinking about it further, I think the threshold of "they are what they are" is somewhere between 1200-1500 PA and 400-500 IP. Thinking that Moncada/Giolito will still figure it out, while acknowledging that they suck currently are two different and rational thoughts. My whole thing with Kopech is that I think he overthrows and might be better suited being similar to Aroldis Chapman than Verlander. I think there is a 50% chance he's a stud closer, a 30% chance that he's a complete bust and a 20% chance he's an ace. Both Moncada and Giolito are roughly 1/3 of the way to the IP/PA threshold. If they both get 2/3 of the way to the threshold and still suck that is the "get worried" point. The 1/2 point is the really concerned, but not worried quite yet point. I wouldn't get worried about Giolito never figuring it out until he gets to 380 MLB innings, because he's such a project and everyone knew that when he was traded here. I have said this multiple times and it bears repeating, If Giolito wasn't a major project he wouldn't have been available for Adam Eaton. I looked up where both guys are on experience and based on AB+BB Moncada is at 507 MLB PA, and Giolito is at 132 2/3 MLB IP. Both about roughly 1/3 of the maximum threshold, like I said earlier.

Face reality we're stuck with Hahn and company as long as JR owns the team. Hahn has been the GM for 6 years and the team hasn't had one winning season. Most other MLB owners would have replaced him by now. That unfortunately is not going to happen here.

J-Rod is gonna need some investigation soon.

There are two kinds of pitchers who put up a great ERA for a while: 1. Guys who are totally lucky. Some combination of too few K/too many BB/too much hard contact to sustain their numbers for very long. Mat Latos is a recent example of this phenomenon. 2. Guys who pitch really, really well for a while and don't have good numbers because of luck. Luckily, Covey is of type 2. He's not lucky. That doesn't mean he'll always be good, but it's nice when a guy has good numbers because he's been good and not because of random variation.

Maybe you should take a breather from White Sox baseball for a few years. It’s clear you don’t have the patience for a rebuild.