greg775

Tonight is a big game. It would suck to win the first and lose the next three as we did in Minnie. I'm assuming it's a 4-game set.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 4, 2010 -> 08:12 PM) Adrian Beltre turned 31 this year and he only got 2 years from Boston. Looking through the list from last year, I can hardly think of any guys over 32 who got multi-year deals. So if nobody that age is getting a multi year deal, the key for a player is, at 29, to sign a huge, six-year deal like they do in the NBA.

To the sabermetricians ... how many games will Kotsay cost us the rest of the year by playing in 80 percent of the games. Flat out, how many losses pinned on him?

True, Hibbard. Maybe we should just go with one less pitcher and keep Kotsay when Teahen is back. Oh wait ... the organization is afraid to cut Linebrink as well.

Yeah, that is a good point and further clouds the issue. Why did Ozzie want Thome gone, when Thome is a great chemistry guy; yet he doesnt want to rid the team of Kotsay, who is a great chemistry guy? I can't answer that one. Maybe that'd be a good one for Rongey. Was Thome willing to accept a platoon here?

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 4, 2010 -> 02:25 PM) I'm not quite sure where you're going with this. The only "inside information" reason to keep Kotsay is he's good in the clubhouse. But being good in the clubhouse does not make up for being a horrible baseball player. There is no practical joke or clubhouse speech that can change the fact that Dayan Viciedo and Brent Lillibridge are contributing to this team at a significantly higher clip on the field than Kotsay is. And that's why it's a no brainer that he should be gone when Teahen is back. Winning breeds chemistry, not the other way around. I think just on general merits, Ozzie is a smart baseball man. But his level of stubborn is VERY high, and it gets in the way of logic far too frequently for him, which makes him look dumb. I shouldn't speak for Rongey and I don't know why I'm commenting since I also want Kotsay gone, but in reference to your point, I think in Rongey's mind, "being good in the clubhouse does make up for being a horrible baseball player" in this case. Because from what I read, I think it said he believes one lousy player can't cost a team a division title, but the collapse of team chemistry could be a killer. WIth so many players on a team, I"think" he was saying yes one lousy player who is a great clubhouse guy is an acceptable tradeoff. Again, I'm all for getting rid of Kotsay but I think there's a difference of opinion in how much Kotsay is killing the Sox with Rongey and the rest of the board becaause Rongey truly is valuing chemistry as much as on-field performance here.

I'd like to see a list of the Sox's last 20 doubleheaders. As a fan it seems to me we haven't swept many; we have been swept in many and split several as well. My guess would be swept at least 10 times; 2 sweeps and 8 splits is my guess.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 4, 2010 -> 06:54 PM) I think someone might offer him like $8-$9 million for a season...but no one's offering him a couple years. Love this thread. I've love watching him hit and dig throws at first for a long time. You really think he can't get a three year deal at that kind of money per season? Just one year? I don't see why he wouldn't be able to land a multi-year deal. I have no reason to doubt you, I just think teams always find money for guys who produce. He won't be THAT old, either. Do guys his age still get multi-year deals from teams with cash?

QUOTE (balfanman @ Aug 4, 2010 -> 08:43 AM) I agree with this, however; Chris does have access to some inside information that none of us do. I don't believe that I "stroke" Chris anymore than any other poster as I like to get the views of eveyone here. I can disagree with someone without resorting to nastiness and name calling. In this case I disagree vehemently with Ranger on the Kotsay issue, but I would love to encourage Chris to keep coming back and posting his opinions as well as any other information that he can give us. I almost get the feeling some stubborn posters don't want any inside information. Which is crazy. It's like they know Kotsay sucks and don't want to hear ANYTHING to the contrary. I mean I think he sucks as well, but if there are reasons for keeping him around and Ranger knows them, it is of value to us to learn those reasons IMO.

Fair enough, Soxfan, but I think in his eyes the chemistry/clubhouse issue is a strong point. He said that it means more to a team than we realize. It's fair of him to push that issue, which to him appears to be a strong issue. He seemed to be saying he feels it's not always about numbers. It's about a team being a team and the clubhouse is a big part of that. People seem to counter that Oz could make him a bench coach. Well, he prolly doesn't want to be a bench coach. He wants to get a hit every nine at bats or so.

Yeah, you would think KW would overrule Oz on this one. Kotsay just doesn't get enough hits or walks to warrant playing time. But I was just saying with him playing both ends of a DH today, no way he's gonna get released upon Teahen's return. That wouldn't make sense for him to fall that far in the skipper's eyes in just a week or so. I find it difficult to believe KW and Oz haven't been driven crazy by his ground outs to second and pop outs, but I guess they haven't been driven to insanity yet for some reason.

Why is it here to stay? People aren't against people having a good time at games. They just don't want fans to do the pathologically cliche Wave. Is it really here to stay? Or is it something done once every 4-5 sellouts or so??

I disagree. I think he does a good job on the postgame dealing with a lot of crazies and is not condescending on here. Sometimes his view is opposite of the norm and he is not afraid to state it. And ... I would turn down any invitation to be on any roundtable discussion with him or on the air, so I'm not kissing his ass here in hopes of anything like that, which somebody stated. Condescending? Can you imagine hosting a talk show after a White Sox loss? I haven't seen anybody stroke him on here, BTW. I like reading his stuff because he disagrees with the majority opinion on here and has arguments to back his opinion just as others on here have arguments to back their opinions.

Probably wise to not hold your breath. No way they are going to DFA a guy who played both ends of a DH today. Oz actually considers him one of his better players obviously if he played both ends of the DH at his age.

What are the odds of that? There are a couple crappy players on every team as well as veterans having off years and also deserving the tag of "crappy" for a given season.

QUOTE (SouthSidePride05 @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 01:41 AM) Do fans at Wrigley do the wave? The crowds at the Cell have been downright embarrassing. It's like when the stadium gets more than 30,000 fans, they don't know how to handle it, they get all giddy and start the wave.. Then there's the fights in the UD.. But what's bugging me the most is how lame the crowds have been. The fans are so f***ing lethargic. It looks like half the crowd are zombies. Whenever I happen to catch a Cubs game on tv, I notice how those fans are alive. Whenever there's a big pitch, the entire crowd rises to their feet in unison.. within 2 seconds. I've never seen that at the Cell. It takes 45 seconds for half the crowd to stand up. I know we rip on Cubs fans for acting like every game is a World Series game, but that's better than looking like a casual family softball game. I just wish every game was like that blackout game. The White Sox deserve more crowds like that! Not to sound like an, "In the old days" guy, but you guys who missed out on the Old Comiskey missed some incredible incredible crowds. Wow was it electric in there when the place was full. Now when the team sucked, it was empty and a morgue and dangerous when you walked back to your car, but when it was full ... WOW!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 4, 2010 -> 03:56 AM) That's exactly what everyone said about Nick Swisher too. Now everyone wants him back. QUOTE (Friend of Nordhagen @ Aug 4, 2010 -> 04:11 AM) Believe me, I don't want Nick Swisher back. I do, however, want Gio Gonzalez back. Not me. I don't want Swisher back. I still have a bad taste about how bad he was with the Sox. Love the second post. I want Gio back and Clayton Richard too. I wouldn't mind getting Garland back, either, but I don't want to start a monumental eruption on Mt. Soxtalk, so strike that comment from my record, please. The Kotsay situation is what it is. For some reason, Ozzie isn't sick of seeing his weak ground outs and pop ups. I think it'd make a veteran baseball guy like Ozzie puke as it makes us puke. I don't get worked up about it, because it seems inevitable Kotsay is gonna play just about every day. I wonder why Oz likes seeing Kotsay make out after out. It's ugly to the eye and Oz has the power to eradicate Kotsay from our eyes and his eyes.

Too bad Harrell had to get sent down after that win. After winning the opener today, it would have been interesting to see him go out there and try to win his second game in as many starts. He should have had no pressure after the Game One win and his nice win the other day. Instead we got an ineffective and maybe nervous Torres. Rout.

QUOTE (AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Aug 4, 2010 -> 02:00 AM) Can we make a team rule, if your not batting .225 or higher, your not getting playing time. That means no more .217 Mark Kotsay and more .202 Andruw Jones Thought I'd give a shout out to this particular post. It's impactful, yet kind of creative and worth reading. Much unlike the jump off the ledge, angry posts after every loss and after the lineups of the day are announced. Can't we at least have some creativity like this above poster? I liked that post a lot and had to retweet it. Excellent post IMO. -- I'd hate to be Torres. He has no future on the mound me thinks. Did he at least pitch out of a windup this year? Didn't see the game? Or was it the annoying stretch the whole game.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 09:05 PM) If you believe some reports, last season was the first time he'd ever been put as a SS for any extended length of time, so it only took him about 1 season to turn into a GG SS. That aint' bad in my book. Amen. Some guys aren't finished products the first day, the first season. He deserves credit. I was totally against moving him to ss. And I was wrong, just like most of this board including me was wrong when we wanted to blow this team up when the team was 9 back.

QUOTE (Chi Town Sox @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 08:58 PM) Saw this on my CBS Fantasy League, LMAO Beckham gets pranked at deadline Gordon Beckham, 3B CHW News: From The Sports Xchange notes: 2B Gordon Beckham was the target of a Kenny Williams joke as the non-waiver trade deadline came to a close Saturday. The GM called his second-year player into manager Ozzie Guillen's office just 10 minutes before the deadline and closed the door behind him. "Ozzie went 'No!' and the other coaches said 'No!'" Williams said. "(Beckham) had this look of like, 'No, really?'" What did Williams tell him? "'Well, I would really like to say one thing to you before I get into the nuts and bolts of this stuff,'" Williams said. "'That at-bat you had (Friday) night, where you pushed across that run, it was one of the best at-bats you had all year. I just want to say nice job.' Then I shook his hand, and he said, 'That's it?' And I said 'That's it.' He had a sigh of relief. Ozzie had a sigh of relief and started cursing at me." Beckham has been subject to trade rumors for the last month, but was told last week he was not going to be traded. Analysis: Beckham has hit .379 since after the break and is much closer to the player we saw in 2009 than in the first half. Consider him a sleeper to use in all Fantasy formats again, especially if he is eligible at second or third in your league still. That is a phenomenal prank. Kudos to Kenny. Wow.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 08:06 PM) Pierre LF Ramirez SS Rios CF Konerko 1B Quentin DH Beckham 2B Viciedo 3B Castro C Lillibridge RF Here's Oz's linup again, Pierre lf Vizquel 3b Rios cf Konerko dh Ramirez ss Kotsay 1b Castro c Jones rf Beckham 2b I guess I like yours better cause Tank is in there. I'm not sold on starting Lillibridge in right in your lineup. I like his current role. You have CQ and Paulie both over Oz's Paulie and Kotsay, so I like that as well.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 07:40 PM) Whatever. Jim Thome is the ultimate clubhouse guy and they had no problem dumping him yet they can't find it in them to get rid of a terrible player like Kotsay?! Bizarro world. I just hope Ranger keeps coming around and supporting Kotsay cause I want to see the fireworks. Yes I do. I wouldn't be against making him a coach, but he probably is going to try to play forever. He's not that old and still gets a hit once in a while, so he wouldn't agree to that.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 07:57 PM) Of course Ozzie would give Konerko a breather at 1B, after all, he's already 34 years old. That ageless duded named Omar Vizquel playing both games at 3B is perfectly fine though... Just out of curiosity what lineup do you want tonight? I think it would be cool to see those who complain pretty much about every lineup despite our winning ways list their lineup of the day. I know I'd like to read them every single day and compare them to our skipper's lineup.

QUOTE (J.Reedfan8 @ Aug 3, 2010 -> 08:34 PM) So.. I wonder what the lineup will be tonight by Ozzie. More Mark Kotsay?! Hell yes! Hopefully another winning one as most of his lineups have been for quite some time now.