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Exactly why I've been saying sustained success is a mirage of Hahn's mind when they haven't done much at all to change orgnizational philosophy especially in the beginning of the rebuild when it was more necessary . Not too late to catch up but does anyone really see them buying a load of high speed cameras, taking IFA seriously and actually trading for more bonus pool money and becoming Luhnow ruthless to make sure all are on board with the philosophy change ? I know I don't see it happenning.

You can't even call it a career year . He did great for only 297 plate appearances, He had a career 1/2 year. And yea no thanks. Those are the kind of numbers we hope Collins can get. And Gallo had 2 years with high K around 200 per season , high walks and less than .210 batting average but high OPS due to the 40 and 41 HR;s he provided. One guy like that I could possibly stomach like Collins but 2 you 're relying on walks too much without a hit tool. Too typically all or nothing or the BB, K ,HR outcome. Also the Ranger more than likely will move both Choo and Mazara. Choo as a semi salary dump and possible eating some of that contract.

Not by me. I repeatedly said he was slow as molasses to anyone who speculated him in CF by using his sprint speed numbers.

He was a free agent after 2019 only if you couldn't work out a deal for longer. Tampa signed him to an incentive laden deal for 1 year. Sox couldve gave him 1 year and an option, But anyway beside the point. Yea so you are telling me you would have rather kept Cordell, Tilson and Palka because they were more valuable to the Sox than an MVP season from Avi ? You already said the chances of them breaking out was 0.1% , If Avi had an MVP season I think the odds would be just a little bit higher they could get a decent sized asset for him don't you? And even in a non MVP season I'd rather take the chance of getting a low level minor leaguer or maybe even OMG shocker the Sox could trade for IFA Bonus pool money !

Re: Avi I always thought the purpose of a rebuild was to collect assets , identify talent and make transactions to bring in more talent. Avi was obviously more talented and similar in age to Cordell, Palka Tilson so why get rid of him over them ? There are always other options for a player besides him playing in the future. The more assets you collect while still in the rebuild perhaps your odds go up of making a trade . One silly insignificant trade such as how the Astros got Yordan Alvarez can make all the difference. Hey I'm all for getting the top talent . I was the one who suggested getting Rendon and moving Moncada or playing Rendon at 2nd . Just bring in the WAR machines and do whatever you have to do. But if they start crying poor once they have 1 big contract then I'd rather not hear about how they need the money for the future to lock guys up. which is what we heard from KW just last off season when we didnt even land a big contract yet.

Read the thread from early June through July 1st.

Where's Eloy ?

I thought it was Yadier Molina.

He must be reading my posts But Gardner also looks like a good choice . I'm just concerned about his age.

It would be extremely tempting. Players are not invulnerable to injuries that threaten their careers. There's already a bunch of peeps around here who call Moncada soft. A bird in the hand my friend.

Won't happen. These reporters are all shills for the agents. Every year everyone forecasts big bucks being spent and the last couple years the market has been tight . He's not a 2 way player . Why anyone thinks he gets $20M for 5 years is beyond me. Oh look he's a Boras client . Just shocking the richest most powerful agent out there already has one of his lackey's out in full force.

I understand that concern but I just don't see any other option. If the Sox were in a position of strength I'm not even sure I could run with your idea then either. There are plenty of decent names out there who should perform as they always do barring injury. Of course the trick always is do you get them and if you don't what's plan B ? Do you settle for someone like Avi in RF ? I'll toot my own horn. I was one of very few who recommended resigning Avi after he was non tendered. Turns out one of the smartest organizations in baseball agreed with me and got good value for the money and now he gets a chance to play in the playoffs . I really want to see him do well. Now I haven't been tooting the Avi horn again since I prefer Gardner/Dickerson more but I'm just recommending the Sox concentrate on kicking some ass early in the process with good offers and then get on a roll showing the late signers/stragglers that they mean business. A lot of these guys are Boras clients so I can't say how effective that will be but they have to show everyone they will spend the money by making a flashy early signing if possible. I mean if your plan was to get everyone started thinking big so you don't have to look at so many posters saying Cole etc. are pipe dreams more power to you. Think big.

I agree wholeheartedly and it's why I don't believe sustained success is realistic because they never prepared the whole system for it.

From MLBTR from April 11,2019 https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/04/mlb-releases-2019-20-international-bonus-pools.html Major League Baseball has released the bonus pools for each team for the 2019-20 international market, as Baseball America’s Ben Badler provides. There are no longer any carryover spending limitations from the prior international system, so every team is free now to operate without limitation under the new rules — though there is one organization that still faces a notable limitation. (Braves) Also from MLBTR for the 2018-2019 signing period. Under the previous CBA’s signing system, teams were penalized for going over their pool limits by being limited to signing players for no more than $300K. Eight teams (the Astros, A’s, Braves, Cardinals, Nationals, Padres, Reds, and White Sox) are still under this penalty for the 2018-19 international pool, though seven of them will be able to exceed the $300K once the 2019-20 int’l signing period opens on July 2, 2019. The Braves are the exception .. The Sox traded Jones in late July so the Sox were able to exceed the 300K limit after July 2nd, 2019. They gave up $1M of the slot money to the Rangers. They got 2 pitchers in return but as many here and on twitter thought it was a very strange deal . And again in case you missed it many teams made signings before the Sox were in the penalty. What did the Sox do? Do they have anyone valuable to the team now because of signing some 16 yr olds before the penalties like the Twins did /6/7/8 years ago. The Twins are just a small sample of teams that got great value from that money just as the Sox couldve done had they kept Tatis or spent it on others in the Tatis years or before the Robert penalty. No argument can be made otherwise. Ad apparently what you just told me since I gave you proof from MLBTR was wrong and the things you got right like the 300K limit I had already posted .

They've traded it a few times in the near past and before that. The most recent was withTX to take Nate Jones meaning they had money they could have used but didn't. Other times when they were in the penalty they could only sign players at 300K or less. That means they could have used all the money but on more inexpensive types but chose not to do the quantity over quality type signings. My main point is use the money MLB gives you to sustain success instead of discarding it. Guys like Robles and Acuna and many others come from that money. There are many success stories out there and Sox have none because they ignored it and had the Wilder scandal. The one success story they could have had was traded away , Tatis, Jr. Accumulate assets. MLB gives each team free money to do just that and its largely been squandered until Luis Robert . A part of the Twins success this year is based on 3 guys they developed through IFA. The Nats have Robles, Braves Acuna and on and on.

Everyone knows ALonso and Jay were Manny acquisitions . It's also probably why the Sox supposedly had interest in Nelson Cruz, If anyone remembers Manny wrote an article in the Players Tribune on why he was playing for the DR in the WBC and it emphasized family. So it's perhaps the reason why the Sox did what they did regarding Machado. It might also be the reason for Colome and Nova and Welington Castillo from earlier , all team mates on that 2017 team. I'm as leery of the front office as you and there are some good value picks out there along with the headliner. Our best hope is they get 2 headliners 1 from the starting pitching group and 1 from positional players then mix and match to maximize power, OBP, left handedness , positional versatiilty, defense and the bullpen. If they keep these things in mind there are plenty of names that could be had on reasonable deals, I do not expect failure but I also do not expect 100% hits and I also don't expect them to fill all the holes to make a playoff team but enough to put the Sox into a position for a big run in 2021. Betts can be discussed then if available.

Get a clue and stop trading your International Bonus Pool money and trade up once in a while .

But that just relegates the Collins dilemma to another year of waiting and I think next year is the year he really needs to show what he has with the Sox since Kopech Cease Robert Madrigal will all be in the beginning stages of their careers and Lopez also needs another year also which is why I don't see a playoff appearance next year but with the other signings we proposed might get us close to the playoffs or at least into the mid 80's+ in wins. Young pitchers could take 2-3 years to find the right combination of pitches and command to reach full potential but hopefully because of pedigree they can be good by the 2nd year like Giolito did but I see that as the exception rather than the rule. Some of those guys might not ever find it much like Rodon who only showed flashes but never found the consistency due to injury or being unable to sustain it for long stretches.

Um Greg. Moose has never played RF in his whole MLB career. Try DH, 3rd, 2nd and 1st. And if we do sign him he'll have to basically split time at 1st and DH with Abreu and then get around to filling in for Moncada and Madrigal. Moose would be a full time player with the Sox otherwise he wouldn't sign with us.

The $5M or under part is the tricky part. We can literally look at 200 fringe/injured guys or AAAA types and pick 10 of them and still might not get the value. It's the hardest thing to do and the Sox got extremely lucky they found value in McCann and Marshall. Look at all the crap they tried and never panned out. You could probably find 15 guys over the last 3 years they took fliers on and missed. We never did find our Max Muncy. Palka was the closest we got and he got nowhere close to the positional versatility and OBP of Muncy. Another guy is how the Astro's fleeced the Dodgers for Yordan Alvarez or how a guy like Arestides Aquino was kept by the Reds. If I had to choose I'd still scour the young guys who can provide even wild unimaginable upside like somehow Marcus Semien improved his D and hitting to get 8 WAR. It's also one of the reasons the Sox shouldn't be trading their draft picks yet and putting more money in the international free agency and not trading that money away. I'm not really that confident that we have the personnel in player development/scouting or even the tools to identify the next Muncy , Semien , Alvarez or Aquino since some of that is just looking in the right place at the right time or just keeping a very long list of players to keep an eye on and pouncing on them if they become available even for a short period of time like Aquino.

or Gardner might be even better.

I agree with these 2 in the most polite way I can think of saying hell no. Never ever trade for 1 year of a great player headed to free agency. It's lunacy especially with so many young players who still need to prove themselves ( Kopech , Cease, Collins, Robert, Madrigal. Lopez and Rodon and Dunning coming back in the 2nd half also having to prove themselves. I know many want to be in the playoffs next year but it's not quite there yet. Solidify the roster, get rid of much of the dead weight and give the team some more OBP, lefthanders and versatility and then when /if if he hit's free agency tackle it then. If he get's extended by Boston so be it. It will not crush the rebuild but trading for him and hoping for an extension just might crush it. The elephant you talked about is a Mastodon like those LOTR's creatures and you aren't doing them any favors putting them in a position for even bigger mistakes.

Yea i didn't mind the Maybin signing and in my scenario Holt has played plenty of OF but not CF which is where Maybe comes in or in my case Gardner who gives you the , LH ,OBP ( not great but not bad depending on his batting average) and the power . I know Collins needs a look as do many others like Kopech, Cease, Lopez, Robert and Madrigal so not sure the division is realistic next year with a whole bunch of basically guys in their 1st seasons. I'm thinking Eloy turns into our version of JDM next year which is why I thinkJDM isn't needed . Just too much bad D and not enough LH or versatility.

The Collins dilemma is the only thing bugging me. I really don't expect the Sox to contend because they need to make so many upgrades and I doubt they can pull them all off. Plus they need more/better result from Kopech, Cease, Lopez, Collins, Robert , Rodon, Dunning and Madrigal. Basically they are still too young in 2020. And I still don't like trading any of then except perhaps Collins . He will K a lot no matter what but if he can not be terrible behind the plate and a good arm and game caller and get on base and provide power , play some decent 1st base he really can be a key piece to the rebuild .

Why would they extend Ozuna when they have Carlson waiting to play ? Sox really need Bummer.