The Rotation and Covey Situation

[Dick Allen]

Ever regret starting a thread?

 

You say a guy who doesn't deserve being in the big leagues, doesn't deserve being in the big leagues, and all of sudden you're accused of being against the rebuild or even complaining.

 

I'm not complaining. I'm asking who is next, because Covey shouldn't pitch in the big leagues yet.

Yet you mention Danish and Fulmer. 2 guys that shouldn't be in the big leagues right now. I just hope when the Sox call their better prospects up now, it is for good. If they have to send them back down because they weren't ready, it was silly calling them up. There is no pressure to win here. Patience is the key to a rebuild. Not panicking because some guy who probably has no future with the team is getting lit up. I don't see why watching Danish get killed( if that appeals to you, you should have watched the Charlotte game on CSNthe other night), or to realize Fulmer isn't ready and have the usual suspects remind us they broke the story last year he is a reliever at best is a better option. For the future of the team, the best option right now is watching Covey struggle. Maybe he figures something out. I don't think they want to give him back to Oakland so it's either hide him or let him take his lumps.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Dick Allen

[turnin' two]

The Sox had plenty of second-tier position and bullpen guys who had performed reasonably well in AAA to give them an audition spot on the roster. Some of them are playing pretty well: Kahnle, Davidson, Leury, e.g.

 

But there aren't any starters like that. Thus the Sox had to sign Pelfrey. This would have been a nice year for a Junior Guerra to pop up, but one hasn't.

Danish would qualify, but he's not pitching well. Who else is there? Can Beck be stretched out? Does he have multiple pitches?

If there is no one, it's not like Covey is causing a lot of harm.

 

 

Source?

3.14 ERA, 1.08 WHIP, 3.2 K/BB, less than a H/IP, 1.6 BB/9. Not sure what any of that adds up to "not pitching well". With that being said, I think he was criminally rushed last season and is still 22. Burdi is the only pitcher on the roster that is younger than Danish. No reason he should be thrown to the wolves.

 

As for Covey, he is being thrown to the wolves. He has only made 6 starts above A ball. Maybe he will never be a decent MLB pitcher, but he is just finding his way. If not for being a rule 5 pick, he would likely be in AA.

 

[harkness99]

I would rather see the young guys then covey... unless it would be harmful to them.

 

But if they can handle sucking then they should be here.

[GreenSox]

Source?

5.2 IP, 7H, 8R, 5ER, 2 BB

[Rowand44]

Since when did had a bad game become isn't pitching well?

[SoxAce]

Whatever happened to all the rebuild guys, team must lose for draft picks? The guy has sucked. He is a rule 5 guy, and there is a 99.9% chance when you throw a rule 5 guy directly in a major league rotation, he will suck. The team is going nowhere. Why are the White Sox widely criticized on this board for "rushing" prospects, but every damn time there is the first sign of a guy sucking or of a minor leaguer going on a roll, the same people who b**** about it, want them to do what they b**** about?

 

Let guys develop. It isn't necessary to see what some of these guys can do at the major league level yet. Make sure they are ready. Let Covey get destroyed while that happens. A good week, a good 2 weeks, a good month isn't proof. If you really want a rebuild, you have to be patient or it isn't going to ever work.

 

I applaud you for this post DA. Nicely done.

[turnin' two]

5.2 IP, 7H, 8R, 5ER, 2 BB

 

 

Ah, I see, judging him by a single start. Prudent.

[fathom]

Ah, I see, judging him by a single start. Prudent.

 

Never been a big fan but he didn't look bad at all during this game, as it was on tv

[Bob Sacamano]

Whatever happened to all the rebuild guys, team must lose for draft picks? The guy has sucked. He is a rule 5 guy, and there is a 99.9% chance when you throw a rule 5 guy directly in a major league rotation, he will suck. The team is going nowhere. Why are the White Sox widely criticized on this board for "rushing" prospects, but every damn time there is the first sign of a guy sucking or of a minor leaguer going on a roll, the same people who b**** about it, want them to do what they b**** about?

 

Let guys develop. It isn't necessary to see what some of these guys can do at the major league level yet. Make sure they are ready. Let Covey get destroyed while that happens. A good week, a good 2 weeks, a good month isn't proof. If you really want a rebuild, you have to be patient or it isn't going to ever work.

 

Agreed. Let this guy pitch and take his lumps.

[fathom]

Agreed. Let this guy pitch and take his lumps.

 

He needs to give them innings though. Can't be going 4 innings like last night

[turnin' two]

He needs to give them innings though. Can't be going 4 innings like last night

 

 

That is true, but even last night wasn't terrible. It is good for Beck to get extended work too, and he likely wouldn't be used in higher leverage situations at this point.

[caulfield12]

 

Nobody expected the White Sox to be anywhere close to first place in the 2nd week of May. The Indians have been playing like a World Series hangover team and the Royals have the worst offense in baseball, and lost Ventura tragically. The Twins are in the same position as the White Sox (albeit Sano looks to be the second best young player in the division to Lindor), so that only leaves the Tigers and Indians as actual threats, with the Tigers clearly on the downside.

 

Q, Tim Anderson, Rodon, Saladino and Giolito have given the White Sox little compared to what they were expected to...not to mention Cabrera and Frazier.

 

The third argument is Kolek/Aiken/Rodon (none of them have set the world in fire 1-3 in the draft) or even Courtney Hawkins, that there are zero guarantees in the draft.

 

 

So instead of throwing Covey out there to be massacred, the argument goes...let's put Moncada, Fulmer and Burdi on the roster (as long as their service time/Super Two deadlines have been met) and see what they can do...the odds of someone who throws as hard as Burdi and being a member of the Sox bullpen making it into his arbitration years or getting extended (see Nate Jones) seems to be an argument that wouldn't prohibit them from recalling him, as well as the argument he could learn a lot more at the big league level around Don Cooper and veterans like Robertson, Shields, Gonzalez and Holland.

 

So what are the odds that Moncada could kick start the offense as a dynamic presence (especially impacting Anderson/Saladino/Cabrera)...that Fulmer could solidify the back end of the rotation and that Burdi could make the back end of the bullpen one of the most dominating in the game (especially when Nate Jones returns)?

 

Would that be rushing the rebuild?

 

I honestly don't know. The odds are certainly in favor of the Indians...all that said, it would be (and will be) fun to watch.

 

And that's without expecting anything out of Giolito or maybe even Lopez (surely we'll see him at some point, though) this year.

 

 

 

 

[fathom]

You don't call up anyone important that will impact their service time too soon. End of story

[Jake]

I wouldn't say Covey can't possibly be a major leaguer, but it's looking more and more like he won't be able to develop the ability by pitching in the majors right now.

[caulfield12]

Can we please have a pinned thread at the top of the page for service time accrued/exactly when their service time clock hits for 7th year/Super Two, etc.

 

My argument isn't to bring them up NOW if it would cost the White Sox anything in the above-mentioned areas.

 

With Carson Fulmer, who almost lost his rookie status last year in terms of IP, it seems that it woudn't matter if it was this week or next or two weeks from now, as long as the coaching staff at Charlotte were all in consensus. Frankly, I do think another 3-4 starts pitching as well as he has been would be okay, too.

 

Burdi is probably the least necessary of the 3 (that I suggested) with how well Swarzak and Kahnle have been pitching, which obviously won't last forever.

 

 

Moncada

Fulmer

Lopez

Giolito

 

Burdi

 

Delmonico and Hayes, although those are definitely lesser considerations compared to the first 4-5 guys. Kevan Smith would be the 3rd name right now at Charlotte, of the "second/third" tier guys.

Edited May 8, 2017 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

I wouldn't say Covey can't possibly be a major leaguer, but it's looking more and more like he won't be able to develop the ability by pitching in the majors right now.

 

Harrelson made the point that in the past, the Sox rushed guys like Ruffcorn, and I could assume he meant Garland, Daniel Hudson, McCarthy, etc., where they had to contribute right away to pennant-contending teams.

 

The White Sox aren't contending for anything this season, but there's a certain point where he keeps getting his head bashed in that it's counter-productive for Dylan and the organization to keep trotting him out there. At the very least, you put him in the Ynoa role if you REALLY want to hold onto him for the future (and you're indifferent about losing Ynoa) and make him earn his way back to a starting role later in the season.

[ChiSox59]

Whatever happened to all the rebuild guys, team must lose for draft picks? The guy has sucked. He is a rule 5 guy, and there is a 99.9% chance when you throw a rule 5 guy directly in a major league rotation, he will suck. The team is going nowhere. Why are the White Sox widely criticized on this board for "rushing" prospects, but every damn time there is the first sign of a guy sucking or of a minor leaguer going on a roll, the same people who b**** about it, want them to do what they b**** about?

 

Let guys develop. It isn't necessary to see what some of these guys can do at the major league level yet. Make sure they are ready. Let Covey get destroyed while that happens. A good week, a good 2 weeks, a good month isn't proof. If you really want a rebuild, you have to be patient or it isn't going to ever work.

 

 

To be fair, I was never one of those guys. I never thought this team was that bad. .500ish until major pieces are moved. So far I look like I'm right. In the meantime, I'm done watching Covey. I realize right now there isn't much in the way of options until we get healthy. So it probably is what it is. I am fine with the rebuild, but throwing Covey out there every 5th day is accomplishing nothing.

[soxforlife05]

Let's be real - guys like Danish aren't going to get a look at starting once Fulmer, Giolito, Lopez, and Kopech are up by next year. Could easily see all 4 in our rotation by early next season. Might as well see what we have now.

Edited May 8, 2017 by soxforlife05

[oldsox]

Never been a big fan but he didn't look bad at all during this game, as it was on tv

Yep. I am not a candidate for the Dylan Covey Fan Club, but there were a bunch of bloop hits by the O's. Still, let him miss a start with the off day, stick him in a relief role this week. The kid competed, showed some movement on his fastball, had a couple of tough breaks against a lucky team, etc. Some of you guys are putting him up there with Charlie Manson. He's not That bad.

Edited May 8, 2017 by oldsox

[tray]

Most minor league player will never be "ready" for the majors no matter how much seasoning they have. Others don't need more than a quick stint in the minor league before they are promoted and prove that they belong.

IMO Moncada is in the SECOND category. I expect that he will be promoted next week, some time on or soon after May 14.

Fulmer? He reminds me of Erik Johnson in a lot of ways. Hopefully Fulmer's career is not on a similar trajectory. I think Reynaldo Lopez profiles better as a major league starting pitcher than Fulmer, even though his record in the minors has not distinguished him to this point. I just don't know what to make of Giolito. He looks polished but the results have thus far been unremarkable.

Edited May 8, 2017 by miracleon35th

[SCCWS]

Dump Covey, go 6-man and bring up Fulmer and another guy for the rest of the month. Then re-evaluate when Shields is ready.

 

Rebuilding year. You do not dump Covey and bring up Fulmer to replace him. Instead you wait until Fulmer or Danish is "considered" ready and then you make the move. Young players getting called up should be based on their progress not on someone not performing at the ML level. Now if Anderdson and Saladino collide on a play and both are out for the year, then you may be forced to rush Moncada and Delmonico. If Q ends up on the DL then you may have to rush a starter from Charlotte to stay competitive. Otherwise patience is needed.

[turnin' two]

Let's be real - guys like Danish aren't going to get a look at starting once Fulmer, Giolito, Lopez, and Kopech are up by next year. Could easily see all 4 in our rotation by early next season. Might as well see what we have now.

 

 

Good point, I always seem to forget that all prospects pan out and that pitchers never get injured.

[Bob Sacamano]

Let's be real - guys like Danish aren't going to get a look at starting once Fulmer, Giolito, Lopez, and Kopech are up by next year. Could easily see all 4 in our rotation by early next season. Might as well see what we have now.

 

Well Kopech isn't going to be up next season (maybe September) so there's that. I do expect Rodon, Fulmer, Lopez, Giolito (hopefully) and Shields to be in the roster, barring a Shields trade. So there should be opportunity for Danish to get starts as the Sox usually are careful about watching guys' innings and skipping and giving more rest. Could even go 6-man rotation.

Edited May 8, 2017 by soxfan2014

[ChiSox59]

Well Kopech isn't going to be up next season (maybe September) so there's that. I do expect Rodon, Fulmer, Lopez, Giolito (hopefully) and Shields to be in the roster, barring a Shields trade. So there should be opportunity for Danish to get starts as the Sox usually are careful about watching guys' innings and skipping and giving more rest. Could even go 6-man rotation.

 

Point is, no time like the present to give some of the more fringe guys a shot.

 

By the way - Matt Cooper has thrown more than 2x the innings in AA than Covey. He is a guy that would be interesting and is going to have a tough time cracking the roster once the rotation includes Rodon, Giolito, Lopez and Fulmer. I'd much rather he get a few starts until Rodon/Lopez/Shields are in the rotation.

Edited May 8, 2017 by ChiSox59

[witesoxfan]

Covey shouldn't be in the rotation, but if they see anything at all in him, they are going to keep him on the big league roster. He should be the mop up guy, taking his licks that way. He'd still get around 80-100 innings and he'd face major leaguers.