Sox send Frazier/DRob/Kahnle to NY ~ Rutherford/Clarkin/Clippard/Polo

[SoxAce]

The OF talent in A Ball is incredible right now. We've got Jimenez, Basabe, Fisher, & Booker at High A and Rutherford, Adolfo, Gonzalez, & Schnursbusch at Low A. And that doesn't include Call & Robert who should theoretically be at ones of those levels right now.

 

I might have to take a trip to Birmingham next year. That team will finally have a squad worth following.

[BaconOnAStick]

The OF talent in A Ball is incredible right now. We've got Jimenez, Basabe, Fisher, & Booker at High A and Rutherford, Adolfo, Gonzalez, & Schnursbusch at Low A. And that doesn't include Call & Robert who should theoretically be at ones of those levels right now.

Before last year's draft their best OF prospect was probably Courtney Hawkins.

[hi8is]

... for only guy who will enter your top 20 or 25 prospects is not good to say the least.

I am so confused.

 

( how about two guys... one entering the best system in baseball at #6 and the other at #18 )

[hi8is]

I missed the live presser - anyone know of a link to replay it?

[credezcrew24]

Before last year's draft their best OF prospect was probably Courtney Hawkins.

 

yeahh... I don't think so

[chitownsportsfan]

yeahh... I don't think so

 

Engel? May? Mickerr? Slim pickings.

[credezcrew24]

Engel? May? Mickerr? Slim pickings.

 

Adolfo, May, Engel, Coats slim picking no doubt, but Hawkins?

[Quin]

Engel? May? Mickerr? Slim pickings.

 

Those three, that order.

[longshot7]

I missed the live presser - anyone know of a link to replay it?

 

I found it on the CSN twitter

 

[thxfrthmmrs]

Sox killed the Yankees on this trade. They only took Frazier to spite the Red Sox, and seeing what JD Martinez fetched there's not a lot of interest in average-ish second half rentals so even if he was only used to grease this deal its worth it.

 

Robertson is nowhere near the big relievers traded last year, you really think his stock improved that much from the Trade That Wasn't which would've netted the Sox Luzardo and Ward? Clarkin or Polo alone are worth Robertson.

 

Kahnle for Rutherford is robbery.

 

Robertson for two C level prospects? While he's not Chapman or even Andrew Miller, you are undervaluing him a lot here, especially with him being one of the few true closers available for trade. There are already several teams called about Robertson, and Yankees were bidding against the Red Sox here. Remember when most people expected a Top 100 prospect for Robertson just a couple days ago? That should have been the target. Let's not move that target to justify this trade.

 

We also traded Kahnle prematurely, given how underwhelming the total value we got in return. There is always a chance he's only a flash in the pan, but his peripherals and stuff says it's unlikely. He's making real improvements to his velocity and and absolutely shatters his previous swinging strike%. Both FB velocity and SwingStr% are among top 10 in the league. FIP and xFIP suggest he's elite. He's actually been unlucky with a BABIP much higher than career norm. There is a real chance he could be Andrew Miller (or close to it), if we waited it, we could have gotten a much better return next year.

[Jerksticks]

Robertson for two C level prospects? While he's not Chapman or even Andrew Miller, you are undervaluing him a lot here, especially with him being one of the few true closers available for trade. There are already several teams called about Robertson, and Yankees were bidding against the Red Sox here. Remember when most people expected a Top 100 prospect for Robertson just a couple days ago? That should have been the target. Let's not move that target to justify this trade.

 

We also traded Kahnle prematurely, given how underwhelming the total value we got in return. There is always a chance he's only a flash in the pan, but his peripherals and stuff says it's unlikely. He's making real improvements to his velocity and and absolutely shatters his previous swinging strike%. Both FB velocity and SwingStr% are among top 10 in the league. FIP and xFIP suggest he's elite. He's actually been unlucky with a BABIP much higher than career norm. There is a real chance he could be Andrew Miller (or close to it), if we waited it, we could have gotten a much better return next year.

Yea but I think ultimately, as others have posted, the Sox wanted to cash-in on Kahnle and avoid NateJones-style risk. And as Hahn mentioned in the presser, Rutherford is a guy the Sox have been really high on for some time. Seems like a perfect storm of being able to get the guy you want for only bullpen arms and shedding a BUNCH of salary. Can't dismiss the money savings- just the other day it seemed like the Sox would have to kick in a bunch of money just to get B&C level prospects for DRob and Frazsh.

 

The cost is selling Kahnle at maybe .80 on the dollar. The plus side is no more Kahnle risk, the guy you want, and about 20M dollars. Not bad for .80. I get both sides and I hated the deal at first, but now I'm all aboard.

 

The other guys have serious upside too!

[beautox]

nice piece on Polo from everyone's favorite pirate prospecting site

 

If the sox hit the lotto with Polo we're looking at Alejandro De Aza, the mid point would be rob Mackowiak and the low point would be org filler.

Edited July 19, 2017 by beautox

[caulfield12]

So now two former Pirates in Hanson and Polo with NL mindset...

 

 

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/yank...zeRYY1AwJ80t.97

Baseball America trade analysis

 

Clippard salary being taken back perceived as a key element of acquiring Rutherford....still have a good opportunity to deal Tyler these next six weeks as well.

 

Melky likely to go in August, potentially.

Edited July 19, 2017 by caulfield12

[thxfrthmmrs]

Yea but I think ultimately, as others have posted, the Sox wanted to cash-in on Kahnle and avoid NateJones-style risk. And as Hahn mentioned in the presser, Rutherford is a guy the Sox have been really high on for some time. Seems like a perfect storm of being able to get the guy you want for only bullpen arms and shedding a BUNCH of salary. Can't dismiss the money savings- just the other day it seemed like the Sox would have to kick in a bunch of money just to get B&C level prospects for DRob and Frazsh.

 

The cost is selling Kahnle at maybe .80 on the dollar. The plus side is no more Kahnle risk, the guy you want, and about 20M dollars. Not bad for .80. I get both sides and I hated the deal at first, but now I'm all aboard.

 

The other guys have serious upside too!

 

I don't like that mindset, that we need to trade every reliever as soon as they become good, but before they become great. Nate Jones has always been an injury prone. Same cannot be said about Kahnle. He's also have relatively low mileage on his arm, and his delivery doesn't put him at more risk than others. With that mindset, we may as well find new relievers every year because chance of them imploding the next year is so great. Anyways, I think in this case, the potential return outweighs the risk.

 

I'm also not sure if we're going to put the salary saving in use. We're not expected to compete next year, and the FA class is weak. And we can't overspend on international signing like we did with Robert either.

Edited July 19, 2017 by 2005thxfrthmmrs

[ChiSox59]

Isn't the roster still a man short? Yoan for Frazier, Goldberg for Kahnle. Who is taking D Robs spot?

 

Edit: forgot about Clippard for a sec.

Edited July 19, 2017 by ChiSox59

[Dominikk85]

I like what Hahn did in the last two deals. He went all out for the top guy and tanked the back end. The 3 and 4 guys of the cubs deal aren't prospects and clarkin is probably a quad A type but that allowed them getting the top guys.

 

Getting the top 100 guys cease, eloy and rutherford is more important than getting solid back end guys.

[Dominikk85]

Sox killed the Yankees on this trade. They only took Frazier to spite the Red Sox, and seeing what JD Martinez fetched there's not a lot of interest in average-ish second half rentals so even if he was only used to grease this deal its worth it.

 

Robertson is nowhere near the big relievers traded last year, you really think his stock improved that much from the Trade That Wasn't which would've netted the Sox Luzardo and Ward? Clarkin or Polo alone are worth Robertson.

 

Kahnle for Rutherford is robbery.

 

It basically was all three for rutherford. Polo is a non prospect and clarkin is polished but basically has a spot starter ceiling.

 

I like the deal but the yankees got three mlb players for rutherford and 2 guys that had no future with the yankees anyway plus the had the clippard salary taken.

 

Deal made sense for both teams. Yankees gave up one guy that really hurt but not much else and got three mlb players and white sox get that one really high upside guy.

[maggsmaggs]

Although I will admit on first blush this deal seems light, Clarkin is a guy who has produced whenever healthy. Seems in the mold of Spencer Adams, high floor, low ceiling, but has the looks of a 4/5 starter.

Edited July 19, 2017 by maggsmaggs

[Goober]

Ouch that's a big time trade loser

[Dominikk85]

Although I will admit on first blush this deal seems light, Clarkin is a guy who has produced whenever healthy. Seems in the mold of Spencer Adams, high floor, low ceiling, but has the looks of a 4/5 starter.

 

Well he is a soft tosser who strikes nobody out and is always injured. Maybe he has a chance to be a 5th starter but I doubt it. Also the injuries don't really make his floor that high.

 

The deal was mostly about rutherford but that is what hahn wanted, he packed three mlb players he could not use to get that one top prpspect that could become an all star. Maybe that is the deal the pushes the sox system past the braves as the number 1 system.

Edited July 19, 2017 by GermanSock

[caulfield12]

Except when/if Rutherford becomes a stud...at least a 2-3 war player, if not higher.

 

We knew the were going to dump Robertson's salary for ages. That's the least surprising move of the year. Six weeks ago, Frazier was going to have to go into the August claiming period to be moved.

 

Kahnle vs. Rutherford/Clarkin essentially becomes the trade.

 

Clippers becomes the closer and auditions for the Sox and every team in baseball through August 31st.

Edited July 19, 2017 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Well he is a soft tosser who strikes nobody out and is always injured. Maybe he has a chance to be a 5th starter but I doubt it.

 

The deal was mostly about rutherford.

 

89-93 is similar to Q.

Unless Q is now going to consistently throw 93-95 for the Cubs. It's the secondary stuff that's the problem.

 

And we can use all the quality LHP relievers we can get for when the team's fully competitive again.

Edited July 19, 2017 by caulfield12

[SoxAce]

Wasn't Clarkin a diehard Red Sox fan?

 

I know he loved the Diamondbacks when they won their World Series. He and his dad hated the Yankees though so this should be a smooth transaction for him.

[username]

Yankees fans seems to like Tito Polo. Guy has put up some intriguing numbers and brings what sounds like good speed and defense.

[iamshack]

I don't like that mindset, that we need to trade every reliever as soon as they become good, but before they become great. Nate Jones has always been an injury prone. Same cannot be said about Kahnle. He's also have relatively low mileage on his arm, and his delivery doesn't put him at more risk than others. With that mindset, we may as well find new relievers as year. I think in this case, the potential return outweighs the risk.

 

I'm also not sure if we're going to put the salary saving in use. We're not expected to compete next year, and the FA class is weak. And we can't overspend on international signing like we did with Robert either.

Yeah, I tend to agree with your take here.

 

It's very easy to start bundling anything left of value that we have to go after "that one last guy," but you probably are going to lose out on additional value had we been patient and taken a calculated risk.

 

I find it difficult to accept the argument that a guy that is currently dominating at the ML level is likely to regress to nothing, but simultaneously throw a ton of stock into a kid from A-ball becoming a good mlb player.

 

I argued that it might be worth it to do this for a guy like Robles, and so if the White Sox truly believe in Rutherford, then it is difficult for me to criticize the FO.

 

But I agree with you and some others here - we likely overpaid to get "our guy," and I truly do think Kahnle has a chance to be a pretty dominant reliever for the Yankees as they make their run over the next several years.