Sox trade for Yonder Alonso; Alex Call to CLE

[jenksycat]

Its laughable how 9 million dollars is somehow going to save Cleveland and allow allow them to sign 3 studs and also sinking the Sox and crushing the rebuild due to the financial burden.

Desperate for some real news

[Lip Man 1]

On 12/16/2018 at 3:27 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Cleveland is drowning and one bad season from going full rebuild. They are trying to retool on the fly. Still much better pitching than the Sox . Add one or both whales  Add Kopech Cease maybe Dunning sign Sale to starting staff and Sox quickly on the rise while Cleveland sinks.

I seriously can't see a scenario where Chris Sale ever returns to the Sox as long as the current front office is in place. Too much history there.

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Cleveland is drowning and one bad season from going full rebuild. They are trying to retool on the fly. Still much better pitching than the Sox . Add one or both whales  Add Kopech Cease maybe Dunning sign Sale to starting staff and Sox quickly on the rise while Cleveland sinks.

You're forgetting that Lindor, Jose Ramirez and Kluber/Bauer (or his trade value) represent a significant amount of WAR...just those four are probably comparable to the entire White Sox team from last year.

[Dam8610]

Since I'm assuming this is now the default Machado thread...

They should not let Machado leave the building tomorrow without a contract. Best way to ensure he doesn't sign with the Yankees is sign him before they meet.

[ron883]

Just now, Dam8610 said:

Since I'm assuming this is now the default Machado thread...

They should not let Machado leave the building tomorrow without a contract. Best way to ensure he doesn't sign with the Yankees is sign him before they meet.

Are you suggesting they hold him hostage until he signs?

[Sleepy Harold]

12 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

Since I'm assuming this is now the default Machado thread...

They should not let Machado leave the building tomorrow without a contract. Best way to ensure he doesn't sign with the Yankees is sign him before they meet.

A very NFL style approach to FA meetings.

[Dam8610]

18 minutes ago, Hot FiRe said:

Are you suggesting they hold him hostage until he signs?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. 

 

It's a commonly used phrase in the sports world to mean do everything you can while he's there to sign him, though teams have in fact made it difficult but not impossible for players to physically leave during successful contract negotiations before.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Dam8610

[Dam8610]

7 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

A very NFL style approach to FA meetings.

Hey, whatever makes Machado sign with the White Sox.

[caulfield12]

At least that's (signing a contract) more binding than a D-1 basketball or football scholarship.

Can we get a internet detective to start tracking private plane tail numbers (arriving at Midway...?)  Yainee Machado or the Alonso family.

Edited December 17, 2018 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Cleveland is drowning and one bad season from going full rebuild. They are trying to retool on the fly. Still much better pitching than the Sox . Add one or both whales  Add Kopech Cease maybe Dunning sign Sale to starting staff and Sox quickly on the rise while Cleveland sinks.

Cleveland has a better cheap young core than the White Sox or anyone else in the division...by a wide margin.

And if they're drowning Rick Hahn just gave them a life preserver. Of course they aren't drowning, just figuring this is a good time to retool because they'll still be better than the rest of the division without Bauer or Kluber or both. 
 

Edited December 17, 2018 by GreenSox

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I seriously can't see a scenario where Chris Sale ever returns to the Sox as long as the current front office is in place. Too much history there.

Sale was just an example of a front line starter for next year.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

You're forgetting that Lindor, Jose Ramirez and Kluber/Bauer (or his trade value) represent a significant amount of WAR...just those four are probably comparable to the entire White Sox team from last year.

For now...

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

24 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Cleveland has a better cheap young core than the White Sox or anyone else in the division...by a wide margin.

And if they're drowning Rick Hahn just gave them a life preserver. Of course they aren't drowning, just figuring this is a good time to retool because they'll still be better than the rest of the division without Bauer or Kluber or both. 
 

Yes that huge $9M life preserver should make all the difference in the world to them. All I said was one bad season. They won't be getting much competition within the division next year but we shall see after that.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yes that huge $9M life preserver should make all the difference in the world to them. All I said was one bad season. They won't be getting much competition within the division next year but we shall see after that.

But chopping off almost $50 million in the form of Edwin Encarnacion (took some back in Santana), Gomes, Alonso, Brantley and C. Allen is more significant.

Then they move Kluber's huge salary for someone like Verdugo/Pederson, a catching or pitching prospect and Puig (one year remaining)...they can cut another significant chunk.

It also allows them to pay Lindor $300 million for an extension, and gives them a rotation of Carrasco/Bauer/Clevinger/Bieber/Santana.  That's STILL a MUCH better rotation than the White Sox can throw out there.    If they really want to go crazy, they can trade Bauer for O'Neill, Jordan Hicks and another top Cardinals prospect, although that would start to leave their rotation too thin, having to rely on Santana.

Next year, they get rid of the last remaining "bad" contract in Jason Kipnis.

Edited December 17, 2018 by caulfield12

[Quin]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

But chopping off almost $50 million in the form of Edwin Encarnacion (took some back in Santana), Gomes, Alonso, Brantley and C. Allen is more significant.

Then they move Kluber's huge salary for someone like Verdugo/Pederson, a catching or pitching prospect and Puig (one year remaining)...they can cut another significant chunk.

It also allows them to pay Lindor $300 million for an extension, and gives them a rotation of Carrasco/Bauer/Clevinger/Bieber/Santana.  That's STILL a MUCH better rotation than the White Sox can throw out there.    If they really want to go crazy, they can trade Bauer for O'Neill, Jordan Hicks and another top Cardinals prospect, although that would start to leave their rotation too thin, having to rely on Santana.

Next year, they get rid of the last remaining "bad" contract in Jason Kipnis.

For the sake of arguments, the Sox taking Alonso is less crucial because they cut all that other cash.

[Chicago White Sox]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

But chopping off almost $50 million in the form of Edwin Encarnacion (took some back in Santana), Gomes, Alonso, Brantley and C. Allen is more significant.

Then they move Kluber's huge salary for someone like Verdugo/Pederson, a catching or pitching prospect and Puig (one year remaining)...they can cut another significant chunk.

It also allows them to pay Lindor $300 million for an extension, and gives them a rotation of Carrasco/Bauer/Clevinger/Bieber/Santana.  That's STILL a MUCH better rotation than the White Sox can throw out there.    If they really want to go crazy, they can trade Bauer for O'Neill, Jordan Hicks and another top Cardinals prospect, although that would start to leave their rotation too thin, having to rely on Santana.

Next year, they get rid of the last remaining "bad" contract in Jason Kipnis.

Their offseason moves have been strictly about maintaining a competitive roster for 2019 and have nothing to do with freeing up enough cash for Lindor.  You’re really reaching if you think they can now suddenly afford a $300M extension for him.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

But chopping off almost $50 million in the form of Edwin Encarnacion (took some back in Santana), Gomes, Alonso, Brantley and C. Allen is more significant.

Then they move Kluber's huge salary for someone like Verdugo/Pederson, a catching or pitching prospect and Puig (one year remaining)...they can cut another significant chunk.

It also allows them to pay Lindor $300 million for an extension, and gives them a rotation of Carrasco/Bauer/Clevinger/Bieber/Santana.  That's STILL a MUCH better rotation than the White Sox can throw out there.    If they really want to go crazy, they can trade Bauer for O'Neill, Jordan Hicks and another top Cardinals prospect, although that would start to leave their rotation too thin, having to rely on Santana.

Next year, they get rid of the last remaining "bad" contract in Jason Kipnis.

So far they are $18M ahead. Lindor isn't signing an extension, I already said Cleveland's  pitching is better. Why do fans always insist that guys are going to sign an extension ? It rarely happens when you are talking about megabucks. You can try to sell me on Cleveland all you want. I never said they were bad . I said they are 1 bad season away from rebuilding. by 2020 the gap should be closed between us by quite a bit.

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So far they are $18M ahead. Lindor isn't signing an extension, I already said Cleveland's  pitching is better. Why do fans always insist that guys are going to sign an extension ? It rarely happens when you are talking about megabucks. You can try to sell me on Cleveland all you want. I never said they were bad . I said they are 1 bad season away from rebuilding. by 2020 the gap should be closed between us by quite a bit.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/cleveland-indians/payroll/

They ended last year at $135 million.   They’re currently in the mid $80’s.   Trading Kluber pushes them down into the high $60’s.  Then you have to add Lindor and Bauer’s arbitration salaries back in.

Only if they make the determination they can’t keep Lindor OR Ramirez will they absolutely have to tear it all down.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Quinarvy said:

For the sake of arguments, the Sox taking Alonso is less crucial because they cut all that other cash.

In fairness the Alonso deal doubled what they have saved so far taking them from $9M tp $18M saved. Still not a significant amount. They've been operating higher than they want as far as payroll goes to keep their window open but its closing fast and they lost a lot of good pieces from their 25 already. They had 8 FA's non tendered Chisenhall who promptly signed with the Pirates, Donaldson gone  he wasn't on the original 8 I listed. Traded Encarnacion, Alsonso, Yan Gomes, Yandy Diaz;

Their OF is in shambles and their relief pitching took a big hit. If it wasn't for Lindor and Ramirez their 40 looks as bad as ours and that's right now while we wait to see if the fishing is good.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/cleveland-indians/payroll/

They ended last year at $135 million.   They’re currently in the mid $80’s.   Trading Kluber pushes them down into the high $60’s.  Then you have to add Lindor and Bauer’s arbitration salaries back in.

Only if they make the determination they can’t keep Lindor OR Ramirez will they absolutely have to tear it all down.

I've been all over their message boards and the tweets. My $18M is correct . I can't go over every contract they dealt  and lost and received. Don't forget they extended Carrasco.

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I've been all over their message boards and the tweets. My $18M is correct . I can't go over every contract they dealt  and lost and received. Don't forget they extended Carrasco.

Yeah, at almost the same rate we’re paying Nova to be James Shields II, though.

 

The deal will pay him the same $9.75 million his 2019 option had paid, will increase his now-torn-up 2020 option to $10.25 from $9.5 million and will pay him $12 million in both 2021 and 2022. The option for 2023 is worth $14 million and comes with a $3 million buyout.

Even with the new contract, Carrasco remains one of the biggest bargains in baseball following another excellent season for the Tribe. He went 17-10 with a 3.38 ERA and 231/43 K/BB ratio in 192 innings.

Cleveland intends to trade at least one of its front line starters, but now that Carrasco is under this team-friendly deal for several years, it’ll almost certainly be Trevor Bauer or Corey Kluber on the block.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Yeah, at almost the same rate we’re paying Nova to be James Shields II, though.

 

The deal will pay him the same $9.75 million his 2019 option had paid, will increase his now-torn-up 2020 option to $10.25 from $9.5 million and will pay him $12 million in both 2021 and 2022. The option for 2023 is worth $14 million and comes with a $3 million buyout.

Even with the new contract, Carrasco remains one of the biggest bargains in baseball following another excellent season for the Tribe. He went 17-10 with a 3.38 ERA and 231/43 K/BB ratio in 192 innings.

Cleveland intends to trade at least one of its front line starters, but now that Carrasco is under this team-friendly deal for several years, it’ll almost certainly be Trevor Bauer or Corey Kluber on the block.

2019 is irrelevant to the discussion  by 2020 we should be competing with Cleveland. Out of 30 teams their Farm was ranked 25 at the end of the season. Ours was 3rd. The gap between us and them is closing rapidly. We have money to spend they don't.

By 2020 we should have a pretty good idea about a lot of our top prospects abilities . Eloy this year, Cease and Kopech should be in the rotation,  maybe Dunning too. We give Lopez Giolito Moncada another year to figure things out . We see how close Robert,Madrigal and the next wave of OF's are doing. Maybe Hansen finds his mojo again. Add Harper or Machado and a top tier starting pitcher next off season to take some pressure off the young guys. We have the 3rd pick in the upcoming draft. Need I go on ?

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

2019 is irrelevant to the discussion  by 2020 we should be competing with Cleveland. Out of 30 teams their Farm was ranked 25 at the end of the season. Ours was 3rd. The gap between us and them is closing rapidly. We have money to spend they don't.

By 2020 we should have a pretty good idea about a lot of our top prospects abilities . Eloy this year, Cease and Kopech should be in the rotation,  maybe Dunning too. We give Lopez Giolito Moncada another year to figure things out . We see how close Robert,Madrigal and the next wave of OF's are doing. Maybe Hansen finds his mojo again. Add Harper or Machado and a top tier starting pitcher next off season to take some pressure off the young guys. We have the 3rd pick in the upcoming draft. Need I go on ?

Sure, all those things might be true, but unless we add Machado or Harper, the setbacks with Kopech, Moncada and Giolito this past year definitely pushed us back to 2021...barring the willingness to spend another $100+ million on a legit CFer and a veteran stabilizer for the rotation (in addition to that $325+ million, not to mention Colome, Alonso and Nova).

[HOFHurt35]

18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Sure, all those things might be true, but unless we add Machado or Harper, the setbacks with Kopech, Moncada and Giolito this past year definitely pushed us back to 2021...barring the willingness to spend another $100+ million on a legit CFer and a veteran stabilizer for the rotation (in addition to that $325+ million, not to mention Colome, Alonso and Nova).

Why would you pay $100 million + for a "Legit CF" which would block 3 of your best 10 prospects who can also play CF?   (Robert, Rutherford, Gonzalez).  If Luis Robert is not starting in CF by 2020, the Sox have bigger development issues than we thought. 

I'm OK with Moncada flopping at this point, but you better get stardom from Eloy and Robert once they land here. 

 

[Balta1701]

22 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Sure, all those things might be true, but unless we add Machado or Harper, the setbacks with Kopech, Moncada and Giolito this past year definitely pushed us back to 2021...barring the willingness to spend another $100+ million on a legit CFer and a veteran stabilizer for the rotation (in addition to that $325+ million, not to mention Colome, Alonso and Nova).

Then we need to do our jobs and add a Machado or Harper.