1 hour ago, mac9001 said:

My issue with Hahn and the Sox in general is they always take a half assed approach to going all in. I think the Lynn trade was the type of move you make after you've already added a quality arm. Kimbrel would have been the perfect move (given the cost) once you've added an impact bat. If you're going to give away two quality mlb ready assets like the Sox did then leverage the farm and upgrade everything you can and we absolutely could have found a way to expand the deal to include Bryant. I would prefer when you make moves like this it was part of a larger more aggressive strategy. 

Yes 

32 minutes ago, Quin said:

You know what blows my mind? The Dodgers and Rays, the World Series teams with prospect firepower far outweighing the Sox (ESPECIALLY the Rays) were looking at Kimbrel and the Sox beat that by just saying "fine, take our second baseman of the future. We're not wasting this window." I was a Nick fan and I love that, because Nicky was the most expendable of the core.

it is crazy, and should satisfy those that want to see the FO “send a message” and “run with the big boys” and the like 

39 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I can handle any RF combo among Engel, Goodwin. Leury, Sheets but the catching duo now is just ugly and will not help 1 iota in the playoffs if  Air Grandal gets grounded.

 I wanted Gomes bad. A's gave up 3 prospects for Gomes and Josh Harrison. No idea how good any of them are. This is a partial summation of Gomes from MLBTraderumors: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/07/nationals-trade-josh-harrison-yan-gomes-athletics.html

"Gomes, 34, is in the second season of a two-year, $10MM contract and has gotten out to a strong start, hitting at a .271/.323/.454 clip with nine homers, 11 doubles and a triple as the primary backstop in D.C — a demonstrable uptick from the league-average .226/.307/.387 slash posted by catchers so far in 2022. He’ll pair with Sean Murphy to give the A’s a pair of backstops who are outpacing that average level of offense behind the plate. Gomes also carries a terrific defensive reputation, which is supported by strong framing numbers and a robust 36 percent caught-stealing rate on the year. "

A's upgraded one of the best catchers  and framers in baseball  with another good catcher. They didn't even need him that much.

 I agree that adding a veteran catcher is probably a wise move. One hopes Grandal can recover to the point where he can catch and throw a runner out, but understandably, that might be a challenge given his leg injury.

12 minutes ago, tray said:

 I agree that adding a veteran catcher is probably a wise move. One hopes Grandal can recover to the point where he can catch and throw a runner out, but understandably, that might be a challenge given his leg injury.

Was probably a wise move. Can't do it now unless some catcher is released and he sure won't be the quality of Gomes.

The absolute gold standard for an organization.

Edited July 31, 20214 yr by ron883

Trevor Bauer  not looking so golden now though Ron, know what I mean?

He lives!!!!!!

( Those who know… know. )

 

2 minutes ago, hi8is said:

He lives!!!!!!

( Those who know… know. )

 

“Mengleheart… easily replaceable because we took another shortstop in the draft. I’m surprised they didn’t want Jake burger because he isn’t hurt like Mengleheart.”

PURE GOLD

7 hours ago, Quin said:

That league average bat in our lineup is a switch-hitting gold glover on pace for 30 home runs - and he's hitting eighth behind Anderson, Moncada find his rhythm, Abreu, Eloy, Grandal, Robert, and Vaughn. After him is a combo of Goodwin, Sheets, and Engel. 

We've seen with this lineup that hitting is contagious, especially those homers. With Eloy, Grandal, and Robert coming back, Cesar lighting a fuse is gonna be real fun.

Several weeks ago I and others opined the need for two relief pitchers (one of them being the late-inning type) and a second baseman.  We got about the best available of what we asked for.

4 hours ago, hi8is said:

He lives!!!!!!

( Those who know… know. )

 

Lime(Line) Hendriks

9 hours ago, mac9001 said:

My issue with Hahn and the Sox in general is they always take a half assed approach to going all in. I think the Lynn trade was the type of move you make after you've already added a quality arm. Kimbrel would have been the perfect move (given the cost) once you've added an impact bat. If you're going to give away two quality mlb ready assets like the Sox did then leverage the farm and upgrade everything you can and we absolutely could have found a way to expand the deal to include Bryant. I would prefer when you make moves like this it was part of a larger more aggressive strategy. 

It sounds like your saying if we can't make a deal for our top need so we won't make any moves to improve the team? 

 

I can't help wondering if Hahn traded Madrigal partly because of the two infielders he got at the top of this draft, thiinkng that one of them will be ready in 2 years or so?

7 minutes ago, oldsox said:

I can't help wondering if Hahn traded Madrigal partly because of the two infielders he got at the top of this draft, thiinkng that one of them will be ready in 2 years or so?

That's got to be part of the evaluation. Also they have to predict how he'll recover from surgery, future health issues,  etc. 

9 minutes ago, oldsox said:

I can't help wondering if Hahn traded Madrigal partly because of the two infielders he got at the top of this draft, thiinkng that one of them will be ready in 2 years or so?

That must play into it as does RH wanting to win now.  I will miss Nick but it was the right thing to do IMO.

Very unlikely kath or Montgomery are ready in 2 years. Think about how covid interrupted their development, and Montgomery is a cold weather kid

26 minutes ago, oldsox said:

I can't help wondering if Hahn traded Madrigal partly because of the two infielders he got at the top of this draft, thiinkng that one of them will be ready in 2 years or so?

They've been trying to trade him for a while.  They figured out he wasn't the player they thought they were getting pretty early.  I am a little surprised this is the deal they decided to pull the trigger on. 

My question is if they knew or thought there was a possibility they were going to trade him why didn't they go harder after Adam Frazier.  

2 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They've been trying to trade him for a while.  They figured out he wasn't the player they thought they were getting pretty early.  I am a little surprised this is the deal they decided to pull the trigger on. 

My question is if they knew or thought there was a possibility they were going to trade him why didn't they go harder after Adam Frazier.  

After seeing the package Frazier went for….it’s a fair question. 

32 minutes ago, Texsox said:

That's got to be part of the evaluation. Also they have to predict how he'll recover from surgery, future health issues,  etc. 

Good point. I know there were some medicals for Kimbrel to pass. Wonder if it was the same for Madrigal?

19 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They've been trying to trade him for a while.  They figured out he wasn't the player they thought they were getting pretty early.  I am a little surprised this is the deal they decided to pull the trigger on. 

My question is if they knew or thought there was a possibility they were going to trade him why didn't they go harder after Adam Frazier.  

I think they just felt Kimbrel was more valuable to a World Series run. If they could have gotten Kimbrel or Frazier for free, but they had to choose just one, I think they are taking Kimbrel. 

1 Unit of fWAR in FA=$8.0 million

 

Craig Kimbrel

2019  -1.1

2020   0.3 (prorated)

2021   3.4 (prorated)

Net=2.6/3 years

 

Liam Hendriks

2019  3.8

2020  3.8

2021  2.4

Net=10.0/3 years

Just now, SoxBlanco said:

I think they just felt Kimbrel was more valuable to a World Series run. If they could have gotten Kimbrel or Frazier for free, but they had to choose just one, I think they are taking Kimbrel. 

Oh definitely. Frazier makes sense if you’re up 1 game in your division and need every hit.

I also do wonder if “Frazier has never been anywhere this good and we want to have some confidence in what we paid for next year” fits in.

1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said:

I think they just felt Kimbrel was more valuable to a World Series run. If they could have gotten Kimbrel or Frazier for free, but they had to choose just one, I think they are taking Kimbrel. 

Of course, you also have to consider the difference in salaries…if not the fact Kimbrel arguably cost a lot more in talent.

Frazier heading for a 4.3 fWAR at his current pace.  And can play 2B/LF very well, and RF above average.

 

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Oh definitely. Frazier makes sense if you’re up 1 game in your division and need every hit.

I also do wonder if “Frazier has never been anywhere this good and we want to have some confidence in what we paid for next year” fits in.

2.2 and 1.8 in 2017 and 2018, followed by a very disappointing 2019.

Maybe it would have been better to just get Wong as Fathom argued, and trade Madrigal+ for pitching in the offseason.  Of course, his peak trade value was during the 2-3 weeks before the season ending injury. 

49 minutes ago, bmags said:

Very unlikely kath or Montgomery are ready in 2 years. Think about how covid interrupted their development, and Montgomery is a cold weather kid

COVID didn't really impact youth baseball ask Fathom.

Big part of this deal: in Hahn's presser he stated they have Cesar and Craig for 2022 and that was an important part of both deals. So pencil them in and that makes it much more reasonable to justify for all those mad about Madrigal. 2 playoff runs of Kimbrel is > Madrigal for 4 years (im assuming he injures himself 1 more time)