White Sox linked to Manaea/Montas

[southsider2k5]

 

[Colome's Hat]

[CentralChamps21]

Montas has 2 years of control compared to 1 for Manaea, but Manaea is better and I'd rather gamble that he'll sign an extension to stay home.

[chw42]

2 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Montas has 2 years of control compared to 1 for Manaea, but Manaea is better and I'd rather gamble that he'll sign an extension to stay home.

Montas is better than Manaea. 

[BigHurt3515]

Manaea is basically a 4 ERA guy, so would probably be our #4. Would rather have Montas

[chw42]

5 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

Manaea is basically a 4 ERA guy, so would probably be our #4. Would rather have Montas

Manaea should cost considerably less than Montas. Montas probably costs a top 100 prospect, something we don't have. 

[Balta1701]

I seriously think the ship on "Getting another starter" sailed when they signed Velasquez to a big league deal. Even assuming that Kimbrel is moved, if they were to add Manea, their bullpen becomes this weird 8 person mess with the 4 big names, Crochet, Keuchel, Lopez, and Velasquez. That's 4 guys who are possible long-men, but only 1 of whom can actually be sent to Charlotte to be stretched out, and that's Crochet - who happens to be the one least likely to be sent down to be stretched out (all the others are on big league deals or have no options). So you've got this weird setup with 3/4 long men, none of whom seems likely to be used often enough to be stretched out for more than 2-3 innings, and none of whom can be moved off the roster without a buyout or injury? This just makes no sense. If there's a double-header, they'll either be having Keuchel go 3 innings as a start or they'll be calling someone up anyway from the pool of guys we already don't trust? 

I think they checked on these guys a couple days ago, found the prices to be too high, knew they needed someone who could potentially cover additional innings, and that's where Velasquez came from.

[chitownsportsfan]

The bullpen "mess" will sort itself out. Get another starter.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I seriously think the ship on "Getting another starter" sailed when they signed Velasquez to a big league deal. Even assuming that Kimbrel is moved, if they were to add Manea, their bullpen becomes this weird 8 person mess with the 4 big names, Crochet, Keuchel, Lopez, and Velasquez. That's 4 guys who are possible long-men, but only 1 of whom can actually be sent to Charlotte to be stretched out, and that's Crochet - who happens to be the one least likely to be sent down to be stretched out (all the others are on big league deals or have no options). So you've got this weird setup with 3/4 long men, none of whom seems likely to be used often enough to be stretched out for more than 2-3 innings, and none of whom can be moved off the roster without a buyout or injury? This just makes no sense. If there's a double-header, they'll either be having Keuchel go 3 innings as a start or they'll be calling someone up anyway from the pool of guys we already don't trust? 

I think they checked on these guys a couple days ago, found the prices to be too high, knew they needed someone who could potentially cover additional innings, and that's where Velasquez came from.

This is going to be a weird season, at least early on, where multiple long guys are needed.

[maloney.adam]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I seriously think the ship on "Getting another starter" sailed when they signed Velasquez to a big league deal. Even assuming that Kimbrel is moved, if they were to add Manea, their bullpen becomes this weird 8 person mess with the 4 big names, Crochet, Keuchel, Lopez, and Velasquez. That's 4 guys who are possible long-men, but only 1 of whom can actually be sent to Charlotte to be stretched out, and that's Crochet - who happens to be the one least likely to be sent down to be stretched out (all the others are on big league deals or have no options). So you've got this weird setup with 3/4 long men, none of whom seems likely to be used often enough to be stretched out for more than 2-3 innings, and none of whom can be moved off the roster without a buyout or injury? This just makes no sense. If there's a double-header, they'll either be having Keuchel go 3 innings as a start or they'll be calling someone up anyway from the pool of guys we already don't trust? 

I think they checked on these guys a couple days ago, found the prices to be too high, knew they needed someone who could potentially cover additional innings, and that's where Velasquez came from.

Ehhh I wouldn’t worry too much about this. If Kimbrel gets traded than one of them gets moved up in the bullpen. If they don’t re-sign Tepera there’s an open spot and there’s always the possibility that Lopez is included in a trade.

Edited March 15, 2022 by maloney.adam

[Balta1701]

Just now, maloney.adam said:

Ehhh I wouldn’t worry too much about this. If Kimbrel gets traded than one of them gets moved up in the bullpen. If they don’t re-sign Tepera there’s an open spot and there’s always the possibility that Lopez is included in a trade.

If Kimbrel is traded but a starter is added, then there's still a guaranteed 8 man bullpen the entire year - unless Crochet is sent down. Adding anyone else (including keeping Kimbrel) would create a 9 man bullpen (probably would happen a few times for double headers and stuff). That would leave the bench as Collins, Engel, and Leury. There is incredibly little roster flexibility in any of these situations - unless they have a way to dump Keuchel. If you have 2 or 3 players with minor injuries where you're trying to rest them for just a couple days, literally the only guy in the bullpen that could be sent down to clear a roster spot is Crochet. 

There are ways to make it work, but it's so messy that I'd be surprised if they didn't think about this before adding Velasquez. 

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This is going to be a weird season, at least early on, where multiple long guys are needed.

We already know that Kelly isn't supposed to break camp.

[maloney.adam]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If Kimbrel is traded but a starter is added, then there's still a guaranteed 8 man bullpen the entire year - unless Crochet is sent down. Adding anyone else (including keeping Kimbrel) would create a 9 man bullpen (probably would happen a few times for double headers and stuff). That would leave the bench as Collins, Engel, and Leury. There is incredibly little roster flexibility in any of these situations - unless they have a way to dump Keuchel. If you have 2 or 3 players with minor injuries where you're trying to rest them for just a couple days, literally the only guy in the bullpen that could be sent down to clear a roster spot is Crochet. 

There are ways to make it work, but it's so messy that I'd be surprised if they didn't think about this before adding Velasquez. 

If you thought last year was bad than your going to be glad they have more pitchers on their staff this year.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

If you thought last year was bad than your going to be glad they have more pitchers on their staff this year.

It's not just having more pitchers on their staff. It's that so many of them would be buried in the bullpen, and none can be sent down to Charlotte to stretch out.

Remember how Kopech spent July and August throwing an inning every 3 or 4 days? And threw basically 10 innings in each month, so he was totally not stretched out every time there was a double header? So despite a guy who should have been a good guy to start a double header game and throw a couple innings being on the roster, they still had to turn to Lambert? That's basically the setup they have right now. Throw in an extra long man, and the end result is going to be a lot of guys who either throw 1 inning outings and aren't stretched out, or throw 2-3 innings once a week.

[kleedawg]

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

It's not just having more pitchers on their staff. It's that so many of them would be buried in the bullpen, and none can be sent down to Charlotte to stretch out.

Remember how Kopech spent July and August throwing an inning every 3 or 4 days? And threw basically 10 innings in each month, so he was totally not stretched out every time there was a double header? So despite a guy who should have been a good guy to start a double header game and throw a couple innings being on the roster, they still had to turn to Lambert? That's basically the setup they have right now. Throw in an extra long man, and the end result is going to be a lot of guys who either throw 1 inning outings and aren't stretched out, or throw 2-3 innings once a week.

we are going to need a minimum of 6 sp this year as Kopech's innings will be limited and he'll probably wind up in the pen during post season. I still expect Keuchel to be tradedin apackage like the yanks did with Sanchez or the reds did with suarez. Lopez would be a swing man. But we still need 1 more reliable starter at least. 

How about Keuchel + 10 mil., cespedes, burger,  Colins, and Thompson to the reds for Castillo + maybe a catcher.or RP

[Saufley]

4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I seriously think the ship on "Getting another starter" sailed when they signed Velasquez to a big league deal. Even assuming that Kimbrel is moved, if they were to add Manea, their bullpen becomes this weird 8 person mess with the 4 big names, Crochet, Keuchel, Lopez, and Velasquez. That's 4 guys who are possible long-men, but only 1 of whom can actually be sent to Charlotte to be stretched out, and that's Crochet - who happens to be the one least likely to be sent down to be stretched out (all the others are on big league deals or have no options). So you've got this weird setup with 3/4 long men, none of whom seems likely to be used often enough to be stretched out for more than 2-3 innings, and none of whom can be moved off the roster without a buyout or injury? This just makes no sense. If there's a double-header, they'll either be having Keuchel go 3 innings as a start or they'll be calling someone up anyway from the pool of guys we already don't trust? 

I think they checked on these guys a couple days ago, found the prices to be too high, knew they needed someone who could potentially cover additional innings, and that's where Velasquez came from.

They screwed the pooch by signing Velasquez. With his history I don't get that signing at all. But, typical Sox move.

[Balta1701]

33 minutes ago, kleedawg said:

we are going to need a minimum of 6 sp this year as Kopech's innings will be limited and he'll probably wind up in the pen during post season. I still expect Keuchel to be tradedin apackage like the yanks did with Sanchez or the reds did with suarez. Lopez would be a swing man. But we still need 1 more reliable starter at least. 

How about Keuchel + 10 mil., cespedes, burger,  Colins, and Thompson to the reds for Castillo + maybe a catcher.or RP

I don't disagree with the need for extra pitching. I can even see it fitting into the bullpen as long relief and then being stretched out to start when needed. But...3 or 4 long relievers in an 8 man bullpen means none of them are actually long relievers, because they won't be used enough to be stretched out. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

40 minutes ago, kleedawg said:

we are going to need a minimum of 6 sp this year as Kopech's innings will be limited and he'll probably wind up in the pen during post season. I still expect Keuchel to be tradedin apackage like the yanks did with Sanchez or the reds did with suarez. Lopez would be a swing man. But we still need 1 more reliable starter at least. 

How about Keuchel + 10 mil., cespedes, burger,  Colins, and Thompson to the reds for Castillo + maybe a catcher.or RP

I don't get the impression the Reds are ready to trade either Castillo or Mahle or that they are rebuilding listening to their GM Nick Krall after the Winker and Suarez trades. He talked about opening some payroll space to sign some Free Agents. It could all be BS.

https://www.mlb.com/reds/video/krall-on-trading-winker-suarez?t=trade-talk

[michelangelosmonkey]

1 hour ago, kleedawg said:

we are going to need a minimum of 6 sp this year as Kopech's innings will be limited and he'll probably wind up in the pen during post season. I still expect Keuchel to be tradedin apackage like the yanks did with Sanchez or the reds did with suarez. Lopez would be a swing man. But we still need 1 more reliable starter at least. 

How about Keuchel + 10 mil., cespedes, burger,  Colins, and Thompson to the reds for Castillo + maybe a catcher.or RP

Why not Keuchel as our extra starter?  I know he was BAD last year...but he was top five CYA the year before that.  He is a great fielding, crafty lefty.  Right now we have four power arm righty starters...having Keuchel in the middle to screw up teams?  I mean he's on the roster and costs no prospects.  I know he is innings limited but with Lopez and Crochett and Keuchel it would seem like you could give everyone a bit of time off.  If Keuchel is terrible by the trade deadline...well then hopefully some of the very young prospects will be getting some buzz and we can trade for a stud starter for the playoffs.  

[caulfield12]

31 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Why not Keuchel as our extra starter?  I know he was BAD last year...but he was top five CYA the year before that.  He is a great fielding, crafty lefty.  Right now we have four power arm righty starters...having Keuchel in the middle to screw up teams?  I mean he's on the roster and costs no prospects.  I know he is innings limited but with Lopez and Crochett and Keuchel it would seem like you could give everyone a bit of time off.  If Keuchel is terrible by the trade deadline...well then hopefully some of the very young prospects will be getting some buzz and we can trade for a stud starter for the playoffs.  

Didn't work last year, had to trade Madrigal and Heuer from the big league roster...and if a young pitcher like Vera or Kelley makes a huge jump, the Sox will need that guy to sustain the window in 2024 and beyond as the veterans start to age out.

Edited March 15, 2022 by caulfield12

[michelangelosmonkey]

24 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Didn't work last year, had to trade Madrigal and Heuer from the big league roster...and if a young pitcher like Vera or Kelley makes a huge jump, the Sox will need that guy to sustain the window in 2024 and beyond as the veterans start to age out.

What didn't work?  They're bullpen was second in baseball by fWar...they won the division and went to the playoffs in a very injured year.   They traded for Kimbrel because at the trade deadline he was amazing and if he had kept it up...who knows?   Much easier to analyze trades after six months...and Cody is hurt, Madigral is always hurt...maybe Kimbrel bounces back.   Or, you know, we could just hate on everything.  

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

What didn't work?  They're bullpen was second in baseball by fWar...they won the division and went to the playoffs in a very injured year.   They traded for Kimbrel because at the trade deadline he was amazing and if he had kept it up...who knows?   Much easier to analyze trades after six months...and Cody is hurt, Madigral is always hurt...maybe Kimbrel bounces back.   Or, you know, we could just hate on everything.  

THE IDEA OF NOT TRADING ASSETS FROM THE BIG LEAGUE ROSTER...generally, playoff-bound teams should be trading from their minor league depth.

We're seeing the consequence this year with all the money we're miss-spending on Josh Harrison.

(And those arguments about injuries will just as easily apply to the big league roster this year as well, the starting pitching was remarkably healthy.)

 

If we're betting on the minor leagues again being a depository to draw from at the TDL, well, that's not exactly a sound plan.

Edited March 16, 2022 by caulfield12

[vilehoopster]

 

With this overloaded bullpen, what is the possibility of turning Crochet into a starter? Isn't it time? Send him down to AAA and carefully (I said carefully) start building his innings with the goal of bringing him up in August and/ or September as a five-inning starter. 

The problem with that, is that leaves Bummer as the only lefty in the bullpen. Keuchel? Maybe but I don't see that. If we could get another bullpen lefty, I really think it's time to turn Crochet into a starter. That will go a loooong way to solving future problems. 

 

[Tnetennba]

 

[Saufley]

13 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

 

For Montas. Who's willing to give them Vaughn?