What is rock bottom for this FO? What what would need to happen for a shakeup at the top?

[Chisoxfn]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I know there won’t be a lot of people, but what are the chances of a “Fire Rick Hahn” chant this season?

I’m ready for soxtalk to get a billboard. Is this not rock bottom already? Look the payroll of this roster vs the production. Look at the farm system, look at how far behind the analytics and development programs are. It is just a full blown 2nd class organization that needs a total utter overhaul. 

[Lip Man 1]

27 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Nothing that I can see.   While this is the bottom, there have been numerous cases of egregious incompetence, lawsuits over some gnarly stuff, et al that have resulted in no consequences to the perpetrators. 
Maybe KW will decide to retire.  At that point JR announces that he will hire a new VP of Ops.  When that new VP comes aboard, then he dispatch Hahn, Haber, Getz and the rest of the clowns.

KW will be around as long as he has a valid contract. Again I've been told that is supposed to go through the 2024 season. 

[BigHurt3515]

So depressing we seem to be years away from competitive baseball again. I am glad I spent the time and money to go to a playoff game, might be the only time for who knows how long. 

[chitownsportsfan]

6 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said:

So depressing we seem to be years away from competitive baseball again. I am glad I spent the time and money to go to a playoff game, might be the only time for who knows how long. 

24 months ago we were fucking rocking. I wonder what the FO thinks when they remember that. What an absolute s%*# 180. You sign Machado and say another key FA and who knows what happens last season, maybe you win 92 and win it all after, you never know. Not saying that was likely, but it would have at least been a good thrill to have tried.

[Dick Allen]

7 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Nothing will really change until JR is gone, it's really that simple and factual. 

Even if they were to fire Hahn and move Getz to GM, which, judging by the minor league rankings and develpment, would be ridiculous, the FO policy and concepts may be the same, but perhaps Getz goes after different players than Hahn. At least that would be some change. Keeping it exactly the same has gotten them in this mess. Change needs to happen today.

[caulfield12]

26 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Even if they were to fire Hahn and move Getz to GM, which, judging by the minor league rankings and develpment, would be ridiculous, the FO policy and concepts may be the same, but perhaps Getz goes after different players than Hahn. At least that would be some change. Keeping it exactly the same has gotten them in this mess. Change needs to happen today.

https://www.al.com/sports/2011/07/hot_corner_ex-baron_gordan_bec.html

Hot Corner: Ex-Baron Gordon Beckham should know better
 

Please at least don’t give Beckham the full time job when Benetti leaves…fortunately Getz doesn’t look as bad as Gordon will by today’s political lens. 

[bmags]

I mean if they could survive the laroche situation, sale jersey situation and a decade without playoffs, they can survive this.

[bmags]

caulfield with a post less relevant than the white sox.

[The Mighty Mite]

First move is to bring in AJ Pierzynski as manager, hiring a guy from a losing organization like the Royals was a huge mistake.

 

 

 

[The Mighty Mite]

14 minutes ago, bmags said:

I mean if they could survive the laroche situation, sale jersey situation and a decade without playoffs, they can survive this.

I’m not sure about surviving this mess but then again I went through the 68,69 and 1970 years when things were as bad as they got on the field and at the box office. The difference is those teams were bad but didn’t quit and we had some guys like Aparicio, Melton, May, Hermann and Wood who could play the game. We have quite a few on this team who look like they have quit and are also lacking baseball smarts. One more thing is that we all heard that there was dissension on the team last year, there is a possibility it’s still there.

Edited April 26, 2023 by The Mighty Mite

[bmags]

9 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I’m not sure about surviving this mess but then again I went through the 68,69 and 1970 years when things were as bad as they got on the field and at the box office. The difference is those teams were bad but didn’t quit and we had some guys like Aparicio, Melton, May, Hermann and Wood who could play the game. We have quite a few on this team who look like they have quit and are also lacking baseball smarts. One more thing is that we all heard that there was dissension on the team last year, there is a possibility it’s still there.

It's just so wild to me how consistently bad Hahn's teams end up. Look up north at the cubs. They have put together so many dominant defensive teams - which people rarely credit them with. But they value it, even finding a great position for Happ. The Cards the same.

The Twins org has prioritized power, and never stopped. ANd have gotten some premiere power teams and it looks like the case again. CLE has prioritized their pitching excellence supplementing it with strong defense and just enough offense from some superstar finds.

Hahn for the last decade has put teams on the field who are below average on defense, poor at getting on base, and slow. And the 2 years it was different it had strong power, which they consistently deprioritize for budget.

He is just so so so bad. The sox are so far behind as an org that swapping him out does nothing, but he in particular is just so bad at this job. 

[Tnetennba]

If you were a new owner walking into the Chairman’s office at 35th & Shields for the first time and were set to meet with the current Sox brass, is there even any one of them that you would keep around?  Is there anything anywhere in the org worth keeping?  Is there one single thing a new executive could identify that they currently do well?  I’m hard pressed to find one single thing on the baseball operations side I would keep in place.  Aside from Roger Bossard and the reputation for having top notch ballpark food, what does this org do well in any way?

[hogan873]

I know I'm not alone having stopped watching the games.  If I hadn't already bought tickets for one game (our annual get together with friends), I don't know if I would go to a game this season.  I had been planning on going to a few with my son home from college for the summer, but now neither of us have any interest.

I don't see attendance being so bad as to result in a change in the front office.  But I don't see how attendance won't take a significant hit.  This is a boring, bad team full of guys who don't care.  They say the right things in interviews and soundbites, but we see what we see on the field.

[bmags]

20 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

If you were a new owner walking into the Chairman’s office at 35th & Shields for the first time and were set to meet with the current Sox brass, is there even any one of them that you would keep around?  Is there anything anywhere in the org worth keeping?  Is there one single thing a new executive could identify that they currently do well?  I’m hard pressed to find one single thing on the baseball operations side I would keep in place.  Aside from Roger Bossard and the reputation for having top notch ballpark food, what does this org do well in any way?

Yeah I’d keep Bossard. I’d keep Jirschele.

[South Side Hit Men]

9 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

If you were a new owner walking into the Chairman’s office at 35th & Shields for the first time and were set to meet with the current Sox brass, is there even any one of them that you would keep around?  Is there anything anywhere in the org worth keeping?  Is there one single thing a new executive could identify that they currently do well?  I’m hard pressed to find one single thing on the baseball operations side I would keep in place.  Aside from Roger Bossard and the reputation for having top notch ballpark food, what does this org do well in any way?

Objectively, there are many good to solid/great employees throughout the organization, most are unsung and not in the public spotlight in anyway, at least as known quantities, in addition to the long time stalwarts people do know such as Roger Bossard or Gene Honda.

You replace the six senior officers (SVP and up listed below) and perhaps others in in addition to bringing in someone to rebuild baseball operations and you can turn this around in possibly in 3-4 years. Pizer did a great job as a finance guy and managing both two stadiums (he works on behalf of the Bulls stadium as well) and overseeing finance, but he is 50 years into his career and due for retirement. Kenny announced his retirement / departure when his deal is up (2024?).

It sounds as though Brooks Boyer is pushing to be the next John McDonough and he definitely needs to go after nothing but stale promotions and severe cutbacks to the season ticket perks he started when he first took over that were really thoughtful and creative. Not to mention his backstabbing and douchebaggery exposed over the years. Hahn and Reifert, hard pass.

https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/team/front-office

Officers

Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf
Senior Executive Vice President Howard Pizer
Executive Vice President Ken Williams
Senior Vice President/General Manager Rick Hahn
Senior Vice President, Chief Revenue and Marketing Officer Brooks Boyer
Senior Vice President, Communications Scott Reifert

[Sarava]

They need to find an assistant from a progressive organization like Tampa or Cleveland and give them the keys to rebuild the whole foundation of the White Sox.

[soxrwhite]

Are we rooting for rock bottom? 

 

 

 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

What would need to happen for a shakeup at the top? There's only one answer to this....  And it has to do with someone dying.

[WilliamTell]

I think rock bottom is them somehow becoming the team they were supposed to be from here on out. Finishing with another roughly .500 record, which means we'll be doing the same ol' nonsense next year. At a very near point I'm unfortunately going to hope for 100+ losses because the incompetence of this organization is elite. I know this is a White Sox board, but I'm so lucky to at least root for the Chiefs since around the same time I started liking the White Sox in 1993. The Chiefs are a night and day difference with how they're ran under the Andy Reid era.

[FloydBannister1983]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I’m not sure about surviving this mess but then again I went through the 68,69 and 1970 years when things were as bad as they got on the field and at the box office. The difference is those teams were bad but didn’t quit and we had some guys like Aparicio, Melton, May, Hermann and Wood who could play the game. We have quite a few on this team who look like they have quit and are also lacking baseball smarts. One more thing is that we all heard that there was dissension on the team last year, there is a possibility it’s still there.

Yeah I’m not sure you can say they’ve “survived”.  Yes they still happen to exist as an organization.  But we were told, by regular commenters on here and in the media, that this would be a resurgence and they would rival the Cubs in terms of popularity.  Does anyone seriously see that happening? Heck the Brewers might be more popular in Chicago than the Sox.

 

Also they didn’t piss on their fan base in the previous down times like they do today.

[JoshPR]

12 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Rock bottom is probably eliminated all but mathematically by June. So something like 15-30 record. At this rate, we'll hit that. We'll be one of the worst teams in MLB with a top 10 payroll and a bottom 1/3 farm. We'll have several guys that need to be moved before we don't extend them: things will get worse before they get better.

Would that be enough to fire Hahn? Personally I don't think so. I think only after another 100 loss season next year would that happen. Sadly I think Hahn will try and sell JR on one more year and JR will listen. That means we won't blow it up but will continue to limp along pretending we can contend with this roster into 2024.

For Jerry to sell to a team of people who see potential in the franchise and such people pretty much clean the fricken house. Kenny, Hahn, Boyer, getz hostetler gone. Then have an organizational philosophy. What's the game plan. Invest in development and scouting. Get rid of the buddy buddy thing. 

[joejoesox]

52 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

What would need to happen for a shakeup at the top? There's only one answer to this....  And it has to do with someone dying.

Why can't JR just transfer ownership to his son. I know there's a whole board making decisions about this kind of s%*# but doesn't he have a controlling stake? Ive heard repeatedly that JR makes all the decisions.

Does his son not wanna deal with this? I thought people were saying that his son was gonna be controlling the team after JR is gone 

[JoshPR]

1 minute ago, joejoesox said:

Why can't JR just transfer ownership to his son. I know there's a whole board making decisions about this kind of s%*# but doesn't he have a controlling stake? Ive heard repeatedly that JR makes all the decisions.

Does his son not wanna deal with this? I thought people were saying that his son was gonna be controlling the team after JR is gone 

Those board members combined age in years is about the years the dinasours have been extinct. He'll they might think babe Ruth still playing...

[LittleHurtCG]

33 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

Yeah I’m not sure you can say they’ve “survived”.  Yes they still happen to exist as an organization.  But we were told, by regular commenters on here and in the media, that this would be a resurgence and they would rival the Cubs in terms of popularity.  Does anyone seriously see that happening? Heck the Brewers might be more popular in Chicago than the Sox.

 

Also they didn’t piss on their fan base in the previous down times like they do today.

The Cleveland Browns are actually a pretty good comp for the White Sox in terms of how their respective rebuilds turned out. It wasn't that long ago that the Browns were on the cover of Sports Illustrated and considered the next big thing in the NFL. Although I think the Browns may have actually won a playoff game so I guess their rebuild was more successful. 

Need more coffee. Not sure how I saw Browns out of Brewers. Please give me a mulligan for this Caulfieldesque post. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by LittleHurtCG
Pulled a Caulfield

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

Yeah no way Hahn gets fired. He’ll be rewarded this offseason with a bump up to VP with Getz taking over.