How To Survive The New Build

[Texsox]

I believe this is the third or fourth rebuild of the 2005 team. Why rebuild any other version?

It's a fork in the road for many Sox fans. Some left and started down a different path. Some are die hards and will stay through everything no matter what. Some are questioning why?

I want to get back to enjoying baseball. This team sucked so much baseball out of me I didn't go to any games at any level. I've enjoyed watching some really bad teams through the years. Ignorance was bliss. This spring I'm going to be at as many if my high school games as possible. 

We aren't going to fix this. Not fix as in putting a new battery in and the car starts. I'm going to try to be happy with some improvements. Look for the positive while ignoring all the negative I can. 

Meanwhile go Rangers

 

[LittleHurtCG]

Interest in the Sox has absolutely hit rock bottom. It is pretty amazing how these clowns completely and totally tanked and destroyed their company brand. 

[Highland]

The strange thing is that I don't think the FO fully realizes how much credibility they have lost with the fans. I don't know if that's just tone deafness or arrogance. But they staked their reputation on something and that something didn't work. 

[LittleHurtCG]

3 minutes ago, Highland said:

The strange thing is that I don't think the FO fully realizes how much credibility they have lost with the fans. I don't know if that's just tone deafness or arrogance. But they staked their reputation on something and that something didn't work. 

I feel bad for anyone trying to make a living in the White Sox ticket sales office. Things are going to be very ugly at the gates next year. I'm sure advertisers are jumping ship as well. Not sure why any decent and respectable company would want to be associated with the White Sox right now. 

[FloydBannister1983]

5 hours ago, Texsox said:

I believe this is the third or fourth rebuild of the 2005 team. Why rebuild any other version?

It's a fork in the road for many Sox fans. Some left and started down a different path. Some are die hards and will stay through everything no matter what. Some are questioning why?

I want to get back to enjoying baseball. This team sucked so much baseball out of me I didn't go to any games at any level. I've enjoyed watching some really bad teams through the years. Ignorance was bliss. This spring I'm going to be at as many if my high school games as possible. 

We aren't going to fix this. Not fix as in putting a new battery in and the car starts. I'm going to try to be happy with some improvements. Look for the positive while ignoring all the negative I can. 

Meanwhile go Rangers

 

I went to a bunch of Florida Gators games this year and enjoyed their ride.

Wont watch but I’m happy to see in the playoffs Texas, Toronto, Tampa Bay, Florida (they’re Florida, not Miami), and Houston (always liked the Astros since the 70s).

[T R U]

1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Interest in the Sox has absolutely hit rock bottom. It is pretty amazing how these clowns completely and totally tanked and destroyed their company brand. 

Oh man, if you think this is rock bottom wait until next season. They have so many holes to fill and wont be spending the money to do it.

They are not going to be able to improve a 100 loss roster. We haven't seen rock bottom yet.

[Highland]

1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

I feel bad for anyone trying to make a living in the White Sox ticket sales office. Things are going to be very ugly at the gates next year. I'm sure advertisers are jumping ship as well. Not sure why any decent and respectable company would want to be associated with the White Sox right now. 

It would help matters if the Sox had a good offseason.  They have to make significant moves. I just don't know if they have the means or ability to do it.

[Lip Man 1]

You survive the next few years by taking care of yourself and outliving current ownership. Then you see what the next owner does.

[The Mighty Mite]

3 hours ago, Highland said:

It would help matters if the Sox had a good offseason.  They have to make significant moves. I just don't know if they have the means or ability to do it.

Agree but how can this team get better, they only have a couple of players any other team would want, we might have to trade Robert where some team would overpay with good ballplayers to get him. The other solution is the signing of premier free agents but from what I’ve read there are slim pickings in the free agent market this year.

[T R U]

Just for fun, lets take a approximate look at 2024 (less arb estimates)

Current commitments: $120,000,000

Potential commitments with Anderson, Hendriks, and Clevinger options declined: $85,500,000

Starting Players (2023 bWAR)

Catcher: Kory Lee (-0.7) / Carlos Perez (0.0)

First Base: Andrew Vaughn (1.0)

Second Base: Lenyn Sosa (-0.8)

Short Stop: Tim Anderson (-2.0)

Third Base: Yoan Moncada (0.6)

Left Field: Andrew Benintendi (0.2)

Center Field: Luis Robert Jr. (5.1)

Right Field: Gavin Sheets (-1.4)

DH: Eloy Jimenez (0.3)

 

SP1: Dylan Cease (2.4)

SP2: Michael Kopech (0.7)

SP3: Touki Toussaint (1.0)

SP4: Jesse Scholtens (0.3)

SP5: NONE

Bullpen: Gregory Santos (1.3), Tanner Banks (0.8), Garrett Crochet (0.2), Luis Patino (0.2), Sammy Peralta (0.2), Jimmy Lambert (0.1), Lane Ramsey (-0.1), Deivi Garcia (-0.2), Declan Cronin (-0.4), Aaron Bummer (-1.0)

 

Everyone in red should probably or definitely needs to be replaced. Its not realistic for that to happen, but its damn near the entire roster. Assuming options are declined on at least Hendriks and Clevinger, were looking at approx. $100,000,000 in payroll commitments without assuming arbitration so most likely higher. And lets just assume they generously get another $160,000,000 payroll budget.

That's approx. $60 million dollars available to sign at least 3 starting pitchers, a few competent bullpen arms, a starting RFer, a starting 2B, bench players. This is not going to happen. The 2024 White Sox are shaping up to be quite possibly the worst team a lot of you have ever seen in your lifetime. Simply put, were fucked.

Edited October 2, 2023 by T R U
Forgot to make Kopech red

[FloydBannister1983]

3 hours ago, Highland said:

It would help matters if the Sox had a good offseason.  They have to make significant moves. I just don't know if they have the means or ability to do it.

They sealed their fate a while ago when they failed to have good off seasons in 2019 and 2020.

I don’t think they could have a good off season.  Not until Reinsdorf and Getz and the entire front office is gone.  They may be in Nashville by then.

[Highland]

41 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Agree but how can this team get better, they only have a couple of players any other team would want, we might have to trade Robert where some team would overpay with good ballplayers to get him. The other solution is the signing of premier free agents but from what I’ve read there are slim pickings in the free agent market this year.

I don't think the Sox will improve the team through any trade. You're right, most teams do not want any players from this team. Why would they? The Sox lost 101, and with the exception of Robert, nobody had a great year. There may not a lot in the free agent market, but that is where the Sox will need to go, at least for a pitcher. They cannot go into the next season with this rotation. But these are the White Sox.

[The Mighty Mite]

9 minutes ago, Highland said:

I don't think the Sox will improve the team through any trade. You're right, most teams do not want any players from this team. Why would they? The Sox lost 101, and with the exception of Robert, nobody had a great year. There may not a lot in the free agent market, but that is where the Sox will need to go, at least for a pitcher. They cannot go into the next season with this rotation. But these are the White Sox.

One thing is that JR isn’t getting any younger and probably doesn’t want a full rebuild so maybe he will surprise us and sign the best free agents he can except of course for Ohtani, he won’t open up the checkbook that much.

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

One thing is that JR isn’t getting any younger and probably doesn’t want a full rebuild so maybe he will surprise us and sign the best free agents he can except of course for Ohtani, he won’t open up the checkbook that much.

Lets' imagine that he was willing to open up the checkbook - are you confident that, if he signed everyone other than Ohtani, that this is a playoff team?

Bellinger (OF)
Blake Snell (SP)
Josh Hader (Bullpen)
Aaron Nola (SP)
Eduardo Rodriguez (SP)

If I do that, I've probably spent the payroll basically up to the luxury tax, they're starting at about $100 million right now, each of those starters is probably getting over $20 million next year. 

That gives a rotation of Snell, Nola, Cease, Rodriguez, and Kopech. The bullpen adds Hader, but isn't particularly deep - you'd have Hader, Santos (may be out for the season), Bummer, Crochet, and then the mess of guys we saw this year. You'd probably want to sign 1 or 2 more RH setup men, and then maybe hope for luck from someone else in the system stepping up.

The lineup is improved with Bellinger so your RF spot is actually filled, you still have a weak spot at 2b, you have a gaping hole at catcher so there's more money you need to spend (note that I just signed guys, I didn't trade for Perez yet, which is still more money). Aside from Bellinger's help, you still have a terrible problem with OBP, you still have tons of positions that are wimpy and where you're hoping guys stay healthy because there's zero depth.

This might be a competitive team in the AL Central, but does this look like the best team in the AL to you? I've probably spent up to $250 million in payroll just while typing here, I'm well into the luxury tax, and I think this team would be in a fight for the weak Central division again, and if any team put it together they could be out of it again.

[Eminor3rd]

^ and still no depth at all

[pettie4sox]

s%*# is absolutely depressing.  I don't know how you guys do it year after year.

[kitekrazy]

On 10/2/2023 at 9:05 AM, Lip Man 1 said:

You survive the next few years by taking care of yourself and outliving current ownership. Then you see what the next owner does.

JR will probably live to be 103 and still thinks he knows baseball.  He will always seek Tony's advice.

[caulfield12]

They would have to find a cheaper niche like speed/defense and move back the dimensions to that of the old stadium.

Bullpen and utility overspending was a fiasco under Hahn.

Simply no way they will spend bundles in FA across 3-5 guys.

Lucky to get 1-2.

[RibbieRubarb]

On 10/2/2023 at 5:09 AM, Texsox said:

I believe this is the third or fourth rebuild of the 2005 team. Why rebuild any other version?

It's a fork in the road for many Sox fans. Some left and started down a different path. Some are die hards and will stay through everything no matter what. Some are questioning why?

I want to get back to enjoying baseball. This team sucked so much baseball out of me I didn't go to any games at any level. I've enjoyed watching some really bad teams through the years. Ignorance was bliss. This spring I'm going to be at as many if my high school games as possible. 

We aren't going to fix this. Not fix as in putting a new battery in and the car starts. I'm going to try to be happy with some improvements. Look for the positive while ignoring all the negative I can. 

Meanwhile go Rangers

 

Go Rangers!

[South Side Hit Men]

43 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

They would have to find a cheaper niche like speed/defense and move back the dimensions to that of the old stadium.

Bullpen and utility overspending was a fiasco under Hahn.

Simply no way they will spend bundles in FA across 3-5 guys.

Lucky to get 1-2.

Any FA they sign will likely be as worthless as Benintendi (0.2 2023 bWAR).

It’s a shitty FA class, season tickets will take a big hit for the second consecutive year and Jerry will likely be pleased cashing the over $100M he gets each year from MLB for merely existing. 

I expect them to lower payroll in 2024.

2022 Payroll: $193.4M

2023 Payroll: $181.2M

2024 Payroll: TBD

[pcq]

Meet the new build, same as the old build. 

[JoeC]

[bmags]

It's actually astonishing how bad this team is at the major league level.

Definitely the time for a culture reset. Hunting and pecking to test out how scouting can work better with your new coaching staff/pd team. 

If you are going to go all-in on Bannister/Katz, you should spend FA dollars to test them this first year. Younger pitchers - that's a different set of coaches.

Players to test (Flaherty, Giolito, Brad Keller*, Luke Weaver, Joe Ross, maybe Severino, Heaney, Wacha, Odorizzi) and i'm sure there will be a bunch in that range.

Position player wise? I think you are opportunistic, but this is honestly the worst FA crop I've ever seen?

 

 

[Lip Man 1]

13 minutes ago, bmags said:

It's actually astonishing how bad this team is at the major league level.

Definitely the time for a culture reset. Hunting and pecking to test out how scouting can work better with your new coaching staff/pd team. 

If you are going to go all-in on Bannister/Katz, you should spend FA dollars to test them this first year. Younger pitchers - that's a different set of coaches.

Players to test (Flaherty, Giolito, Brad Keller*, Luke Weaver, Joe Ross, maybe Severino, Heaney, Wacha, Odorizzi) and i'm sure there will be a bunch in that range.

Position player wise? I think you are opportunistic, but this is honestly the worst FA crop I've ever seen?

 

 

You can try to trade some of the guys who are at least decent but I don't think the current front office has the expertise of say Roland Hemond.  

[bmags]

8 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

You can try to trade some of the guys who are at least decent but I don't think the current front office has the expertise of say Roland Hemond.  

I don't see a point in that.