JoeC Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 3 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said: Call me crazy, but I really don’t care what positions we get back for Cease. Just want Getz and co to be smart and maximize value. This team is so far away from actually competing (not just for the central) that trying to get prospects for certain positions is a pointless worry. And like it or not, Robert is going to have to be traded before this rebuild of the rebuild is finished so whatever you don’t get for Cease you can address later in a Robert trade if need be. If you’re being realistic, who whinin the entire organization are we confidently penciling into the 2025 lineup/pitching staff? Montgomery and ….? Obviously we have some other prospects to be hopeful of, but the void of talent is so glaring that thinking we need to focus on any certain positions is kinda crazy to me honestly. 2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: There should be a decent amount of talent that is ready by 2025. Offensively, the big ones are Montgomery, Ramos, & Quero. On the pitching side, you have Nastrini, Eder, Mena, Bush, & Cannon. Not all these guys will be good and the ones that ultimately will be will likely have some growing pains, but along with whatever you get in a Cease trade there will be an influx come 2025. We should also have “unprecedented financial flexibility” after this season, but next year’s class doesn’t look overly deep on the positional side and I don’t view us as a threat to sign a true mega star ever. But maybe we can convince Jerry to go out and get Pete Alonso along with a mercenary SP. And maybe with the right development and luck, that’s enough to win a s%*# AL Central. But we need to get the Cease trade right and hit on multiple pieces for any chance of that or more likely a competitive 2026 to happen. Basically agree with both of what you're saying, with one being more optimistic than the other. If you're Getz, you're trying to maximize raw value that you have. The only thing that should give you pause is if you end up with multiple guys slated to be at one position / level, and they have no flexibility in their positions. If you're in a position to compete in 2025 by some grace of God, you have chips to trade. Right now, the Sox have what has to be near the bottom of the barrel in MLB talent (reflected in wins and losses), top-end minor league talent (reflected in prospect rankings), minor league depth, and, as a sum of all of that, trade capital. We have none of that, and Getz's first job is to build up trade capital. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 3 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said: I too am accepting that it will be ATL and that I'll hate the return. It's sad that Getz is putting his pig headed belief in Limp Dick Ball ahead of the good of the team but whatever. IMO, even if BAL gave him the package he wanted he still wouldn't do it, he's just using them to drive up the price for an all pitching deal elsewhere. Even if Elias wasn't prospect hoarding, I'm increasingly of the belief that BAL is out. I'm not going to twist myself into a pretzel to believe it's a good return. I'm not going to call chicken s%*# chicken salad. f*** Atlanta, f*** the Royals and f*** Chris Getz. Not necessarily in that order. Grissom doesn't really fit any of the characteristics Getz has preached. I'd be surprised if he is the primary return. You can probably get that deal (Grissom, AJ S-S/Waldrep, and a lotto) in July. There is no reason to take that now. Just because Getz hasn't accepted an offer as we sit on December 18th, or even 6 weeks from now, doesn't mean all is lost. It probably means he is asking for the moon, as he should. I know we all want something interesting to analyze, but this is probably going to take awhile still. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: Grissom doesn't really fit any of the characteristics Getz has preached. I'd be surprised if he is the primary return. You can probably get that deal (Grissom, AJ S-S/Waldrep, and a lotto) in July. There is no reason to take that now. Just because Getz hasn't accepted an offer as we sit on December 18th, or even 6 weeks from now, doesn't mean all is lost. It probably means he is asking for the moon, as he should. I know we all want something interesting to analyze, but this is probably going to take awhile still. Absolutely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 32 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Grissom doesn't really fit any of the characteristics Getz has preached. He could be the defensive upgrade at 1B we've been waiting for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 Updated off-season plan from this point forward: RHP Cease to BAL for 3B/OF Mayo, IF Ortiz, & OF Beavers RHP Yariel Rodriguez - 5/$40M (one year stop-gap if not him) RHP Brandon Woodruff - 2/$25M ($5M in ‘24 | $20M in ‘25) OF Kyle Lewis - 1/$1.5M (controllable through ‘26) OF Rafael Ortega - 1/$1.0M (or similar cheap placeholder) RHP Codi Heuer - 1/$1.5M (controllable through ‘25) Lineup: 1B: Vaughn 2B: DeJong (Ramos | Sosa | Popeye) SS: Ortiz 3B: Moncada# (Montgomery*) LF: Benintendi* CF: Robert RF: Lewis (Mayo) DH: Jimenez CA: Stassi Bench: IF: Lopez# OF: Ortega* UT: Gonzalez BC: Lee Rotation: Soroka Fedde Kopech Rodriguez Shuster* (Nastrini | Eder* | Mena) Bullpen: CL: Santos SU: Crochet* SU: Heuer MR: Patino MR: Garcia MR: Drohan* MR: Leasure LR: Toussaint 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 51 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Updated off-season plan from this point forward: RHP Cease to BAL for 3B/OF Mayo, IF Ortiz, & OF Beavers RHP Yariel Rodriguez - 5/$40M (one year stop-gap if not him) RHP Brandon Woodruff - 2/$25M ($5M in ‘24 | $20M in ‘25) OF Kyle Lewis - 1/$1.5M (controllable through ‘26) OF Rafael Ortega - 1/$1.0M (or similar cheap placeholder) RHP Codi Heuer - 1/$1.5M (controllable through ‘25) Lineup: 1B: Vaughn 2B: DeJong (Ramos | Sosa | Popeye) SS: Ortiz 3B: Moncada# (Montgomery*) LF: Benintendi* CF: Robert RF: Lewis (Mayo) DH: Jimenez CA: Stassi Bench: IF: Lopez# OF: Ortega* UT: Gonzalez BC: Lee Rotation: Soroka Fedde Kopech Rodriguez Shuster* (Nastrini | Eder* | Mena) Bullpen: CL: Santos SU: Crochet* SU: Heuer MR: Patino MR: Garcia MR: Drohan* MR: Leasure LR: Toussaint This would be great. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Dejong will be your starting SS, guaranteed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 8 minutes ago, fathom said: Dejong will be your starting SS, guaranteed I tend to agree, but a Joey Ortiz acquisition could change that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: Updated off-season plan from this point forward: RHP Cease to BAL for 3B/OF Mayo, IF Ortiz, & OF Beavers RHP Yariel Rodriguez - 5/$40M (one year stop-gap if not him) RHP Brandon Woodruff - 2/$25M ($5M in ‘24 | $20M in ‘25) OF Kyle Lewis - 1/$1.5M (controllable through ‘26) OF Rafael Ortega - 1/$1.0M (or similar cheap placeholder) RHP Codi Heuer - 1/$1.5M (controllable through ‘25) Lineup: 1B: Vaughn 2B: DeJong (Ramos | Sosa | Popeye) SS: Ortiz 3B: Moncada# (Montgomery*) LF: Benintendi* CF: Robert RF: Lewis (Mayo) DH: Jimenez CA: Stassi Bench: IF: Lopez# OF: Ortega* UT: Gonzalez BC: Lee Rotation: Soroka Fedde Kopech Rodriguez Shuster* (Nastrini | Eder* | Mena) Bullpen: CL: Santos SU: Crochet* SU: Heuer MR: Patino MR: Garcia MR: Drohan* MR: Leasure LR: Toussaint I dig it. I'd also be calling the Giants to try to get Joey Bart a change of scenery. They just signed Murphy relegating him likely off the MLB roster. He's been awful in the majors and probably is a bust at this point, but that's the type of guy we should be trying out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Are the White Sox really going to sign a pitcher to a 5 year deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 20 minutes ago, fathom said: Dejong will be your starting SS, guaranteed Even if we get Joey Ortiz in a Cease trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: Even if we get Joey Ortiz in a Cease trade? Sure, they start Ortiz in the minors then. I also have an issue with Mayo as the headliner. Isn’t he similar to Burger? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 On 12/18/2023 at 10:54 AM, fathom said: The thing that drives me insane is that if the Sox are so high on Waldrep, they could have just drafted him a few months ago. Maybe the new regime wanted him but the clown car wanted the unathletic kid with the weird batting stance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 12 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: I dig it. I'd also be calling the Giants to try to get Joey Bart a change of scenery. They just signed Murphy relegating him likely off the MLB roster. He's been awful in the majors and probably is a bust at this point, but that's the type of guy we should be trying out. I’d 100% be for that. And I’d love to find a post hype OF prospect that could be in the RF mix, but honestly ran out of time and couldn’t come up with any obvious names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I’d 100% be for that. And I’d love to find a post hype OF prospect that could be in the RF mix, but honestly ran out of time and couldn’t come up with any obvious names. I’m still annoyed they didn’t try to get Nelson Velasquez last deadline 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, spiderman said: Are the White Sox really going to sign a pitcher to a 5 year deal? No. The injury risk is too high for a team with a strict budget limit. Unless it for an AAV under 12 or so. Edited December 19, 2023 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 20 minutes ago, spiderman said: Are the White Sox really going to sign a pitcher to a 5 year deal? Rodriguez is an international signing with some ceiling. It's something they've shown willingness to do in the past and would be a reasonable use of their available funds - if he flopped, the cost isn't back breaking, and if he has a good couple seasons now you have him under control and can figure out your long term plan with one rotation slot filled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: No. The injury risk is too high for a team with a strict budget limit. Unless it for an AAV under 12 or so. I haven’t even heard them rumored as scouting the kid lately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Just now, fathom said: I haven’t even heard them rumored as scouting the kid lately This was someone's version of an article yesterday: https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-white-sox/white-sox-free-agent-target-yariel-rodriguez/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 1 minute ago, fathom said: Sure, they start Ortiz in the minors then. I also have an issue with Mayo as the headliner. Isn’t he similar to Burger? IMO, Mayo is the centerpiece we should be targeting from the Orioles. I’d love a savage as we definitely need LH bats, but Mayo has legit 70 grade power potential and draws a ton of walks (~15% BB rate as a 22 year in AA & AAA). Offensively his ceiling is much higher than Kjerstad’s and especially Cowser’s. And for a 6’ 5” kid, he’s a much better athlete than you’d expect and is an average runner. The Orioles have mostly used him at 3B in the minors, but I have read many scouting reports that believe he could be a decent RF with an elite arm (70 grade by most sources). Honestly, I don’t think comparing him to Burger is a good comp outside of raw power. Mayo is exciting AF and would be a potential game changer for this offense. As for Ortiz, he’s going to be 26 next year and he needs to be on the Opening Day roster if you get him. And given he’d probably be the best defensive IF on the team, he should probably be at SS over a placeholder like DeJong. But if they believe in Montgomery at SS still (and I think it’s too early to rule it out), then I’d be ok with Ortiz at 2B. But the kid definitely needs bats ASAP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 6 minutes ago, fathom said: I haven’t even heard them rumored as scouting the kid lately James said on our front office is mixed on him and didn’t anticipate us being the one to sign him. That being said, seeing what pitching is going for in this market (both SP & RP), I personally feel like $8M/year is a decent gamble for an arm that hopefully provides a solid reliever floor with setup man and/or starter ceiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Updated off-season plan from this point forward: RHP Cease to BAL for 3B/OF Mayo, IF Ortiz, & OF Beavers RHP Yariel Rodriguez - 5/$40M (one year stop-gap if not him) RHP Brandon Woodruff - 2/$25M ($5M in ‘24 | $20M in ‘25) OF Kyle Lewis - 1/$1.5M (controllable through ‘26) OF Rafael Ortega - 1/$1.0M (or similar cheap placeholder) RHP Codi Heuer - 1/$1.5M (controllable through ‘25) Lineup: 1B: Vaughn 2B: DeJong (Ramos | Sosa | Popeye) SS: Ortiz 3B: Moncada# (Montgomery*) LF: Benintendi* CF: Robert RF: Lewis (Mayo) DH: Jimenez CA: Stassi Bench: IF: Lopez# OF: Ortega* UT: Gonzalez BC: Lee Rotation: Soroka Fedde Kopech Rodriguez Shuster* (Nastrini | Eder* | Mena) Bullpen: CL: Santos SU: Crochet* SU: Heuer MR: Patino MR: Garcia MR: Drohan* MR: Leasure LR: Toussaint If you are going to pay Woodruff for missing maybe the whole season in 2024 do you think he'd want to bet on himself and become a free agent in 2026 or take longer years, like 4 guaranteed years but with an opt out in 26 and 27 ? Looks like you're putting payroll at about $10M more than it's at right now for 2024 (minus Cease salary + the acded salaries for your proposed additions). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 hours ago, fathom said: Dejong will be your starting SS, guaranteed Hopefully not for the whole season. See if Montgomery gets a call up halfway through the season or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: If you are going to pay Woodruff for missing maybe the whole season in 2024 do you think he'd want to bet on himself and become a free agent in 2026 or take longer years, like 4 guaranteed years but with an opt out in 26 and 27 ? Looks like you're putting payroll at about $10M more than it's at right now for 2024 (minus Cease salary + the acded salaries for your proposed additions). Probably closer to $7M increase based on where we are today, which I think is very doable. As for Woodruff, I don’t think anyone is giving him a four year deal coming off shoulder surgery unless the guarantee is minuscule. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Probably closer to $7M increase based on where we are today, which I think is very doable. As for Woodruff, I don’t think anyone is giving him a four year deal coming off shoulder surgery unless the guarantee is minuscule. He had capsule surgery, the same one that killed John Danks and Johan Santana's careers. I'd stay far away from a pitcher coming off that surgery. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.