Is “The 78” Dead? Or even more alive? Fire announce plans for SSS

[77 Hitmen]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I don't know why you keep going to this well, but most of the gigantic buildings of downtown Manhattan, a large portion of downtown San Francisco, as well as most of the buildings past Michigan Avenue in Chicago are built on fill.  There is enough bedrock below which is accessible enough to build foundations for thousand foot tall buildings on, let alone a ballpark.  None of what you posted is a dealbreaker, and is dealt with on sites all over the nation for much more complex buildings.

I just finished watching Ken Burns' American Revolution documentary on PBS....great show by the way!   The map they show of Boston during the colonial period is incredible.  The amount of the current city that is infill is almost hard to believe.  

[WhiteSox2023]

18 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

I just finished watching Ken Burns' American Revolution documentary on PBS....great show by the way!   The map they show of Boston during the colonial period is incredible.  The amount of the current city that is infill is almost hard to believe.  

It was really good.  Vietnam one is still the best IMO.

[HoosierSox]

JR is probably looking all this money and tax breaks Indiana is offering to move the Bears and saying let's move the Sox to the Region.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, 77 Hitmen said:

I just finished watching Ken Burns' American Revolution documentary on PBS....great show by the way!   The map they show of Boston during the colonial period is incredible.  The amount of the current city that is infill is almost hard to believe.  

Good call, I meant to post about it in the TV thread, but just a vintage Burns show.  5 stars.  Highly recommend. 

[tray]

16 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

To be frank, you are taking the financing failure of projects to mean that something can't be built on the site, and that couldn't be more wrong.  Having literally sat on Planning Commissions for about a decade, and being involved in the planning process for major projects, most of them never get built because of being able to raise financing, not because of soil or whatever else you are pushing here.  Pretty sure that is not going to be the problem here with the guy who owns the Fire.  Realistically all of the site remediation stuff is what costs will be pushed off on to the state and city as a redevelopment site to get this property back on the tax rolls at a massive number.  This is what they love to put under the category of "infrastructure" we hear so much about.

And for the record I am pretty sure the freaking One World Trade Center site weighs more per square foot than any other building project that could be put on the 78, and the WTC complex is literally the old Hudson River bank that was filled in over the centuries.  They found a 17th century boat when they put the pilons in for the new WTC.  Pretty sure the engineers can handle this.

It is impossible to hold a sensible conversation with you because it appears that you are too anxious to argue than to discuss. Further, your points are predicated on half-truths which can be a deceptive form of argument. In short, you state facts to support your position (that anything can be built on any soil) but that has NOTHING to do with the  points I made in my post. Anyway, I do not want to argue with you on this and accept your points so let's leave it at that. 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, tray said:

It is impossible to hold a sensible conversation with you because it appears that you are too anxious to argue than to discuss. Further, your points are predicated on half-truths which can be a deceptive form of argument. In short, you state facts to support your position (that anything can be built on any soil) but that has NOTHING to do with the  points I made in my post. Anyway, I do not want to argue with you on this and accept your points so let's leave it at that. 

 

 

You keep bringing up soil.  What exactly are you trying to say then by bringing it up, if you point isn't that it can't be built on?  Obviously I am leaving out the race based stuff you keep throwing out there, and sticking to things that are apt here.

[Lip Man 1]

The politicians respond:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears-stadium/2025/12/18/chicago-bears-indiana-stadium-illinois-legislation

And so do the media:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2025/12/18/bears-stadium-arlington-heights-indiana-kevin-warrens-gambit-wrong-time-packers-real-football-nfl

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/12/18/chicago-bears-stadium-indiana-mccaskeys/

[nitetrain8601]

On 12/17/2025 at 8:41 PM, 77 Hitmen said:

I think landing the Bears would be a major coup for the State of Indiana and Northwest Indiana.  I expect their politicians would move heaven and earth to get a deal done and NO Indiana elected officials are going to lose an election for bringing the Bears to their area.  In fact, I expect the opposite would be true - Indiana politicians from both sides of the aisle will have a field day telling their constituents how they got the iconic Chicago Bears to relocate across state lines.  

IMHO opinion, it would be a gigantic black eye to Chicago and the State of Illinois to lose the Bears.  It would just reaffirm to everyone that people and businesses are fleeing the city and state because it's not friendly to businesses.   Other cities and states get major projects done while Illinois/Cook County is where projects like this go to die so that politicians can say they stuck it to business owners because they're rich.

It would be different if the Bears were asking for public funding for the stadium itself.  But for a state to blunder its way out of an NFL franchise and $2B in private investment for the stadium itself because they won't budge on infrastructure spending and property tax relief sends a bad signal to the business community.    

Oh, and Illinois and Cook County can say goodbye to a lot of Taylor Swift-type mega concerts, NCAA tournaments, etc. if NW Indiana builds a climate-controlled 65k seat fixed-roof stadium.  It won't only be about the 9 or 10 Bears games per season they're losing.

This right here needs to happen to be honest. The state, city and county are all ignorant when it comes to big business and the policies put in place. No one in this state looks at themselves and says "What are we doing here?" In fact, you have many of them telling bold face lies "There are businesses who do support the head tax, so they wouldn't leave" and they can't name one company when pressed. 

It would suck to lose the Bears to NWI, but at the same time, if it gives the state the kick in the butt it needs to reevaluate things, then maybe it's a loss that just has to happen. In addition, I think as long as they are not compromising on quality, a big stadium in the Chicagoland region will definitely attract all different acts. Heck, Indy is closer and more accessible for quite a few people in Illinois and Indy vs Arlington Heights. Different teams have also shown you that this is more than a viable option - so I wouldn't be concerned with a loss of fans. I say this as someone in the West Burbs

On 12/17/2025 at 8:57 PM, mac9001 said:

They didn't spend $200M on the land in Arlington Heights without essentially committing to the development with or without state funding. Everything that's occurred after that was about leverage. They're not moving to NW Indiana even if they were to get billions in funding. It was always going to be AH or if they managed to get enough leverage against Chicago a new lake front stadium. They'll just partner with developers on a piece meal basis and work with AH on a tiff for infrastructure. The state will eventually kick im some money because at the end of the day roads and sewers are going to get built anyway and the unions will make sure the state kicks the money in so they control the contracts. 

That land can be sold if it's as good of an idea that everyone wanted it to be. In addition to this, I think the reason why we are here is because no one is taking this serious. While Illinois is in the catbird's seat, they are blowing it and opening the door for Indiana. And for them to go public about looking at NWI means they have had discussions. And as someone who knows some people in Indy, they are willing to offer a ton of concessions as well as contribute to building the stadium.

[mac9001]

If you've been to Gary or Hammand recently you know there's no credible plan on spending billions, he'll much less millions in an area as economically challenged as those communities. Developing in AH provides a dense concentration of households with incomes exceeded $100,000. The collective wealth of the North West Suburbs is probably 50x of NWI. You can sell developers on hotels, restaurants, retail, smaller event venues, a wide range of entertainment options. There's no economically viable plan to do that in NWI. The Bears know they have a weak hand, they made the opening move and committed $200M because they knew if they didn't they'd have to spend $400M. When they develop the land and start to sell off pieces to private equity they'll sell it for billions. Sorry, but no, NWI is a bluff, a really bad bluff from an organization that doesn't need a single penny from the pubic to still come out billions ahead. But at this point they have nothing to lose, either their bluff works and the state kicks some money in or they're right where they started.

[DFAthewave69420]

11 hours ago, mac9001 said:

If you've been to Gary or Hammand recently you know there's no credible plan on spending billions, he'll much less millions in an area as economically challenged as those communities. Developing in AH provides a dense concentration of households with incomes exceeded $100,000. The collective wealth of the North West Suburbs is probably 50x of NWI. You can sell developers on hotels, restaurants, retail, smaller event venues, a wide range of entertainment options. There's no economically viable plan to do that in NWI. The Bears know they have a weak hand, they made the opening move and committed $200M because they knew if they didn't they'd have to spend $400M. When they develop the land and start to sell off pieces to private equity they'll sell it for billions. Sorry, but no, NWI is a bluff, a really bad bluff from an organization that doesn't need a single penny from the pubic to still come out billions ahead. But at this point they have nothing to lose, either their bluff works and the state kicks some money in or they're right where they started.

As much of a big hat, no cattle guy Kevin Warren is, dumb and dumber — brandon johnson plus jb pritzker — being the reason Gary, Indiana is brought back from the ashes would be something else.

[WhiteSox2023]

7 minutes ago, DFAthewave69420 said:

As much of a big hat, no cattle guy Kevin Warren is, dumb and dumber — brandon johnson plus jb pritzker — being the reason Gary, Indiana is brought back from the ashes would be something else.

Haha, so true.  Jim Carey and Jeff Daniels in that movie look like intellectuals compared to those two clowns.

[Kyyle23]

35 minutes ago, DFAthewave69420 said:

As much of a big hat, no cattle guy Kevin Warren is, dumb and dumber — brandon johnson plus jb pritzker — being the reason Gary, Indiana is brought back from the ashes would be something else.

It’s not because of them.  It’s because federal funds intended for infrastructure are being withheld from the state and Illinois doesn’t know when they are gonna get them.  They can’t prioritize anything right now and the Bears want to skip that line and get the infrastructure moving on 53/euclid, Nw Highway and the train station.  

[Kyyle23]

11 hours ago, mac9001 said:

If you've been to Gary or Hammand recently you know there's no credible plan on spending billions, he'll much less millions in an area as economically challenged as those communities. Developing in AH provides a dense concentration of households with incomes exceeded $100,000. The collective wealth of the North West Suburbs is probably 50x of NWI. You can sell developers on hotels, restaurants, retail, smaller event venues, a wide range of entertainment options. There's no economically viable plan to do that in NWI. The Bears know they have a weak hand, they made the opening move and committed $200M because they knew if they didn't they'd have to spend $400M. When they develop the land and start to sell off pieces to private equity they'll sell it for billions. Sorry, but no, NWI is a bluff, a really bad bluff from an organization that doesn't need a single penny from the pubic to still come out billions ahead. But at this point they have nothing to lose, either their bluff works and the state kicks some money in or they're right where they started.

The McCaskeys are gonna have a hard time getting back the money they spent on that lot so far, I also don’t see them running around to Indiana and just eating that investment 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Haha, so true.  Jim Carey and Jeff Daniels in that movie look like intellectuals compared to those two clowns.

Why is Pritzker a clown?

[WhiteSox2023]

53 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why is Pritzker a clown?

No political talk.  I’ll pass.

[Chicago White Sox]

13 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

No political talk.  I’ll pass.

You called him a clown…that’s political brother.  I was just curious what makes him a clown related to this matter.  Seems like not wanting to subside a multi billion stadium project for rich NFL owners would make him the opposite of a clown.

[77 Hitmen]

45 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You called him a clown…that’s political brother.  I was just curious what makes him a clown related to this matter.  Seems like not wanting to subside a multi billion stadium project for rich NFL owners would make him the opposite of a clown.

I'll also note, without commenting on whether I approve of the Governor or not, that he's up for reelection in 2026. 

As much as I'd like to see a Bears deal in AH done, him not wanting to be seen as giving the McCaskeys a huge tax relief isn't being stupid.  As far as I can tell, public reaction (on both end of the political spectrum) has been unfavorable towards a Bears stadium deal.  Maybe that'll change if an Indiana stadium deal seems imminent, and it might get to that point, but not right now.  

At the end of the day, if I had to choose between only 1 team (Sox or Bears) getting a deal done for a new stadium, I'll gladly take the Sox resolving their stadium situation over the Bears any day.  

Edited Saturday at 05:05 PM by 77 Hitmen

[WestEddy]

4 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

I'll also note, without commenting on whether I approve of the Governor or not, that he's up for reelection in 2026. 

As much as I'd like to see a Bears deal in AH done, him not wanting to be seen as giving the McCaskeys a huge tax relief isn't being stupid.  As far as I can tell, public reaction (on both end of the political spectrum) has been unfavorable towards a Bears stadium deal.  Maybe that'll change if an Indiana stadium deal seems imminent, and it might get to that point, but not right now.  

At the end of the day, if I had to choose between only 1 team (Sox or Bears) getting a deal done for a new stadium, I'll gladly take the Sox resolving their stadium situation.  

I agree about the upcoming election season, and 2028 looms, also. Newsom let the A's and Raiders leave. 

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

I'll also note, without commenting on whether I approve of the Governor or not, that he's up for reelection in 2026. 

As much as I'd like to see a Bears deal in AH done, him not wanting to be seen as giving the McCaskeys a huge tax relief isn't being stupid.  As far as I can tell, public reaction (on both end of the political spectrum) has been unfavorable towards a Bears stadium deal.  Maybe that'll change if an Indiana stadium deal seems imminent, and it might get to that point, but not right now.  

At the end of the day, if I had to choose between only 1 team (Sox or Bears) getting a deal done for a new stadium, I'll gladly take the Sox resolving their stadium situation.  

IMO, this NW Indiana play is nothing but an obvious bluff.  The Bears can make all the threats they want, but they want to be in AH first and downtown second.  Their vision of what a new domed stadium can bring to the table is all but wiped out in NW Indiana.  Pritzker has all the leverage with them and people should be glad he is not caving.

[WhiteSox2023]

38 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You called him a clown…that’s political brother.  I was just curious what makes him a clown related to this matter.  Seems like not wanting to subside a multi billion stadium project for rich NFL owners would make him the opposite of a clown.

It wasn’t pertaining to this matter, but whatever.

[WBWSF]

5 hours ago, DFAthewave69420 said:

As much of a big hat, no cattle guy Kevin Warren is, dumb and dumber — brandon johnson plus jb pritzker — being the reason Gary, Indiana is brought back from the ashes would be something else.

If Indiana offers the Bears a better deal (Lower taxes and infrastructure) and Illinois doesn't the Bears will move to Indiana. The KC Chiefs are on the verge of moving to the State of Kansas. The annoucement is expected next week. Better deals   usually  have the teams moving.

[Quin]

6 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

I'll also note, without commenting on whether I approve of the Governor or not, that he's up for reelection in 2026. 

As much as I'd like to see a Bears deal in AH done, him not wanting to be seen as giving the McCaskeys a huge tax relief isn't being stupid.  As far as I can tell, public reaction (on both end of the political spectrum) has been unfavorable towards a Bears stadium deal.  Maybe that'll change if an Indiana stadium deal seems imminent, and it might get to that point, but not right now.  

At the end of the day, if I had to choose between only 1 team (Sox or Bes rs) getting a deal done for a new stadium, I'll gladlyr take the Sox resolving their stadium situation over the Bears any day.  

Reinsdorf realized he can't get his money and straight up (partially) sold the team to a guy who could hypothetically build it solo (not saying the Ishbias will, but they have the capital).

If JR knows when to throw in the towel on the political bluff, the McCaskeys and Warren should realize Indiana won't work as leverage.

[WestEddy]

12 minutes ago, Quin said:

Reinsdorf realized he can't get his money and straight up (partially) sold the team to a guy who could hypothetically build it solo (not saying the Ishbias will, but they have the capital).

If JR knows when to throw in the towel on the political bluff, the McCaskeys and Warren should realize Indiana won't work as leverage.

Also, I would imagine that the Bears would do as poorly (politically) in Indianapolis as they do in Springfield. Most of Illinois hates Chicago, and I can't imagine Indiana is any different. Besides, they already have a football team. 

Edited Saturday at 11:54 PM by WestEddy

[southsider2k5]

16 minutes ago, Quin said:

Reinsdorf realized he can't get his money and straight up (partially) sold the team to a guy who could hypothetically build it solo (not saying the Ishbias will, but they have the capital).

If JR knows when to throw in the towel on the political bluff, the McCaskeys and Warren should realize Indiana won't work as leverage.

Gainbridge and Lucas Oil were very publicly funded. Indiana throws money at businesses, not public infrastructure. 

[nitetrain8601]

On 12/20/2025 at 8:12 AM, Kyyle23 said:

It’s not because of them.  It’s because federal funds intended for infrastructure are being withheld from the state and Illinois doesn’t know when they are gonna get them.  They can’t prioritize anything right now and the Bears want to skip that line and get the infrastructure moving on 53/euclid, Nw Highway and the train station.  

I disagree with that. The reason why this became news is because IL governement, specifically JB Pritzker, told the Bears they have no intention on discussing this in 2026. They wanted shovels in the ground Spring 2025 at latest. 
 

so the Bears are pissed off. I honestly think it’s more 60-40 the Bears are in AH, but 40 is large and looming