Why can't real fans be negative

[BainesRules]

A lot of fans on here seem to think if you're negative, you're not a real fan. Well guess what, I am a bigger fan than almost any of you, and I am 100% positive this team will finish in 3rd place and out of the playoffs. I will continue to follow and cheer for them, as I have for the last 25 years, but I'm not going to be some blind optimist. This is hands down the most disappointing season in all my years as a Sox fan. I would much rather watch a team of prospects lose 95 games and show improvement and promise each month, than a defending champ with a big payroll and talent "on paper" that will underachieve to 88 wins, well out of the playoffs, and limp towards many more 2nd and 3rd place finishes in the next several years (or worse if Cleveland gets it together and Liriano stays healthy). As great as the WS win was last year, we needed another playoff team this year, and probably the next, to ensure the popularity of the Sox. Why is that important? You so-called diehards may claim that you don't want a bunch of bandwagon Cubs fans going to games and buying hats. But guess what, the next time the Sox draw 15,000 a game and noone cares or knows about them except your fellow posters, don't complain when Jerry and his management group can't afford a decent free agent. Kenny, the formula is simple. Less power hitters, and more complete players. You got it right last year - smart ball. Some power, some speed, players who care and show emotion (Paulie and Jermaine-can you act like Tori Hunter and show that this game means something to you?) and lots of defense and pitching. I think this will be the sixth straight year of 200 plus home runs as a team. And what do most of those teams have in common? They'll be watching the postseason on tv just like the rest of us.

[GoodAsGould]

"real fans" can be negative... but "real fans" arent jumping on the bandwagon one week and jumping off the next. "Real fans" know that there is a lot of games to be played and overreacting now is pointless. Its ok to be upset at this team, especially with the pitching... the starters and Cotts. But "real fans" dont think the world is ending after every loss to a division rival who we are battling with for the playoffs.

[Flash Tizzle]

A lot of fans on here seem to think if you're negative, you're not a real fan. Well guess what, I am a bigger fan than almost any of you, and I am 100% positive this team will finish in 3rd place and out of the playoffs. I will continue to follow and cheer for them, as I have for the last 25 years, but I'm not going to be some blind optimist.

First sentence was good. Second sentence? Not so much.

 

The problem with this particular argument is criticizing "blind optimists" is no different than suggesting, with 100% certaintly, they'll miss the playoffs. I'm not very optimistic of our chances either, but I wouldn't say it's inevitable we'll fall short.

 

This is hands down the most disappointing season in all my years as a Sox fan. I would much rather watch a team of prospects lose 95 games and show improvement and promise each month, than a defending champ with a big payroll and talent "on paper" that will underachieve to 88 wins, well out of the playoffs, and limp towards many more 2nd and 3rd place finishes in the next several years (or worse if Cleveland gets it together and Liriano stays healthy).

 

It's not over yet. I doub they'll finish "well out of the playoffs" short of a monumental collapse the remaining games. However, if our team wins 88, I'll admit it would definitely be the most disappointing Sox team of my life.

 

I'm not very confident of our future either. Whether people want to admit it, Minnesota and Detroit are in FAR better position to compete from 2006 onwards. Young, talented starting rotations comprised of legitimate arms kicks the crap out of our veteran, expensive, soft-tossing lineup. Unless we're having a few Lirianos or Garza emerge, overpaying for pitching on the market, or trading prospects for starters, the next several years aren't going to be pretty IMO.

 

As great as the WS win was last year, we needed another playoff team this year, and probably the next, to ensure the popularity of the Sox. Why is that important? You so-called diehards may claim that you don't want a bunch of bandwagon Cubs fans going to games and buying hats. But guess what, the next time the Sox draw 15,000 a game and noone cares or knows about them except your fellow posters, don't complain when Jerry and his management group can't afford a decent free agent. Kenny, the formula is simple. Less power hitters, and more complete players. You got it right last year - smart ball. Some power, some speed, players who care and show emotion (Paulie and Jermaine-can you act like Tori Hunter and show that this game means something to you?) and lots of defense and pitching. I think this will be the sixth straight year of 200 plus home runs as a team. And what do most of those teams have in common? They'll be watching the postseason on tv just like the rest of us.

 

World Series success may extend another few seasons. I wouldn't worry about such an immediate dropoff in fan appeal.

 

Don't buy into the "smartball" success. It was solely our starting pitching which carried our ballclub through the season/playoffs. Without pitching? We're not last years team, and certaintly not a World Series winner.

Edited August 26, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[Chisoxfn]

Anyone taking there time to post about the Sox on an internet board is a real fan. Case closed, imo. There are rare exceptions that aren't but you lost me when you try to make yourself out to be a bigger/better fan than anyone else.

 

We are all Sox fans here, and saying your better than any of the members at Soxtalk, well its like walking into an AA meeting and saying your a bigger alcoholic than anyone else in the room.

[Jordan4life_2007]

A lot of fans on here seem to think if you're negative, you're not a real fan. Well guess what, I am a bigger fan than almost any of you, and I am 100% positive this team will finish in 3rd place and out of the playoffs.

 

You know what they say about assumption, right? 100% positive they'll finish in 3rd place? Well lucky you. You can stop watching the games now. Since you're a psychic and all.

 

I will continue to follow and cheer for them, as I have for the last 25 years, but I'm not going to be some blind optimist. This is hands down the most disappointing season in all my years as a Sox fan. I would much rather watch a team of prospects lose 95 games and show improvement and promise each month, than a defending champ with a big payroll and talent "on paper" that will underachieve to 88 wins, well out of the playoffs, and limp towards many more 2nd and 3rd place finishes in the next several years (or worse if Cleveland gets it together and Liriano stays healthy).

 

Might want to atleast wait until we're elminated to make such a bold claim. I'll concede that his team has been frustrating beyond comprehension. It would be an epic disaster if a team with this level of talent failed to atleast make the playoffs. 20+ million dollars was added to the payroll with one goal in mind: to win it all again. Again, since you're a psychic, and it's a lock that we're gonna finish 2nd and 3rd for the next few years -- do yourself a favor and find a new team to root for. Why put yourself through the torture?

 

As great as the WS win was last year, we needed another playoff team this year, and probably the next, to ensure the popularity of the Sox. Why is that important? You so-called diehards may claim that you don't want a bunch of bandwagon Cubs fans going to games and buying hats. But guess what, the next time the Sox draw 15,000 a game and noone cares or knows about them except your fellow posters, don't complain when Jerry and his management group can't afford a decent free agent. Kenny, the formula is simple. Less power hitters, and more complete players. You got it right last year - smart ball. Some power, some speed, players who care and show emotion (Paulie and Jermaine-can you act like Tori Hunter and show that this game means something to you?) and lots of defense and pitching. I think this will be the sixth straight year of 200 plus home runs as a team. And what do most of those teams have in common? They'll be watching the postseason on tv just like the rest of us.

 

I agree with most of your points here. I think bandwagoners are the scum of the earth. But they're valuable scum. However, I don't think they're all gonna vanish if we fail this year. The championship is still rather fresh. Will be able to milk it for atleast a few years, IMO. Although we were able to beat teams in a variety of ways last year, we still relied heavily on the HR. The starting pitching and Scott Podsednik are by far and away the two main reasons why this team isn't as good as last year's. Not because we have too many power hitters. I agree that this team has been lackadaisical and flat most of the year. That's unacceptable for a defending champion.

[shawnhillegas]

First sentence was good. Second sentence? Not so much.

 

The problem with this particular argument is criticizing "blind optimists" is no different than suggesting, with 100% certaintly, they'll miss the playoffs. I'm not very optimistic of our chances either, but I wouldn't say it's inevitable we'll fall short.

It's not over yet. I doub they'll finish "well out of the playoffs" short of a monumental collapse the remaining games. However, if our team wins 88, I'll admit it would definitely be the most disappointing Sox team of my life.

 

I'm not very confident of our future either. Whether people want to admit it, Minnesota and Detroit are in FAR better position to compete from 2006 onwards. Young, talented starting rotations comprised of legitimate arms kicks the crap out of our veteran, expensive, soft-tossing lineup. Unless we're having a few Lirianos or Garza emerge, overpaying for pitching on the market, or trading prospects for starters, the next several years aren't going to be pretty IMO.

World Series success may extend another few seasons. I wouldn't worry about such an immediate dropoff in fan appeal.

 

Don't buy into the "smartball" success. It was solely our starting pitching which carried our ballclub through the season/playoffs. Without pitching? We're not last years team, and certaintly not a World Series winner.

 

 

flash, that was a very, very good post.

[mreye]

You know what I love most about fans on this site? Nobody came out and just flamed the OP. They all stated their points with respect and conviction. Very nice job, everyone. Here's to Soxtalk!

[Sgt. Brown]

This really is the pivotal series of the season. We can continue to allow Minnesota to come in our house and violate us, we can continue to concede games that Santana pitches to the Twins, we can continue to allow Torii Hunter galavant over our home plate...or we can show up and perform. A poster above said it right when talking about how good we our on paper, that hasn't translated. And I too think we rely too heavily on the long ball but our pitching has been our downfall. Starters and bullpen alike. It seems that any lead we get is inevitably gonna get chipped away. Last year I felt confident with a 1 run lead, now I'm concerned if the lead is anything less than 5 runs. Step it up tonight Sox. You no longer have the luxury of a long season to figure it out.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I can't wait for this season to be over just because I am SO tired of the phrase "Unlike last year...." At least when this is over win los or draw the 07 team can stand on its own wheras this team is discovering how hard it is to repeat

[shawnhillegas]

I can't wait for this season to be over just because I am SO tired of the phrase "Unlike last year...." At least when this is over win los or draw the 07 team can stand on its own wheras this team is discovering how hard it is to repeat

 

 

unlike last year, this year we have people who are upset that we are using the phrase, "unlike last year."

[DBAHO]

I can't wait for this season to be over just because I am SO tired of the phrase "Unlike last year...." At least when this is over win los or draw the 07 team can stand on its own wheras this team is discovering how hard it is to repeat

Yeah whatever happens this season, if we don't win World Series it's probably going to be seen as a failure from the majority of our fans.

 

And I just find that dissappointing, especially when you have a look at how many good teams there are in the A.L this season.

[TLAK]

As the announcers like to say, if you watch enough baseball you'll see everything. To that I add that if you live long enough, you'll see everything twice. Here is a link to a short write up on the White Sox 1984 season. Some of the parellels are striking. One thing about 84 I'll always remember was a headline in the Sporting News over a picture of Tony Larussa, it just said "The Wheels Came Off".

 

1984

 

So don't be angry or heart broken if the White Sox don't turn it around, 88-90 wins is still a great season. Having lived through some very tough years with this team, I can be positive about a negative situation.

[Sgt. Brown]

Comparisons are the natural by-product of winning it all last year. They were inevitably going to follow a season in which the Sox created the gold standard by which all subsequent Sox teams would be judged by. There's two ways to approach this as a team: you can crumble under the pressure of such lofty expectations or you can step up and try to replicate it. In any case the comparisons will be there as they provide the context for evaluation of a successful season.

[Dick Allen]

Yeah whatever happens this season, if we don't win World Series it's probably going to be seen as a failure from the majority of our fans.

 

And I just find that dissappointing, especially when you have a look at how many good teams there are in the A.L this season.

My dissappointment comes from not being able to play .500 the second half, and the way most of the pitching staff is getting hit hard. If the Sox were just 1 game under .500 since the All Star break, they would be at most 3 1/2 out of the division lead, and 1 1/2 at least over Minnesota Its not fair to compare any season to 2005 whether you're an optimist or pessimist. That was, at least up until now, a once in a lifetime season. If the White Sox finish in 3rd place in the division, I don't think you can think of it as anything but a total failure. If that makes me a bad fan, so be it, because there is a whole bunch of White Sox personnel OG and JR and KW included that would think its a total failure as well. Making the playoffs would be a successful season. DJ had a great point the other day about the theory of the toll the playoffs have on pitchers. He doesn't buy it, and pointed out that most of these guys have played winter ball before and that didn't slow them down. I agree with that. I think the problem may be after you win a WS you get caught up in everything that goes along with it, and you may not be as mentally or physically sharp going into the next season, and sometimes that has a tendancy to snowball, and your season turns into a struggle.

[hammerhead johnson]

First sentence was good. Second sentence? Not so much.

 

 

He played the "I'm a bigger fan than you" card.

[Wealz]

It's fine to be negative, but a little perspective is always welcome.

[kapkomet]

"real fans" can be negative... but "real fans" arent jumping on the bandwagon one week and jumping off the next. "Real fans" know that there is a lot of games to be played and overreacting now is pointless. Its ok to be upset at this team, especially with the pitching... the starters and Cotts. But "real fans" dont think the world is ending after every loss to a division rival who we are battling with for the playoffs.

[Rowand44]

Yeah whatever happens this season, if we don't win World Series it's probably going to be seen as a failure from the majority of our fans.

 

And I just find that dissappointing, especially when you have a look at how many good teams there are in the A.L this season.

Eh, to me if this team doesnt win it all then this year is a big disappointment(so it's going to be). This team was built to win it all and definitely has the talent to do so. Problem is that our starting rotation stinks in comparison to what it was supposed to be and many other teams around the league. I really don't care how good the al is as a whole, anything less than a World Championship is a huge disappointment, at least imo.

[GoRowand33]

what are your credentials for being a better fan than someone else?

 

it's pretty objective to who is a better fan than the next, so its pretty dumb to try and call yourself god on a message board where 99% of the people are diehard sox fans anyways

 

now then, there is plenty of negativity on the board, just go and read Milman and Fathoms posts

 

throughout the year I've gone through some phases where I was really pissed at the time, but for the past month or so I've come to realize that one bad loss doesn't cost us the season and that the best thing to do is to ride out the season then talk about it more in detail afterwards, instead of just criticizing after every loss

[WHarris1]

Well guess what, I am a bigger fan than almost any of you,

[Gene Honda Civic]

 

He played the "I'm a bigger fan than you" card.

This is how you can tell "real" fans from those imitation fake ones.

 

You'd never see a fake fan say I'm a bigger fan than you, and my dad can beat up your dad. (This is where I would put my :rolly smilie. Let's all take a moment and remember our good friend :rolly You'll be missed 'ol boy. You'll be missed.)

[Mplssoxfan]

If Sox fans couldn't be negative, the Sox would have no fans.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Sox fans are glass-half-empty people by nature. We've all had drilled into our heads (unfairly, of course) that our team is inferior, our ballpark is inferior, our fanbase is inferior, blah-blah-blah-bla-die-blah-blah. We have a huge chip on our collective shoulder and the WS title didn't change the size of the chip that much.

 

Can a leopard change its spots? Can Sox fans become sunny and optimistic?

 

Having said all this, if anyone thinks I'm ever going to give up on this club, you're about three deuces short of a full deck. This race is going down to the wire, and it begins with a solid effort against the Venezuelan today.

[stretchstretch]

Comparisons are the natural by-product of winning it all last year. They were inevitably going to follow a season in which the Sox created the gold standard by which all subsequent Sox teams would be judged by. There's two ways to approach this as a team: you can crumble under the pressure of such lofty expectations or you can step up and try to replicate it. In any case the comparisons will be there as they provide the context for evaluation of a successful season.

 

 

When we play MN on the road note the GIANT banner reading "back to back to back division champs"......there's nothing wrong with expecting repeat performances, especially after an unbelievable year culminating in a world championship and the addition of major payroll with the clear stated goal by the GM to repeat. Not making the playoffs is a disaster, no two ways about it. Boston maybe didn't repeat, and got swept in the first round, but at least they made it back.......

 

We don't make the playoffs and this team will become rejoin the list of the media ignored in 2007..............

 

If Sox fans couldn't be negative, the Sox would have no fans.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Sox fans are glass-half-empty people by nature. We've all had drilled into our heads (unfairly, of course) that our team is inferior, our ballpark is inferior, our fanbase is inferior, blah-blah-blah-bla-die-blah-blah. We have a huge chip on our collective shoulder and the WS title didn't change the size of the chip that much.

 

Can a leopard change its spots? Can Sox fans become sunny and optimistic?

 

Having said all this, if anyone thinks I'm ever going to give up on this club, you're about three deuces short of a full deck. This race is going down to the wire, and it begins with a solid effort against the Venezuelan today.

 

 

Great post, it's just the nature of rooting for a team that has been forever portrayed as second class, second rate, both inside and outside the city of Chgo.

[Baines3]

Real fans are the ones who stand by the team through good times and in bad. The fair weathered fans only show up during a winning streak. I have been a Sox fan for 30 years now and stood by them through some pretty bad teams like a lot of people on this board have.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Eh, to me if this team doesnt win it all then this year is a big disappointment(so it's going to be). This team was built to win it all and definitely has the talent to do so. Problem is that our starting rotation stinks in comparison to what it was supposed to be and many other teams around the league. I really don't care how good the al is as a whole, anything less than a World Championship is a huge disappointment, at least imo.

 

 

^^^

 

What's wrong with having high expectations of this team for once? I'm sick of the second place attitude of "Well, it just wasn't meant to be this year. They still had a decent season. Will get 'em next year." f*** that s***! This team was put together to win another title. Not to finish in second or third place and watch considerably lesser talented teams play in October. We went from one of the best farm systems to one of the worst in one year. Why? Because we sacraficed all that to WIN NOW. We added 20+ million dollars to the payroll. Why? To WIN NOW! There will be no sugar-coating if we fail this year. If we fail to make the playoffs, it will go down as one of the biggest, most epic choke jobs in Chicago sports history.