ThunderBolt Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 If Coop can make something of Pena's power sinker we might have a nice pitcher on our hands. Regardless, we'll have a better pitcher then Kimmy Gobble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Related to Kimmy Gibbler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Don't like the trade. Relievers are always overvalued, and Pena has been mediocre the last two years. Too steep of a price to pay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) This move proves Williams' confidence in his scouting department. Â I know Williams and company have done well, as a whole, these last few seasons, but the recent mess of last offseason (Swisher/Vazquez) really doesn't need to be amplified with anything resembling production with Allen. Atleast with Arizona and Quentin they had what they perceived as an excess of outfielders. It's not as if we're overwhelmed with prospects and could stand to lose a few. Edited July 8, 2009 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:11 PM) This move proves Williams' confidence in his scouting department. Not only are they suggesting to Williams to Pena's statistics as of now are an aberration, and he's a capable replacement for Dotel next season, but you're saying that trading for a relief pitcher is better for our future then holding onto Allen. Â I know Williams and company have done well, as a whole, these last few seasons, but the recent mess of last offseason (Swisher/Vazquez) really doesn't need to be amplified with anything resembling production with Allen. Â Not to mention the fact we have seen A LOT of the Diamondbacks over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 A lot people love Allen too much. I like this deal. With Dotel not likely in the team's plans after this year, and a flaky Linebrink, it's a move to bring stability to our pen for here and in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Pretty stupid comment comment by Van Dyke - they don't want to trade their young core.....but were willing to do so 6 weeks ago for Peavy. Has he been in a cave when it comes to Kenny Williams aggressive style? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie Ball Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 01:56 AM) Even I'll grant that Pena has more value than a simple 27 YO RP with a 4.23 ERA just based on stuff. If we want to look into some more advanced statistics (which obviously we do), we see that Pena's tRA and FIP over the past couple of years are very good and both those metrics are far better for predicting future success than ERA. But why hasn't his actual production matched his true ability? Bad luck? Whatever it is I'm sure Coop'll fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:09 PM) Don't like the trade. Relievers are always overvalued, and Pena has been mediocre the last two years. Too steep of a price to pay   If you think relievers are overrated, simply refer back to the 06 and 07 seasons, especially 07.  KW was forced to pay top dollar for Dotel and Linebrink (both coming off injuries or tired/sore arms) because his 12 LH candidates and the likes of Aardsma and Sisco didn't pan out here with the Sox.  Look at it this way...when we let Dotel go at the end of the season, we can use another chunk of money somewhere where we need improvement (CF, 5th starter, 3B, etc.)  You can't catch lightning in a bottle with the likes of Hermanson, Politte and Cotts (05) more than once every five years or so, so you have to spend the money on some solid veterans or underachieving youngsters with top stuff unless you want to undermine the confidence of the entire team by blowing an interminable number of games at the set-up stage.  We have Fields, Viciedo, Phegley and Flowers (not to mention Paul Konerko through next year)...so I hardly think depth is a problem  You don't like giving up his athleticism and LH bat (might we now be more serious about Thome for one more year?), but it's a no-brainer.  C. Carter had a lot more potential than Allen and KW traded him, too.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 06:04 PM) I haven't been opposed to trading Jenks since 2007, but as of now, with Williams obviously intent on competing, it's just out of the question. Unless there's the once in a generation type of package for him that is impossible to reject. Â With Jenks under team control for the next 2 1/2 years, I don't see him being moved until at least next summer. Even if the Sox were having another 2007-like season right now, I think that it would literally have to be a deal that Kenny couldn't refuse. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 07:21 PM) or flowers as a 1b. I've wondered if that is the long term plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:11 PM) This move proves Williams' confidence in his scouting department. I know Williams and company have done well, as a whole, these last few seasons, but the recent mess of last offseason (Swisher/Vazquez) really doesn't need to be amplified with anything resembling production with Allen. Atleast with Arizona and Quentin they had what they perceived as an excess of outfielders. It's not as if we're overwhelmed with prospects and could stand to lose a few.  What are you suggesting there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prochisox Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I love this move actually, I wasnt really high on Brandon Allen at all and bullpen depth is not a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSoxMatt Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I like the deal as well...I also have faith in what KW is doing when he trades...more times than not it works in our favor..remember Matt Thornton when we got him, he couldnt throw a strike...I expect we will work on Pena the same as we did Matty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:20 PM) What are you suggesting there? Wow, Brent Lillibridge seems like a distant memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:23 PM) Wow, Brent Lillibridge seems like a distant memory. Â It's surprising that Lillibridge was actually a 3rd round pick. Â Then again, the Pirates drafted him. What's even more surprising is that he was the main piece in the Adam LaRoche deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (nyck170 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 07:53 PM) Allen had and .825 OPS at Birmingham and was slugging under .500 as a first baseman. He didn't draw a walk in 15 games for Charlotte. He was wildly overrated on this site. It didnt help that Hawk practically named him the next Babe Ruth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 He had some really solid minor league numbers. And if Lillibridge could learn that's he's not a power hitter, he could be a decent bench player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:23 PM) Wow, Brent Lillibridge seems like a distant memory. Â Honestly, I don't get it...We traded for Javy, everyone was upset. The prospect we gave up for him has been underwhelming at best. While Javy was here, hardly anyone wanted him. Kenny traded him away, and now people are complaining about the return. Even though the centerpiece of the deal is playing well in AA at a premium position. Â People just always need to complain about everything. Â Javy Vazquez was not traded for Brent Lillibridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:27 PM) It didnt help that Hawk practically named him the next Babe Ruth. Â I almost wonder if that was why Hawk has hyped some of these guys up so much, is help in the selling of these guys to other teams for Kenny. Teams like the Yankee seem to do this with every prospect they end up dealing, maybe it would work for us too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:18 PM) If you think relievers are overrated, simply refer back to the 06 and 07 seasons, especially 07. KW was forced to pay top dollar for Dotel and Linebrink (both coming off injuries or tired/sore arms) because his 12 LH candidates and the likes of Aardsma and Sisco didn't pan out here with the Sox.  Look at it this way...when we let Dotel go at the end of the season, we can use another chunk of money somewhere where we need improvement (CF, 5th starter, 3B, etc.)  You can't catch lightning in a bottle with the likes of Hermanson, Politte and Cotts (05) more than once every five years or so, so you have to spend the money on some solid veterans or underachieving youngsters with top stuff unless you want to undermine the confidence of the entire team by blowing an interminable number of games at the set-up stage.  We have Fields, Viciedo, Phegley and Flowers (not to mention Paul Konerko through next year)...so I hardly think depth is a problem  You don't like giving up his athleticism and LH bat (might we now be more serious about Thome for one more year?), but it's a no-brainer.  C. Carter had a lot more potential than Allen and KW traded him, too.  I wholeheartedly disagree that this trade is a "no-brainer." A "no-brainer" means getting a guy who is awesome now and under control, not someone who doesn't miss bats in the National League. I have faith in Kenny's judgement so I'll wait and see, but this was definitely not a no-brainer.  Carter and Allen were basically the same player, raw athletic 1B drafted out of high school with lots of power, except one hit lefty and the other righty. I have no idea why Carter would have a ton more potential than Allen. Allen to me looked like the better player. If Carter played in Birmingham and Allen had stayed in Birmingham then their numbers would likely almost mirror each other.  I don't understand how we can just trade Allen and then talk about Fields. Allen is a lot better bet than Fields at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSoxMatt Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Do we still miss Chris Young and his .196 avg?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (WSoxMatt @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:34 PM) Do we still miss Chris Young and his .196 avg?? Phil Rogers does. Â Under Walker, he might be hitting .096. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSoxMatt Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Hates Prospects Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 08:25 PM) It's surprising that Lillibridge was actually a 3rd round pick. Â Then again, the Pirates drafted him. What's even more surprising is that he was the main piece in the Adam LaRoche deal. Mike Gonzalez was the main piece in that deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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