Time For a New Leadoff Hitter

[elrockinMT]

I think KW and Ozzie are too much in love with Juan Pierre to make any trades like that. Plus I don't think lead off is our issue. A lefty reliever of quality and a left handed power bat to maybe fit in at DH makes more sense.

[thxfrthmmrs]

carl crawfrod anyone?

 

he is available as we speak, and a natural LF to replace pierre unlike McCutchen or Bourn.

 

We could send Viceido, Flowers, Pierre and some cash to Tampa for Crawford?

[RockRaines]

carl crawfrod anyone?

 

he is available as we speak, and a natural LF to replace pierre unlike McCutchen or Bourn.

 

We could send Viceido, Flowers, Pierre and some cash to Tampa for Crawford?

That would add an impact bat and improve the lead off spot and defense in one move. Of course he would be a rental.

[Kyyle23]

Fukudome would be a good fit.

 

Fukudome is in the middle of his summer swoon. He hit .344 in april, .253 in may, and he is hitting .205 in June.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=28948

 

No thanks

 

 

 

And I was just reading that Carl Crawford is complaining about a sore shoulder, so thats not a good thing for a rental to have

[witesoxfan]

carl crawfrod anyone?

 

he is available as we speak, and a natural LF to replace pierre unlike McCutchen or Bourn.

 

We could send Viceido, Flowers, Pierre and some cash to Tampa for Crawford?

 

The Rays are 14 games over .500 and Crawford's been a huge part of that. He won't be traded.

[Lillian]

Several of you have echoed my biggest reservation about moving Rios to lead off. Of course, as I stated, you would like to have his production in the heart of the order. However, to reiterate, such a move is predicated on the acquisition of a potent LH bat. Since no one seems to think that Delgado will be a viable possibility, just plug in your own choice for the LH bat, and then consider that you would still have an effective middle of the order with Quentin, the new LH bat, and Konerko.

 

The acquisition of a LH power hitter, with a good OBP, is the most important issue, and the key to my whole suggestion, because that then affords the luxury of moving Rios to lead off.

 

[WCSox]

If the Sox trade for somebody, it'll be a DH-type player with power, not a leadoff hitter.

 

Ozzie mulled the idea of moving Teahen to leadoff right before he got hurt, but who knows if he'll be able to keep his OBP up when he returns. Realistically, Pierre's going to be there for the rest of the season. The best that we can hope for is that he gets his OBP back up to his usual .335.

 

[thxfrthmmrs]

The Rays are 14 games over .500 and Crawford's been a huge part of that. He won't be traded.

 

 

crawford is a free agent at the end of the season, and despite their success the Rays are still a small market team. They would risk losing him for nothing (or a few compensational picks i believe) if he bolts for a bigger contract. The smart move for them is to trade him for major league ready prospects (viceido and flowers) to replace Pena (FA next season) and whoever their catcher is, and to have a short term leadoff hitter or fourth outfielder in Pierre. This is at least help them stay competitive from this season and beyond.

 

oh yea, and with konerko and AJ contract due at the end of the season, we have a really good chance of retaining him, especially if we go on and make the playoffs with Crawford at the helm.

Edited June 25, 2010 by thxfrthmmrs

[witesoxfan]

crawford is a free agent at the end of the season, and despite their success the Rays are still a small market team. They would risk losing him for nothing (or a few compensational picks i believe) if he bolts for a bigger contract. The smart move for them is to trade him for major league ready prospects (viceido and flowers) to replace Pena (FA next season) and whoever their catcher is, and to have a short term leadoff hitter or fourth outfielder in Pierre. This is at least help them stay competitive from this season and beyond.

 

oh yea, and with konerko and AJ contract due at the end of the season, we have a really good chance of retaining, especially if we go on and make the playoffs with Crawford at the helm.

 

The Rays will receive draft pick compensation for Crawford, John Jaso and Kelly Shoppach will serve just fine as a catching duo, first base is a very easy position to fix, especially when Pena, even as powerful as he is, is putting up a .737 OPS, and they have Desmond Jennings waiting in the minor leagues to help attempt to fill the void should Crawford leave for free agency this offseason. The Sox also have like $70 million already committed to next years roster, and that's not including raises through arbitration and any other free agent signings, so the Sox wouldn't have room to lock Crawford up long term if they were to bring him in through this hypothetical scenario, which still won't happen.

 

The Rays won't be trading Carl Crawford.

[thxfrthmmrs]

The Rays will receive draft pick compensation for Crawford, John Jaso and Kelly Shoppach will serve just fine as a catching duo, first base is a very easy position to fix, especially when Pena, even as powerful as he is, is putting up a .737 OPS, and they have Desmond Jennings waiting in the minor leagues to help attempt to fill the void should Crawford leave for free agency this offseason. The Sox also have like $70 million already committed to next years roster, and that's not including raises through arbitration and any other free agent signings, so the Sox wouldn't have room to lock Crawford up long term if they were to bring him in through this hypothetical scenario, which still won't happen.

 

The Rays won't be trading Carl Crawford.

 

 

Mind you that the sox have only $65 millions committed, I believe they will only offer abritration to Danks and CQ, with team option to Thorton and Castro. So the Sox do have some money to spend next season.

Edited June 25, 2010 by thxfrthmmrs

[witesoxfan]

Mind you that the sox have only $65 millions committed, I believe they will only offer abritration to Danks and CQ, with team option to Thorton and Castro. So the Sox do have some money to spend next season.

 

Thornton's option brings it up to $68 mill, and it's probably fairly safe to assume that Danks's and Quentin's raises will equal roughly $10 mill, and Pena will probably be around $2 mill, bringing the total payroll up to about $80 mill. That's only 13 players, and the bullpen needs atleast one more pitcher and another hitter is necessary, and this isn't including the bench. If the Sox are fortunate, the payroll will be around $95 mill, which leaves $15 mill in free money next year to patch up these holes. Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on the entire team rather than throwing the money at Carl Crawford and throwing Jhonny Nunez or whoever into the bullpen and expecting good things?

[WCSox]

Mind you that the sox have only $65 millions committed, I believe they will only offer abritration to Danks and CQ, with team option to Thorton and Castro. So the Sox do have some money to spend next season.

 

They're going to need to fill eight positions, and will likely cut payroll if they fail to make the playoffs. Danks will get a hefty raise and the Sox will need to get an impact bat to replace PK - so you're looking at about $12M minimum for just those two.

 

[caulfield12]

Do all these numbers being bandied about take Jenks into consideration for 2011 or not?

[Kalapse]

Do all these numbers being bandied about take Jenks into consideration for 2011 or not?

No

[thxfrthmmrs]

jenks wont be back next season, too expensive.

 

But guys didn't I just say we will sent some money and Juan Pierre's 8 million contract over in this hypothetical situation? we will be looking at around $60 million committed if thats the case.

 

Historically, the Sox are known to make moves to add on salaries during mid season and push the payroll over 100 million. Also, someone on the forum mentioned that Sox management hinted there are money available to spent. If sox do acquire Crawford, would it surprise you if Reinsdorf is willing to spent a couple million more to retain him?

 

Plus, the sox do have some major league ready prospects to fill the void of the departing role players, Torres, Hudson, Morel, De Aza.

 

If you haven't notice, the Sox have been moving away from the home run hitting type, station to station type of lineup to a speedy, and more athletic, and defense oriented type of lineup. Shredding Konerko's contract and signing Crawford is well within the team's philosophy. Then perhaps target a good defensive first basemen, with some power, and cheap salary player like LaRoche to replace some of the power lost.

 

All these are just hypothetical, but they are well within the team's philosophy.

Edited June 25, 2010 by thxfrthmmrs

[iamshack]

Again, why are the Rays going to trade Crawford when they're trying to win their own division?

 

We've got to look to add players from teams that are nearing the point of no return in terms of being in contention, or players that contending teams have no use for.

 

Otherwise, you're just dreaming.

[Quin]

We've won 9 in a row and 13 of 14. I'll wait til we lose a few to suggest big changes.

 

Agreed.

 

Unless its bringing in a big bat, not thank you.

[Kalapse]

Again, why are the Rays going to trade Crawford when they're trying to win their own division?

 

We've got to look to add players from teams that are nearing the point of no return in terms of being in contention, or players that contending teams have no use for.

 

Otherwise, you're just dreaming.

Even if I buy into this hypothetical situation I can't figure out why they'd take on Pierre (at more than say $1M) when they have Desmond Jennings waiting in Durham ready to take over an outfield spot.

[Quin]

The Crawford ship has sailed, and I remember Kenny trying a Q-Crawford swap this offseason.

[VAfan]

The other lead off options on the Sox are Alexei Ramirez and Gordon Beckham. I wouldn't put either one up there now. But both can be streaky hitters who can get very hot, and when they do, either one could hold down the #1 hole better than Juan Pierre. More likely Ozzie will hit them #2 at some point.

 

I always wonder why managers want a set lineup, when almost no one hits consistently over the course of a year. To my mind, managers should start to see and adjust to the streakiness of their players.

 

Here are some splits on Alexei from this year:

By Day/Month AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

April 77 5 17 4 0 1 8 1 0 13 1 0 .221 .231 .312 .543

May 92 11 26 6 0 3 13 7 0 10 1 3 .283 .333 .446 .779

June 82 13 23 3 1 2 6 5 0 16 0 3 .280 .322 .415 .737

Last 7 Days 20 2 7 1 0 0 1 2 0 4 0 1 .350 .409 .400 .809

Pre All-Star 251 29 66 13 1 6 27 13 0 39 2 6 .263 .299 .394 .693

 

From last year:

April 70 6 15 2 0 1 9 6 0 9 5 1 .214 .273 .286 .559

May 96 10 27 3 0 2 14 6 0 10 4 1 .281 .320 .375 .695

June 113 19 32 2 0 7 15 10 1 16 2 1 .283 .347 .487 .834

July 84 14 25 4 1 1 9 9 0 6 1 0 .298 .354 .405 .759

August 78 9 22 1 0 3 10 7 0 15 1 1 .282 .333 .410 .743

September 92 12 26 2 0 1 10 9 0 8 1 1 .283 .347 .337 .684

October 9 1 3 0 0 0 1 2 0 2 0 0 .333 .417 .333 .750

Last 7 Days 13 1 3 0 0 0 1 2 0 3 0 0 .231 .313 .231 .544

Pre All-Star 313 44 88 9 0 11 42 26 1 38 12 3 .281 .335 .415 .750

Post All-Star 229 27 62 5 1 4 26 23 0 28 2 2 .271 .331 .354 .685

 

From 2008:

April 29 1 4 2 0 0 2 0 0 3 0 1 .138 .138 .207 .345

May 61 10 18 3 0 2 5 1 1 9 2 0 .295 .313 .443 .756

June 93 11 33 7 0 3 17 4 0 9 1 1 .355 .381 .527 .908

July 91 16 31 4 1 4 14 3 0 14 4 3 .341 .354 .538 .892

August 107 13 33 5 1 6 22 1 0 13 3 3 .308 .312 .542 .854

September 95 14 20 1 0 6 17 8 2 10 3 1 .211 .286 .411 .697

Pre All-Star 231 31 72 13 0 7 29 7 1 30 7 4 .312 .332 .459 .791

Post All-Star 249 34 67 9 2 14 48 11 2 31 6 5 .269 .303 .490 .793

 

****************

If you parse this out, in June and July, Alexei Ramirez becomes a very very good hitter. He hasn't done quite as well this June, but he's got a week left to pull his averages up.

 

My point is, looking at this trend line, you should consider moving Ramirez to the #1 or #2 hole during those two months. Or, if someone else is even better those months, move them up.

 

So many times, our analysis stops when looking at seasonal numbers. But if you break it down by player, you ought to shift them around to take advantage of when they do well.

 

(By the same token, the Sox should have considered starting the season with Vizquel at SS, as Alexei is uniformly horrible in April.)

 

Now, here's Gordon Beckham:

2010:

April 81 10 19 4 0 1 4 8 2 14 1 1 .235 .315 .321 .636

May 82 8 13 0 0 0 6 10 1 19 2 1 .159 .258 .159 .417

June 70 8 15 5 0 1 8 1 1 15 1 0 .214 .230 .329 .559

Last 7 Days 17 1 3 0 0 1 2 0 0 4 0 0 .176 .167 .353 .520

Pre All-Star 233 26 47 9 0 2 18 19 4 48 4 2 .202 .270 .266 .536

 

2009:

June 75 11 20 3 0 2 13 9 1 13 1 3 .267 .353 .387 .740

July 97 12 32 10 0 3 18 9 1 14 3 1 .330 .382 .526 .908

August 112 17 25 10 0 3 18 12 3 24 2 0 .223 .313 .393 .706

September 83 16 23 4 1 6 14 10 1 11 1 0 .277 .362 .566 .928

October 11 2 2 1 0 0 0 1 0 3 0 0 .182 .250 .273 .523

 

This year, he's been consistently bad. He also had a terrible start last year, and a weak August. But look at July and September. He was awesome. So, if and when he shows signs of one of those hot streaks, move him up.

 

Of course, there are a lot of splits other than month-to-month splits. There is home and away, night and day, team and pitcher, etc. I'm just using month-to-month for illustration purposes.

 

The point is that the Sox do not have one player who should hit lead off the entire season. They have a few candidates who can fill the role, and should be put in that spot when they are hot.

[Balta1701]

Again, why are the Rays going to trade Crawford when they're trying to win their own division?

 

We've got to look to add players from teams that are nearing the point of no return in terms of being in contention, or players that contending teams have no use for.

 

Otherwise, you're just dreaming.

I'm sure the Rays will be thrilled to trade Crawford when we offer them that Strasburg kid. He looks great.

[Lillian]

There is one other reason that Juan Pierre is not good enough to bat lead off for this team.

In the A. L. the lead off hitter often comes to bat with men on base. Without the automatic outs at the bottom of the order, there are too many RBI opportunities to exploit to settle for a guy who isn't a good clutch hitter.

Pierre doesn't get on base enough, rarely gets an extra base hit, and can't drive in a run. All he can do is steal a base.

He would be fine as a pinch runner, but he is not a good lead off hitter.

 

The Sox should bring up De Aza and let him lead off and play left field. He's not only a decent hitter with a little pop, but he can also steal a base. His defense is good enough to play CF, and in left he would be way above league average.

 

This link provides a little insight on De Aza:

http://soxbronzetitan.wordpress.com/2010/0...ejandro-de-aza/

Edited June 29, 2010 by Lillian

[Dick Allen]

There is one other reason that Juan Pierre is not good enough to bat lead off for this team.

In the A. L. the lead off hitter often comes to bat with men on base. Without the automatic outs at the bottom of the order, there are too many RBI opportunities to exploit to settle for a guy who isn't a good clutch hitter.

Pierre doesn't get on base enough, rarely gets an extra base hit, and can't drive in a run. All he can do is steal a base.

He would be fine as a pinch runner, but he is not a good lead off hitter.

 

The Sox should bring up De Aza and let him lead off and play left field. He's not only a decent hitter with a little pop, but he can also steal a base. His defense is good enough to play CF, and in left he would be way above league average.

 

This link provides a little insight on De Aza:

http://soxbronzetitan.wordpress.com/2010/0...ejandro-de-aza/

While I don't think De Aza is the answer, I think you make a great point about being able to drive in a run with pitchers not hitting. He had a couple of RBI in the 9th against the Cubs, but that is the exception rather than the rule. Pierre should hit 9th. There really is no reason he should lead your team in AB.

[chw42]

I'd like to see De Aza on this roster.

 

Give Pierre something to play for. When he was given a chance last year, he hit real well. It's as if the guy can't hit when there's nothing endangering him.

Edited June 29, 2010 by chw42

[flavum]

Yeah, De Aza would be nice on this roster. Give Pierre a day off once in a while, and not lose much with De Aza. I think he would add more value than Andruw Jones, who could be let go.

 

Whatever the case, it's time for Kenny to tighten the screws on the roster. Add Dunn, send Viciedo down (I guess when Teahen gets back), send Williams down (when Jenks is back), dump Linebrink (call up Torres or Hudson if they survive the Dunn trade).