2nd_city_saint787 Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 18, 2012 -> 08:54 AM) How does it set them up way better in the future? The fallout alone from this trade is going to cost them. Stanton will leave because there is no way he is going to sign with them. If these players pan out and they want to supplement them down the road with a major free agent, good luck with that. It's not like these prospects are can't miss. I think 1 is a top 100. If the goal is medicrity and yearly profits, then yes, it has set them up way better in the future. I just think if you get that much in public funds to enhance your private business, you owe the community a lot more than what Loria is doing. MLB should be horrified by this, and Bud should tell Loria it's time he left. 2 Top 100 guys and Adeiny Hechavarria is a pretty good prospect himself, finishing 2011 in AAA with a .389/.431/.537 in 25 games then following that up .312/.363/.424 all while being rated the best defensive SS in the Eastern League in '11 and PCL '12. Add in those 3 guys with Yunel Escobar who has a very valuable contract and they got a pretty good deal for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 18, 2012 -> 11:43 AM) 2 Top 100 guys and Adeiny Hechavarria is a pretty good prospect himself, finishing 2011 in AAA with a .389/.431/.537 in 25 games then following that up .312/.363/.424 all while being rated the best defensive SS in the Eastern League in '11 and PCL '12. Add in those 3 guys with Yunel Escobar who has a very valuable contract and they got a pretty good deal for the future. I thin it is a safe bet not one of those guys will ever be as good as Jose Reyes. It is a good trade if you are rebuilding and have to free up,some money, but that is not what it was. It was a trade to free up some money for Loria to put in his own bank account. He probably has lost any chance for fans now. I would think with Reyes, Stanton, Bonafacio, maybe Logan Morrision comes back, Johaon, Buehrle, Nolasco, you had a team with a couple of pieces that could easily be considered a playoff contender. Pulling the plug shows they have no commitment. The park is built, lease is signed, Miami got played. I can understand how Selig cannot reject the trade, but for him not to put pressure on Loria to get out would be sad. I hope this is the end of public money going into ballparks. The guy has a $20 million payroll now. BTW, Escobar is a cancer. They couldn't wait to get rid of him in Atlanta, they couldn't wait to get rid of him in Toronto, and it will be the same any other place he goes. Edited November 18, 2012 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 18, 2012 -> 12:17 PM) I thin it is a safe bet not one of those guys will ever be as good as Jose Reyes. It is a good trade if you are rebuilding and have to free up,some money, but that is not what it was. It was a trade to free up some money for Loria to put in his own bank account. He probably has lost any chance for fans now. I would think with Reyes, Stanton, Bonafacio, maybe Logan Morrision comes back, Johaon, Buehrle, Nolasco, you had a team with a couple of pieces that could easily be considered a playoff contender. Pulling the plug shows they have no commitment. The park is built, lease is signed, Miami got played. I can understand how Selig cannot reject the trade, but for him not to put pressure on Loria to get out would be sad. I hope this is the end of public money going into ballparks. The guy has a $20 million payroll now. BTW, Escobar is a cancer. They couldn't wait to get rid of him in Atlanta, they couldn't wait to get rid of him in Toronto, and it will be the same any other place he goes. The guy owns the team and has every right to do what he wants with it. However, he has destroyed any confidence the players, fans or city has in him and I hope the other owners can push him out and let him leave with his profits. The trade may be good from a pure player stand point (with prospects you never know). I like public money being spent as long as the public can benefit such as owning the parking, a portion of the tickets etc. It is usually a good way to make money along with the people it brings to a given area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 18, 2012 -> 07:54 AM) How does it set them up way better in the future? The fallout alone from this trade is going to cost them. Stanton will leave because there is no way he is going to sign with them. If these players pan out and they want to supplement them down the road with a major free agent, good luck with that. It's not like these prospects are can't miss. I think 1 is a top 100. If the goal is medicrity and yearly profits, then yes, it has set them up way better in the future. I just think if you get that much in public funds to enhance your private business, you owe the community a lot more than what Loria is doing. MLB should be horrified by this, and Bud should tell Loria it's time he left. They were not gonna win a WS with the roster they had. Some of those players, especially Buehrle, were signed to awful contracts. They got rid of those big money deals for players with potential and can rebuild for the future. Maybe the players don't pan out, but it's not like they were gonna win now anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Nobody accounted for the Nationals being ready to compete in 2012. That was probably another consideration...but the White Sox would have had even more justification to tear their team apart coming into 2013 (in the face of what looks to be an even better Tigers team). If nothing else, they proved you can't build a team of superstars (Josh Johnson, Reyes, Stanton, Hanley Ramirez) without the complementary pieces around it, like we had in 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 18, 2012 -> 05:32 PM) They were not gonna win a WS with the roster they had. Some of those players, especially Buehrle, were signed to awful contracts. They got rid of those big money deals for players with potential and can rebuild for the future. Maybe the players don't pan out, but it's not like they were gonna win now anyway. It all goes to having respectability with your fans. The Marlins now have none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 18, 2012 -> 06:56 PM) It all goes to having respectability with your fans. The Marlins now have none. I agree that for the moment that is the case. For a young franchise with more WS wins than a lot of franchises who have been around more than 100 years (cough Cubs), it will rebuild quickly as soon as they put a winning product on the field. And based on their history, that could be 2014 or 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 18, 2012 -> 07:09 PM) I agree that for the moment that is the case. For a young franchise with more WS wins than a lot of franchises who have been around more than 100 years (cough Cubs), it will rebuild quickly as soon as they put a winning product on the field. And based on their history, that could be 2014 or 15. No one bought in this year. Fat chance they will buy in again at a later date. It is going to take a playoff trip to change their mind, not just a winning product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 18, 2012 -> 07:14 PM) No one bought in this year. Fat chance they will buy in again at a later date. It is going to take a playoff trip to change their mind, not just a winning product. Not certain when they would have bought in. They had a losing record at the all-star break and Ozzie, well Oz was Oz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 18, 2012 -> 07:14 PM) No one bought in this year. Fat chance they will buy in again at a later date. It is going to take a playoff trip to change their mind, not just a winning product. Not certain when they would have bought in. They had a losing record at the all-star break and Ozzie, well Oz was Oz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 18, 2012 -> 06:56 PM) It all goes to having respectability with your fans. The Marlins now have none. I wasn't talking about their fans or any of that stuff. From a roster standpoint, what they did is like what Boston or the Cubs did and makes sense for the future. That was my answer to the earlier question. Obviously all of the other stuff changes everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal #BlueJays-#Marlins trade still on path to approval. Delay a sign of Selig's anger toward Marlins. MLB worked hard to get new park for club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 go ahead and stomp your feet and act pissy, Bud and then bend over like you always do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Report: The Marlins broke verbal no-trade agreements with Mark Buehrle and Jose Reyes Shortstop Jose Reyes and left-hander Mark Buehrle, two of the five Marlins headed to Toronto in a pending blockbuster, are upset that the team broke verbal promises to them regarding trades, according to major-league sources. The Marlins do not award no-trade clauses, but club officials, while recruiting Reyes and Buerhle as free agents last offseason, assured both players that they would not be moved, sources said. Buehrle knew the Marlins’ history of dumping high-priced players, and it concerned him, according to a friend. Team president David Samson, however, told both Buehrle and his wife, Jamie, that the team was committed to a long-term vision, sources said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Nov 19, 2012 -> 10:40 AM) Report: The Marlins broke verbal no-trade agreements with Mark Buehrle and Jose Reyes Mark & Reyes need to fire their agents for falling for the old "verbal" agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Nov 19, 2012 -> 10:40 AM) Report: The Marlins broke verbal no-trade agreements with Mark Buehrle and Jose Reyes I loved Buehrle when he was here, but it's tough to feel that bad. Go to Canada for a few years and earn your $48 million. Nobody else was giving him that dollar amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Jon Morosi @jonmorosi The 12-player #Marlins - #BlueJays trade is official, with names as has been reported. @MLBONFOX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...26728188974-996 Commissioner's Statement regarding Miami-Toronto Trade Baseball Commissioner Allan H. (Bud) Selig issued the following statement today regarding the trade between the Miami Marlins and the Toronto Blue Jays: "Since Tuesday, I have carefully reviewed the proposed transaction between the Miami Marlins and the Toronto Blue Jays. I asked our Baseball Operations Department and our Labor Relations Department to compare this proposed transaction with similar deals. I also consulted with experienced baseball operations executives to get their input regarding the talent involved in this transaction. "After a thorough examination of this information, it is my conclusion that this transaction, involving established Major Leaguers and highly regarded young players and prospects, represents the exercise of plausible baseball judgment on the part of both Clubs, does not violate any express rule of Major League Baseball and does not otherwise warrant the exercise of any of my powers to prevent its completion. It is, of course, up to the Clubs involved to make the case to their respective fans that this transaction makes sense and enhances the competitive position of each, now or in the future. "I am sensitive to the concerns of the fans of Miami regarding this trade, and I understand the reactions I have heard since Tuesday. Baseball is a social institution with important social responsibilities and I fully understand that the Miami community has done its part to put the Marlins into a position to succeed with beautiful new Marlins Park. Going forward, I will continue to monitor this situation with the expectation that the Marlins will take into account the sentiments of their fans, who deserve the best efforts and considered judgment of their Club. I have received assurances from the ownership of the Marlins that they share these beliefs and are fully committed to build a long-term winning team that their fans can be proud of." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Jerry Crasnick @jcrasnick Bud Selig says he has received assurances from #marlins that they're "fully committed to build a long-term winning team ...'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Adding insult to injury... http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...36056832965-996 Along with finalizing the 12-player trade, the Marlins also announced the signing of free agent outfielder Juan Pierre on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 19, 2012 -> 04:57 PM) I loved Buehrle when he was here, but it's tough to feel that bad. Go to Canada for a few years and earn your $48 million. Nobody else was giving him that dollar amount. It's easy to feel bad for him. He got f***ed by the Marlins. They screwed him over. He's a total class act and he got hosed. If Ozzie had pulled this crap of reneging on a verbal agreement to not trade him he'd be buried on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 19, 2012 -> 02:38 PM) It's easy to feel bad for him. He got f***ed by the Marlins. They screwed him over. He's a total class act and he got hosed. If Ozzie had pulled this crap of reneging on a verbal agreement to not trade him he'd be buried on this site. Uh, Loria has been buried by this site, and pretty much everyone, everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 19, 2012 -> 02:38 PM) It's easy to feel bad for him. He got f***ed by the Marlins. They screwed him over. He's a total class act and he got hosed. If Ozzie had pulled this crap of reneging on a verbal agreement to not trade him he'd be buried on this site. He knew exactly what he was getting himself into though. It's not the first time the Marlins have made a move like this, people on this site predicted it when the signing happened. Buehrle should have done what Pujols did, refuse to sign unless he got a no-trade clause. A "verbal" agreement doesn't cut it. Either way, he is still gonna get his $58 million, so I don't feel bad at all for Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I doubt Buehrle wants anyone to feel sorry for him. JR told him to take the money and he did. Good for the Buehrles IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 19, 2012 -> 02:38 PM) It's easy to feel bad for him. He got f***ed by the Marlins. They screwed him over. He's a total class act and he got hosed. If Ozzie had pulled this crap of reneging on a verbal agreement to not trade him he'd be buried on this site. Ozzie Guillen has absolutely nothing to do with this situation, there was no need to bring him up. As my first order as mod (in the wrong forum!) I ask that we refrain from discussing Ozzie Guillen in this thread. He has been talked about ad nauseum this season and his tenure (both with the White Sox and Marlins) has proven to be a hot button issue. Beyond that, there are several other threads where he can be discussed. This trade and the after effects of it have literally nothing to do with Ozzie Guillen. Keep him out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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