Lemon_44 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I don't see any way Hahn includes Anderson in a deal. He's the heir apparent at SS, he's the Sox top hitting prospect, and he was Hahn's first draft pick so there's some sentiment for Anderson to be successful tied to Hahn. I would deal Semien, Ravelo, and a minor league pitcher right now if that would get the deal done. Dealing Semien is dealing from a position of strength and if Ravelo can't play anywhere but 1B, he really has no place to play for the Sox in the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I wonder how much KW is influencing this deal though. This seems more like Kenny's M.O. not Ricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 My question is: Is Semien really that valuable? Keep seeing he could be the "center piece" to a deal and I'm sitting over here wondering if I missed something or what... Also just to clarify, Montas is the guy the Sox just got for... Dunn? Isn't he projected more as a late inning guy and not a starter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 04:12 PM) My question is: Is Semien really that valuable? Keep seeing he could be the "center piece" to a deal and I'm sitting over here wondering if I missed something or what... Also just to clarify, Montas is the guy the Sox just got for... Dunn? Isn't he projected more as a late inning guy and not a starter? It's just the wrong time to move him. It would be selling him a bit low for no reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 06:12 PM) Also just to clarify, Montas is the guy the Sox just got for... Dunn? Isn't he projected more as a late inning guy and not a starter? Montas was part of the Peavy deal. Has a ridiculous arm and had a real good albeit it short season last year. You're thinking of Nolan Sanburn. Edited November 30, 2014 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 07:12 PM) My question is: Is Semien really that valuable? Keep seeing he could be the "center piece" to a deal and I'm sitting over here wondering if I missed something or what... Also just to clarify, Montas is the guy the Sox just got for... Dunn? Isn't he projected more as a late inning guy and not a starter? Montas was a part of the Peavy trade in 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 06:12 PM) My question is: Is Semien really that valuable? Keep seeing he could be the "center piece" to a deal and I'm sitting over here wondering if I missed something or what... Also just to clarify, Montas is the guy the Sox just got for... Dunn? Isn't he projected more as a late inning guy and not a starter? Montas was part of the peavy trade. Nolan sandburn was the pitcher in return for dunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 06:12 PM) My question is: Is Semien really that valuable? Keep seeing he could be the "center piece" to a deal and I'm sitting over here wondering if I missed something or what... Also just to clarify, Montas is the guy the Sox just got for... Dunn? Isn't he projected more as a late inning guy and not a starter? Montas came from the Red Sox in the Peavy deal. Sox got Sanburn for Dunn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Some of you gentlemen continue to insist that there has to be an "extension on the table," in order for this potential trade to make sense for the Sox. Perhaps, I'm just not articulating the point clearly enough, or I'm simply mistaken, but I don't see such an extension as a benefit to the Sox, because that contract extension would be very expensive. Let me try to state it another way. At approximately $10 million, Samardjiza is a very cost effective #2 starter. At the estimated $20 million per season, with the long term risk, always associated with long term contracts for pitchers, he would not be cost effective, much less a bargain. The fact that he only has one year, fortunately makes it feasible to acquire him, without having to give up the farm. I see all of this as advantageous to the Sox. Take him for one year, let him walk, take the draft pick and the money, and go back to work in the next off season. In other words, I want him for one year, at $10 million. I don't want him for 4 years and $80 million. Doesn't that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 04:15 PM) Montas was part of the Peavy deal. Has a ridiculous arm and had a real good albeit it short season last year. You're thinking of Nolan Sanburn. So Montas was the PTBNL w/ Avi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 07:12 PM) My question is: Is Semien really that valuable? Keep seeing he could be the "center piece" to a deal and I'm sitting over here wondering if I missed something or what... Also just to clarify, Montas is the guy the Sox just got for... Dunn? Isn't he projected more as a late inning guy and not a starter? Semien is the only guy who would make sense as a centerpiece of this deal and that's only because we have so much depth in the middle infield that it could make sense to get him out of the way. but overall, his profile says he could also be the best hitter out of our current middle infield prospects (Other than Anderson who is ~2 years away) which makes me really, really not want to give him up for a 1 year rental or a guy we immediately have to sign to a 5/$90 deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) It's just the wrong time to move him. It would be selling him a bit low for no reason. Question is: Does he really fit into the future plans? 3B seems like Gillespie & (hopefully) eventually Davidson and 2B seems like either Sanchez or Johnson at this point. Semien kinda seems like the odd man out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Assume Samardzija won't sign for a discount. Then it doesn't matter whether he's going to sign an extension before you trade for him. You trade Player X with no extension for him, you sign him for whatever he's worth. or... He signs for whatever he's worth, and you trade Player Y. Why would the player change? The only way you pay more (in talent) for an extension now is if you think his value is likely to increase dramatically between now and the end of next season. I don't see why it would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 07:20 PM) Question is: Does he really fit into the future plans? 3B seems like Gillespie & (hopefully) eventually Davidson and 2B seems like either Sanchez or Johnson at this point. Semien kinda seems like the odd man out. Semien seems like a really good fit for 3b and DH and some time at 2b for the next year since the guys at 3b and DH are lefties with strong platoon splits. He could easily get 400+ above-average at bats in those spots while facing lefty starters and as a pinch hitter if thats the only way he was used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 06:19 PM) So Montas was the PTBNL w/ Avi? He wasn't a ptbnl, he was part of the deal along with Avi, Rondon and Wendelken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 07:22 PM) Assume Samardzija won't sign for a discount. Then it doesn't matter whether he's going to sign an extension before you trade for him. You trade Player X with no extension for him, you sign him for whatever he's worth. or... He signs for whatever he's worth, and you trade Player Y. Why would the player change? The only way you pay more (in talent) for an extension now is if you think his value is likely to increase dramatically between now and the end of next season. I don't see why it would. literally no one has said Samardzija is willing to sign for a discount. That includes even the Chicago Cubs who traded him in part because he wouldn't sign for a discount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 04:12 PM) My question is: Is Semien really that valuable? Keep seeing he could be the "center piece" to a deal and I'm sitting over here wondering if I missed something or what... Also just to clarify, Montas is the guy the Sox just got for... Dunn? Isn't he projected more as a late inning guy and not a starter? Semien was MVP of the Southern League when he was in Birmingham posting a .420 OBP and solid batting average and power numbers. His early season trial with the Sox didn't go well but he had a handful of game winning late inning hits. He got more seasoning in AAA and when called up in September looked much better. Defense is still a question mark in some's eyes since his error total was not optimal at 3rd or 2nd base. He got time in the OF in AAA but not on his recall and I get the general feeling that the OF might be his future but would've liked to have seen him out there in September but he was never put out there. Avi, Montas and Rondon (low minors defensive whiz of a SS ) came in the Peavy deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 06:22 PM) Assume Samardzija won't sign for a discount. Then it doesn't matter whether he's going to sign an extension before you trade for him. You trade Player X with no extension for him, you sign him for whatever he's worth. or... He signs for whatever he's worth, and you trade Player Y. Why would the player change? The only way you pay more (in talent) for an extension now is if you think his value is likely to increase dramatically between now and the end of next season. I don't see why it would. I don't remember if it was Heyman or Rosenthal or both, but it was said Beane wouldn't grant a window to work on an extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 06:18 PM) Some of you gentlemen continue to insist that there has to be an "extension on the table," in order for this potential trade to make sense for the Sox. Perhaps, I'm just not articulating the point clearly enough, or I'm simply mistaken, but I don't see such an extension as a benefit to the Sox, because that contract extension would be very expensive. Let me try to state it another way. At approximately $10 million, Samardjiza is a very cost effective #2 starter. At the estimated $20 million per season, with the long term risk, always associated with long term contracts for pitchers, he would not be cost effective, much less a bargain. The fact that he only has one year, fortunately makes it feasible to acquire him, without having to give up the farm. I see all of this as advantageous to the Sox. Take him for one year, let him walk, take the draft pick and the money, and go back to work in the next off season. In other words, I want him for one year, at $10 million. I don't want him for 4 years and $80 million. Doesn't that make sense? It all depends on what the Sox have to give up. If its a player like Anderson then absolutely not. Anderson is already better than some teams 2016 first round pick. Its possible Anderson is helping the Sox around the time his future trade pick is being drafter. I'll take Anderson over one year of Samardjiza. I see what you're saying Lillian. Its just a matter of who Oakland wants. I would not give up much for a one year rental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I think they share the same MO as they always have: Win, damnit. Fortunately, the RH & KW retooling was the fastest thing this world has ever seen. I don't see any evidence to suggest Hahn operated any differently than KW. If any evidence ever surfaced, I would be the most surprised dude on Soxtalk. But all the evidence shows it's still RH KW & JR...as it's been for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSox Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Thanks for the info guys. Been tough the past few years trying to keep up with the Sox since I wasn't able to catch many games with my work schedule. Should be much easier from now on, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 06:24 PM) Semien was MVP of the Southern League when he was in Birmingham posting a .420 OBP and solid batting average and power numbers. His early season trial with the Sox didn't go well but he had a handful of game winning late inning hits. He got more seasoning in AAA and when called up in September looked much better. Defense is still a question mark in some's eyes since his error total was not optimal at 3rd or 2nd base. He got time in the OF in AAA but not on his recall and I get the general feeling that the OF might be his future but would've liked to have seen him out there in September but he was never put out there. Avi, Montas and Rondon (low minors defensive whiz of a SS ) came in the Peavy deal. Josh Fields, Jery Owens, Brent Morel, thise guys all lit it up in September. As Ozzie said, if you aren't in the race, don't believe what you see in September. The jury is out on Semien. If he is the main piece in a Samardzjia trade, there are going to be a few more pieces. He does seem like the type of guy Oakland would like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 05:45 PM) Via tweet from Bruce Levine: " Billy Beane will wait until Scherzer and Lester are off the market in order too max out on a trade of Samardzija." FWIW If they wait for Scherzer, it will be spring training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Rangel Ravelo, he will be one of the names Beane would look for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 06:18 PM) Some of you gentlemen continue to insist that there has to be an "extension on the table," in order for this potential trade to make sense for the Sox. Perhaps, I'm just not articulating the point clearly enough, or I'm simply mistaken, but I don't see such an extension as a benefit to the Sox, because that contract extension would be very expensive. Let me try to state it another way. At approximately $10 million, Samardjiza is a very cost effective #2 starter. At the estimated $20 million per season, with the long term risk, always associated with long term contracts for pitchers, he would not be cost effective, much less a bargain. The fact that he only has one year, fortunately makes it feasible to acquire him, without having to give up the farm. I see all of this as advantageous to the Sox. Take him for one year, let him walk, take the draft pick and the money, and go back to work in the next off season. In other words, I want him for one year, at $10 million. I don't want him for 4 years and $80 million. Doesn't that make sense? The problem with this is that the sox will have a weak rotation and won't win unless they acquire someone. Any good pitcher will get that deal. So do you get js who is cheaper than scherzer or lester or get the other lesser talented pitchers. The sox need to upgrade the rotation if they hope to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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