Cespedes Re-signs with the Mets

[BlackSox13]

What did we honestly give up in that package? lol.

 

Semein- Can't field to save his life.

 

Bassett- Had Montas, Danish, Johnson, Adams, & now Fullmer all in front of him.

 

Phegley- Nothing more than a questionable backup catcher with 1 impressive minor league stint.

 

Ravelo- Maybe the most promising prospect & not even in their top 10.

 

I see nothing worth b****ing about.

Agree with 3/4. Bassitt was MLB ready with 5 starts under his belt in '14 and if the Sox had not traded for Samardzija, Bassitt would have been in the Sox rotation in '15 ahead of all the players you named. In fact Bassitt had 13 starts for Oakland in '15 with a 3.56 ERA and 3.76 FIP in 86 IP. Going into the '15 season: Montas and Danish were in AA, Johnson at AAA coming off a horrible '14 season, Fulmer wasn't even drafted yet, Adams was in Kanny. Going into 16: Montas will be at AAA, Danish repeating AA, Johnson in the majors for his second cup while we cross our fingers, Fulmer at AA, Adams at high A.

 

Considering we all know the Sox could use some starting pitching depth, I wouldn't mind having a cheap, long term team controlled option such as Bassitt. Would be a better option than Latos, Fister and the post TJ surgery pitchers we see mentioned.

 

I agree that Sox aren't missing out on Phegley, Semien or Ravelo. How many of us would have smashed our TV's last season watching Semien commit 35 errors?

[OmarComing25]

I honestly think Fowler + SS + Starting pitcher is better than just getting Cespedes. It'd be nice to get a big bat, but we have a decent amount of power as is. To get a guy who can hit you 15-20 homers, get on at .350-.375 clip, and play CF somewhat adequately would be huge. Getting a SS and another starter to sure up the rotation also makes your team much more well rounded.

Fowler + SS + SP is going to cost a decent amount more than just Cespedes. If you think we can't afford him then we can't afford that either.

[caulfield12]

Agree with 3/4. Bassitt was MLB ready with 5 starts under his belt in '14 and if the Sox had not traded for Samardzija, Bassitt would have been in the Sox rotation in '15 ahead of all the players you named. In fact Bassitt had 13 starts for Oakland in '15 with a 3.56 ERA and 3.76 FIP in 86 IP. Going into the '15 season: Montas and Danish were in AA, Johnson at AAA coming off a horrible '14 season, Fulmer wasn't even drafted yet, Adams was in Kanny. Going into 16: Montas will be at AAA, Danish repeating AA, Johnson in the majors for his second cup while we cross our fingers, Fulmer at AA, Adams at high A.

 

Considering we all know the Sox could use some starting pitching depth, I wouldn't mind having a cheap, long term team controlled option such as Bassitt. Would be a better option than Latos, Fister and the post TJ surgery pitchers we see mentioned.

 

I agree that Sox aren't missing out on Phegley, Semien or Ravelo. How many of us would have smashed our TV's last season watching Semien commit 35 errors?

 

Yet still the 6th highest WAR (just a point or two off from Tulo and playing at one of the worst stadiums for offense in the AL).

 

What about DRS or UZR?

 

We had this debate about errors seemingly 15 years ago back and forth between Jose Valentin and Royce Clayton when Jose put up a 30+ error season. In the end, Valentin had a huge differential in total chances because of his range advantage, and he also recorded numerous outs with his arm strength that would have gone as "hits" with Clayton competently fielding those balls and not being able to get enough on the throws.

 

We can't argue, for example, that Lawrie or Frazier (especially) are above-average defenders and then completely disregard their error totals, focusing only on their other advanced metrics. The same should apply in reverse to Semien.

 

You also have to look at the error rate by month...did he improve or basically stay the same in terms of defensive performance over six full months? Was there improvement or regression?

 

 

Let's just say if Semien and Bassitt were STILL in our system (and eligible), they'd clearly be some combination of #4-6 or 3-5 (depending on the belief in Adams' potential)....you could take those two, along with Adams, and be able to trade for almost any outfield bat left on the trade market (in the same way we were able to acquire Frazier).

 

Instead, we're forced into a situation where we have to trade Anderson/Fulmer/Adams OR overpay a free agent...unless the contract demands come down to a point where they're no longer overpays. Even with Gordon and Span, nobody's arguing those are huge bargains or that they would be particularly happy if the White Sox had signed those two particular players to either deal.

[Bob Sacamano]

With all the pitching depth Oakland added this off-season, I doubt they look at Bassitt as a major contributor this season.

[OmarComing25]

Have to agree with DA on not understanding why the longer this goes, the lower the chances are of the Sox signing Cespedes/Upton. In the past week we've seen two competitors (Giants and Nats) take themselves out of the running, and what happens if two more go down this week (say Angels and Cardinals)? That would leave essentially three teams bidding for the two of them, and I don't see the price being lowered as a threat to the Sox either. If it means Upton will take a 1-year deal, then yeah that's a problem, but the price being lowered a bit will not cause a whole bunch of other teams to jump in. Who would those teams be? The Indians? The Diamondbacks? The Mets? Doubt it, it's not like the price is going to be lowered down to what Span signed for.

Edited January 12, 2016 by OmarComing25

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Could today be the day? Probably not but would be nice to get this s*** over with

[Jose Abreu]

Mets in on Cespedes per NYDN

[BlackSox13]

Yet still the 6th highest WAR (just a point or two off from Tulo and playing at one of the worst stadiums for offense in the AL).

 

What about DRS or UZR?

 

We had this debate about errors seemingly 15 years ago back and forth between Jose Valentin and Royce Clayton when Jose put up a 30+ error season. In the end, Valentin had a huge differential in total chances because of his range advantage, and he also recorded numerous outs with his arm strength that would have gone as "hits" with Clayton competently fielding those balls and not being able to get enough on the throws.

 

We can't argue, for example, that Lawrie or Frazier (especially) are above-average defenders and then completely disregard their error totals, focusing only on their other advanced metrics. The same should apply in reverse to Semien.

 

You also have to look at the error rate by month...did he improve or basically stay the same in terms of defensive performance over six full months? Was there improvement or regression?

 

 

Let's just say if Semien and Bassitt were STILL in our system (and eligible), they'd clearly be some combination of #4-6 or 3-5 (depending on the belief in Adams' potential)....you could take those two, along with Adams, and be able to trade for almost any outfield bat left on the trade market (in the same way we were able to acquire Frazier).

 

Instead, we're forced into a situation where we have to trade Anderson/Fulmer/Adams OR overpay a free agent...unless the contract demands come down to a point where they're no longer overpays. Even with Gordon and Span, nobody's arguing those are huge bargains or that they would be particularly happy if the White Sox had signed those two particular players to either deal.

Semien is very difficult to read. His dWAR is rated 1.4 according to BR but when looking at Fangraphs his UZR is -10 and his DRS is 4. To me it sounds like his range is good, arm strength a tick below average and his throwing is well below average. I'd say his range range is what saves his defensive stats.

 

You make a good point in that if we had not traded those guys, they could be used now to trade for a solid bat and not have to pay big money on a FA upgrade. At this point I would rather have that depth to use as trade bait but its neither here nor there now I suppose.

 

So anyway, any good gossip on the twitter front on the Sox and FA outfielders?

[Dunt]

Mets in on Cespedes per NYDN

 

That tells you exactly how far his price has fallen FWIW

[rowand's rowdies]

Omar just mentioned the DBacks not being a part of the Upton and Cespedes sweepstakes. That brings up a good point.

 

The DBacks are obviously all in with the Greinke signing and Miller trade.

 

Why aren't they considering bringing back one of the more popular players in team history to help that offense? They have some solid OFs, obviously, but still.

 

I lived in AZ the entire time he played there. They had a spot in the OF seats called "Up Town". He was for a few of those seasons of one the few bright spots on that team.

 

You have to ask yourself, especially with them only having to give up a 2nd or 3rd rd pick and $ they have because of that gigantic TV contract, why don't they bring back Upton?

 

In parts of 6 seasons with the team, he played 731 games and had over 3,000 plate appearances (3,030). He was drafted as a young kid and became a MVP candidate in his prime with that organization. Why haven't we ever heard about them considering him? #RedFlag

 

EDIT - I realize this is a Cespedes thread, but the Upton thread is too far down now, so this is a vote for Cespedes! #CespedesOrNada

Edited January 12, 2016 by rowand's rowdies

[BlackSox13]

Could today be the day? Probably not but would be nice to get this s*** over with

 

Man was I wrong. Right before Gordon signed I was thinking it would take just one of the big three to sign and the rest would sign in rapid succession. Almost a week later and we still see names like Cespedes, Upton, Parra and Fowler still in FA limbo.

 

Weird fricken market this year.

[fathom]

That tells you exactly how far his price has fallen FWIW

 

Or that Cespedes' camp has reached back out to teams to ask for more money on shortened deals

[Dunt]

Or that Cespedes' camp has reached back out to teams to ask for more money on shortened deals

 

I highly doubt the Mets have the resources to sign Cespedes to $20+ MM. Anyways, their outfield is more than set already unless they are looking to move Conforto or Granderson.

[BlackSox13]

Omar just mentioned the DBacks not being a part of the Upton and Cespedes sweepstakes. That brings up a good point.

 

The DBacks are obviously all in with the Greinke signing and Miller trade.

 

Why aren't they considering bringing back one of the more popular players in team history to help that offense? They have some solid OFs, obviously, but still.

 

I lived in AZ the entire time he played there. They had a spot in the OF seats called "Up Town". He was for a few of those seasons of one the few bright spots on that team.

 

You have to ask yourself, especially with them only having to give up a 2nd or 3rd rd pick and $ they have because of that gigantic TV contract, why don't they bring back Upton?

 

In parts of 6 seasons with the team, he played 731 games and had over 3,000 plate appearances (3,030). He was drafted as a young kid and became a MVP candidate in his prime with that organization. Why haven't we ever heard about them considering him? #RedFlag

 

EDIT - I realize this is a Cespedes thread, but the Upton thread is too far down now, so this is a vote for Cespedes! #CespedesOrNada

I think you're right in bringing up the redflag.

 

Looking around the net it seems Upton was called out a few different times by the Braves manager for a lack of hustle in '14. Last season Upton threw his helmet down in the dugout and the helmet hit his teammate Yonder Alonso in the head which really pissed off Alonso.

 

This article here provides a bit of insight on how AZ felt about Upton not long before he was traded.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2...spects/1860397/

 

Redflag's all around Upton. I believe stuff like this is what's hurting his market. Not exactly a good reputation.

[SCCWS]

In parts of 6 seasons with the team, he played 731 games and had over 3,000 plate appearances (3,030). He was drafted as a young kid and became a MVP candidate in his prime with that organization. Why haven't we ever heard about them considering him? #RedFlag

 

EDIT - I realize this is a Cespedes thread, but the Upton thread is too far down now, so this is a vote for Cespedes! #CespedesOrNada

 

Sometimes a player wears out his welcome with an organization. Not saying that is the caee, but I think you are overreacting to their lack of interest.

The same Red flag would appear w Cespedes. Boston quickly moved him and he had some problems w a a coach in his brief stay. Could also be a red flag but just might have been a poor marriage.

 

AJ had history but he certainly was well respected w the White Sox.

 

[southsider2k5]

Agree with 3/4. Bassitt was MLB ready with 5 starts under his belt in '14 and if the Sox had not traded for Samardzija, Bassitt would have been in the Sox rotation in '15 ahead of all the players you named. In fact Bassitt had 13 starts for Oakland in '15 with a 3.56 ERA and 3.76 FIP in 86 IP. Going into the '15 season: Montas and Danish were in AA, Johnson at AAA coming off a horrible '14 season, Fulmer wasn't even drafted yet, Adams was in Kanny. Going into 16: Montas will be at AAA, Danish repeating AA, Johnson in the majors for his second cup while we cross our fingers, Fulmer at AA, Adams at high A.

 

Considering we all know the Sox could use some starting pitching depth, I wouldn't mind having a cheap, long term team controlled option such as Bassitt. Would be a better option than Latos, Fister and the post TJ surgery pitchers we see mentioned.

 

I agree that Sox aren't missing out on Phegley, Semien or Ravelo. How many of us would have smashed our TV's last season watching Semien commit 35 errors?

 

Even if Bassitt makes your rotation, he is a guy you are instantly looking to replace. It is like Conor at 3B. Yeah he was a "starter" but we all know he is a bottom tier guy.

[Bob Sacamano]

Even if Bassitt makes your rotation, he is a guy you are instantly looking to replace. It is like Conor at 3B. Yeah he was a "starter" but we all know he is a bottom tier guy.

 

 

Exactly. And as I mentioned in another thread (maybe this one can't remember) Oakland added enough depth this offseason to the point where he likely isn't starting for them.

[OmarComing25]

Man was I wrong. Right before Gordon signed I was thinking it would take just one of the big three to sign and the rest would sign in rapid succession. Almost a week later and we still see names like Cespedes, Upton, Parra and Fowler still in FA limbo.

 

Weird fricken market this year.

I think it's because Gordon was never really a serious threat to leave KC. He wasn't holding up the market, so him signing didn't necessarily have a big impact.

[SoCalSox]

Like I was saying yesterday, I highly doubt the Sox end up with Cespedes or Upton. I'll predict Fowler to the Sox at this point. Cheaper & a shorter term deal.

[Lillian]

Why haven't the teams, for which Cespedes has played, used him in RF? His arm would be much more valuable there.

If the Sox do acquire him, I certainly hope that is where he plays. He would obviously be the best candidate, on the roster, to fill that hole in right.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Like I was saying yesterday, I highly doubt the Sox end up with Cespedes or Upton. I'll predict Fowler to the Sox at this point. Cheaper & a shorter term deal.

 

 

I'm not willing to go this far, yet. I just don't really believe that there's much interest in meeting Cespedes' demands. I think the White Sox will compete $$ wise with the limited amount of teams interested in him. Davis needs to sign in Baltimore. Once that happens, I think the White Sox are firmly in the Cespedes mix because Baltimore is the only other big spender. I personally wouldn't give up a 1st round draft pick for Fowler. He's just not that good. If he were great defensively, i'd feel better about it. I'd much rather just sign Austin Jackson and maybe trade for Chris Coghlan somehow and call it a day.

[ChiSox59]

Why haven't the teams, for which Cespedes has played, used him in RF? His arm would be much more valuable there.

If the Sox do acquire him, I certainly hope that is where he plays. He would obviously be the best candidate, on the roster, to fill that hole in right.

 

He doesn't like RF.

[SoCalSox]

I'm not willing to go this far, yet. I just don't really believe that there's much interest in meeting Cespedes' demands. I think the White Sox will compete $$ wise with the limited amount of teams interested in him. Davis needs to sign in Baltimore. Once that happens, I think the White Sox are firmly in the Cespedes mix because Baltimore is the only other big spender. I personally wouldn't give up a 1st round draft pick for Fowler. He's just not that good. If he were great defensively, i'd feel better about it. I'd much rather just sign Austin Jackson and maybe trade for Chris Coghlan somehow and call it a day.

 

Biggest issue with this is that Davis may not sign until Feb or March according to reports. I'm not sure the Sox care to wait that long. I really think the longer this drags out, the lower chance the Sox have at landing Cespedes.

[Chisoxfn]

Fowler + SS + SP is going to cost a decent amount more than just Cespedes. If you think we can't afford him then we can't afford that either.

Honestly...I think it is an outfielder and Ramirez at the most this off-season. I don't think they are adding anything else (unless it is some vet that sits out their that they buy really low on...say Gavin Floyd to a minor league deal). I don't see them signing a lesser OF and than using more money on say Desmond or something along those lines. Now if they can't get the outfielder, than I could see them using some of that money elsewhere, but if they did, I think it would be short-term.

 

I expect Fowler will be who the Sox sign.

[Lillian]

He doesn't like RF.

 

Really? For the kind of money he wants, he should be willing to play where it best helps the team. His arm would be much more valuable in RF.

I'm beginning to not like the guy, if that is really what has kept him in LF. I really dislike "prima donnas".

 

Edited January 12, 2016 by Lillian