Cespedes Re-signs with the Mets

[Frank_Thomas]

I am trying to be as optimistic as I can This whole process is not over yet. However, I just get fed up with their whole "Holier than thou" attitude. They act like they are kings of the baseball world with this type of attitude, and that they can get anybody they want on their terms. However, what have we proven? We hardly ever win anything, and the biggest contract we have ever given out was Abreu at $68M. The behavior of the FO is just bizarre.

 

Agreed and to me the most difficult thing to understand is if the FO doesn't get it or they are just cheap. It's pretty clear from an outsider we struggle with developing position players for the past decade or so. And this lack of success has created a problem as far as fling holes in the lineup through FA. It is impossible for them not to see in order to sign an impact type player these days it will cost money (we got lucky with Jose). If they are competing now then they have to break from business as usual and spend some money.

 

We have the luxury of having a young cost controlled pitching staff so we don't have to invest on these SPs the way a lot of teams do. However we have to invest in the lineup and with the recent trades now the time to invest and see what happens the next three years with the core plus Crspedes.

 

One last thing, I believe in the end we sign YO but it will be in large part because of the recruitment of Abreu and the fact they can play together for the next 3-4 years. I guess we'll see. I'd pay some serious money to be a fly on the wall in Hahns office to know exactly what's going on

[Dick Allen]

Of course you have to ask yourself do you really want to commit to a player for 5 years if they themselves seem to be doubting what their performance will be in 3 years,

[ptatc]

Pipped whined but he performed. The thing was, even if they wanted to, at least at that time it was against the rules of the NBA to renegotiate contracts. And they did him a solid with a sign and trade to Houston.

 

It is funny, for all the whining Pippen did, and the demanding to be traded, now he is part of the organization again. And he came back for peanuts at the end of his career to play for a non contender. The Pippen/Bulls relationship is pretty bizarre.

 

I

Yes it is a bizarre one. But the pr nightmare at the time was awful. I think alot of it was due to the championships and the money he earned later from that.

 

A team signing the opt out deals will need to hope for a similar result.

[OmarComing25]

I am trying to be as optimistic as I can This whole process is not over yet. However, I just get fed up with their whole "Holier than thou" attitude. They act like they are kings of the baseball world with this type of attitude, and that they can get anybody they want on their terms. However, what have we proven? We hardly ever win anything, and the biggest contract we have ever given out was Abreu at $68M. The behavior of the FO is just bizarre.

 

 

Agreed and to me the most difficult thing to understand is if the FO doesn't get it or they are just cheap. It's pretty clear from an outsider we struggle with developing position players for the past decade or so. And this lack of success has created a problem as far as fling holes in the lineup through FA. It is impossible for them not to see in order to sign an impact type player these days it will cost money (we got lucky with Jose). If they are competing now then they have to break from business as usual and spend some money.

 

We have the luxury of having a young cost controlled pitching staff so we don't have to invest on these SPs the way a lot of teams do. However we have to invest in the lineup and with the recent trades now the time to invest and see what happens the next three years with the core plus Crspedes.

 

One last thing, I believe in the end we sign YO but it will be in large part because of the recruitment of Abreu and the fact they can play together for the next 3-4 years. I guess we'll see. I'd pay some serious money to be a fly on the wall in Hahns office to know exactly what's going on

I think you guys are reading way too much into things, especially considering there's so much we don't know concerning these negotiations or how the market for the Big 3 has developed and changed. I'm not sure how you get "holier than thou" or "kings of the baseball world" from this.

[Saufley]

I am trying to be as optimistic as I can This whole process is not over yet. However, I just get fed up with their whole "Holier than thou" attitude. They act like they are kings of the baseball world with this type of attitude, and that they can get anybody they want on their terms. However, what have we proven? We hardly ever win anything, and the biggest contract we have ever given out was Abreu at $68M. The behavior of the FO is just bizarre.

 

I'm not arguing or disagreeing with you. I truly hope the Sox step up and get one of these guys. As has been posted on here before, I feel like I have been on a roller coaster ride the last few weeks.

 

[Lillian]

No offense by why would any one of the three sign a deal that pays them $15 and $10 million in the last three years? Especially with the escalating AAVs if anything the back end of the contract would go up.

 

One thing we could see the sox do is get creative by doing deffered payments, like we did with Paulie. And the D backs did with Grienke.

 

They might be willing to accept such contract proposals because they have the opt out. That is the whole point. The player gets more money up front, and then if

he is as good as he expects to be, and stays healthy, he can opt out, and get a new contract. Meanwhile, he has the security. Hey, $10 Million is not "chopped liver,"

if you happened to be hurt, or really stink. It's still decent long term security, even if your plan is to leave the team, after 2 or 3 years.

 

Of course, if a player can just get some team to offer him $20 Million per year, for 6 years guaranteed, then that is preferable. However, apparently no team is offering that kind of a deal. You'd like to think that there is some degree of compromise involved.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Lillian

[BlackSox13]

Good post I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Especially about Gordon, I don't really want him on much more than a three year deal. But one thing I differ on is the fallback OFs available. I want one of the big three or none. No one else really makes me excited. I would like Fowler but he costs a pick. I would be okay with Span but who knows how he bounces back after injury and he's a Boras guy. Finally I really don't want to trade any more prospects to acquire someone from CoL.

 

One player I'd be more than happy to trade for and I have said so for a year is Puig. Look at how the Yankees stole Chapman for basically nada. If we could get him relatively cheap id be happy. But in the end one of the big three is the most logical route to getting better quickly

There's alot of outfielders on the trade market so the trade costs should be reasonable. Doesn't sound like the Dodgers will move Puig with the DV lingering over his head and coming off of a down season, the Dodgers would be selling quite low which doesn't sound like a typical Dodger move.

 

As for the FA outfielders. Outside of Cespedes and Upton, the only one I would be interested in would be Parra and I'm straddling the fence big time with him. I have no interest in the rest of the the free agents.

 

I am trying to be as optimistic as I can This whole process is not over yet. However, I just get fed up with their whole "Holier than thou" attitude. They act like they are kings of the baseball world with this type of attitude, and that they can get anybody they want on their terms. However, what have we proven? We hardly ever win anything, and the biggest contract we have ever given out was Abreu at $68M. The behavior of the FO is just bizarre.

Two things to remember. 1) its all part of negotiations. 2) Nightengale is the only one saying the Sox are not willing to go more than three years.

[ptatc]

There's alot of outfielders on the trade market so the trade costs should be reasonable. Doesn't sound like the Dodgers will move Puig with the DV lingering over his head and coming off of a down season, the Dodgers would be selling quite low which doesn't sound like a typical Dodger move.

 

As for the FA outfielders. Outside of Cespedes and Upton, the only one I would be interested in would be Parra and I'm straddling the fence big time with him. I have no interest in the rest of the the free agents.

 

 

Two things to remember. 1) its all part of negotiations. 2) Nightengale is the only one saying the Sox are not willing to go more than three years.

It's not a bad stance by the sox because no one is offering big money long term deals. If a team did the player would have signed. If the sox offer more aav in a 3 year deal it may make it attractive to the player.

This type of deal is better for the team than the opt out deal as they are not stuck with a poorly performing player.

Edited January 2, 2016 by ptatc

[SoCalSox]

So Nightengale basically said what he's been saying for the past few days?

 

I still don't buy it.

[hi8is]

You are my sunshine, my only sunshine.

You make me happy - in times of grey.

[Bob Sacamano]

Yep. This thread will get 100 pages before someone even signs.

Edited January 2, 2016 by soxfan2014

[Chicago White Sox]

Yep. This thread will get 100 posts before someone even signs.

Bold prediction! 😛

[BlackSox13]

It's not a bad stance by the sox because no one is offering big money long term deals. If a team did the player would have signed. If the sox offer more aav in a 3 year deal it may make it attractive to the player.

This type of deal is better for the team than the opt out deal as they are not stuck with a poorly performing player.

I really do like the stance if what Nightengale says is true which in the case of Gordon I believe it is but not with Cespedes as I think the Sox would be willing to go further with Cespedes, just my humble opinion. If no team has offered more than three years yet then I think it's smart for the Sox to not be the first to do so. I think the Sox are deep enough in negotiations to the point where if a team offered Cespedes an additional year or two, his agent would come back to the Sox for a counter offer before signing.

 

I also like the idea of offering a higher AAV for less years and agree it could help entice the player to take the three year deal. This could be what the Sox are trying to do.

 

For Cespedes, I like the idea of either offering a higher AAV or offering a fourth and possible fifth year mutual options with buy outs.

 

For Upton, given his age the opt-out idea would probably make more sense from his perspective but then again, there is so little info on what Upton is seeking I really have no clue what to think or speculate on. He and his agent have been very tight lipped.

[BlackSox13]

You are my sunshine, my only sunshine.

You make me happy - in times of grey.

 

Dude, you are my inspiration for hero worship!

[Bob Sacamano]

Bold prediction! 😛

 

I meant to say pages..d'oh!

[bmags]

In the players defense, I would be going crazy if I was fighting just to get Ben Zobrists contract which was just paid out.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

We have almost 2500 posts between this and the Gordon thread, and neither of them have even signed a contract yet.

 

Imagine how much action there will be when in these threads when they do finally sign somewhere.

[bmags]

We have almost 2500 posts between this and the Gordon thread, and neither of them have even signed a contract yet.

 

Imagine how much action there will be when in these threads when they do finally sign somewhere.

Probably not as much, enjoy it now. Offseason is really boring in Jan.

[OmarComing25]

Anyone think Davis might be the one holding up the market? If he signs with Baltimore that takes out one of the big players.

 

As for the other teams, it sounds like St. Louis will trade for a Colorado OF, the Tigers would be over the Luxury Tax penalty for the next several seasons if they made a big offer, and I think Ilitch has only gone over once in the past decade (2008). The Angels also seem afraid to go over the tax limit, and the Giants are currently being linked to Desmond, and if they sign him I don't think they'd also commit big money to Cespedes. There really might be a smaller market for Cespedes than we think, which makes the 3-year demands seem not so unreasonable from our side, though I still think it's just posturing. We might be able to sign him for 4 years.

[Bob Sacamano]

Looking at the remaining free agents, you can make a pretty good lineup out of the guys still available minus maybe catcher.

1B: Davis

2B: Kendrick

3B: Freese

SS: Desmond

LF: Gordon

CF: Cespedes

RF: Upton

DH: insert other name here

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Anyone think Davis might be the one holding up the market? If he signs with Baltimore that takes out one of the big players.

 

As for the other teams, it sounds like St. Louis will trade for a Colorado OF, the Tigers would be over the Luxury Tax penalty for the next several seasons if they made a big offer, and I think Ilitch has only gone over once in the past decade (2008). The Angels also seem afraid to go over the tax limit, and the Giants are currently being linked to Desmond, and if they sign him I don't think they'd also commit big money to Cespedes. There really might be a smaller market for Cespedes than we think, which makes the 3-year demands seem not so unreasonable from our side, though I still think it's just posturing. We might be able to sign him for 4 years.

I 100% think Davis is holding up the market. However, I think we're starting to get to the point where both teams and the big free agent OFs can't keep waiting. At some point, teams will go to plan B's (lesser free agents or trades) and guys like Cespedes & Gordon will get stuck with even less attractive offers. These guys simply can't wait forever on a Boras client to come to a decision. I think the Nightengale leak is the Sox's way of telling these free agents to s*** or get off the pot.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Ilitch is old and the Tigers are built to win now. Their farm system is f***ed anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them try to get one of the big 3 even if it put them over the luxury tax.

[OmarComing25]

Ilitch is old and the Tigers are built to win now. Their farm system is f***ed anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them try to get one of the big 3 even if it put them over the luxury tax.

I wouldn't be surprised either, but it's not like he has a history of willing to go over the tax limit.

[Dick Allen]

I wouldn't be surprised either, but it's not like he has a history of willing to go over the tax limit.

The problem with going over is once you go over the penalty gets more severe each year you are over, and as long as he has Cabrera and Verlander on the books, trying to remain competitive and getting under signing another big contract might be tough. Maybe the limits change the next CBA. But there was talk about budget starting to be an issue in Detroit for about a year now. He may not really mind spending , but I don't know if his heirs feel the same.

[Chicago White Sox]

Ilitch is old and the Tigers are built to win now. Their farm system is f***ed anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them try to get one of the big 3 even if it put them over the luxury tax.

They're right at the luxury tax threshold right now, so basically every dollar spent from this point forward will come with a 17.5% tax. And backloading a deal won't help, as luxury tax calculations use the AAV of all contracts. And let's not forgot the luxury tax rates increase each consecutive year you're over, so there are potential repercussions for 2017 by going over now.

 

IMO, I think they avoid any big free agents, but you never know with Ilitch.