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Legitimate chance of Sale trade to #Nationals per Rosenthal

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 08:49 AM)
I'm actually coming around to a pitching based package from Washington. They can always trade the pitching later. According to mlb.com Giolito is the #3 prospect in baseball and Robles is #10. Reynaldo Lopez is #37 and Eric Fedde is #75. Give me all of them at 3B Carter Kieboom and I probably do it. I'm still high on Giolito though. He's the best pitching project in baseball. Legit 80 fastball and 70 Curveball with 55 command. He's an ace. Also have CF Andrew Stevenson and RHP Joe Ross. They can get it done.

 

I think Joe Ross would definitely be on the table. If they were to get Sale they would have a rotation of Sale, Scherzer, Strausburg, Roark, and Gio(not too shabby).

 

AJ Cole is another guy. Probably more of a back of the rotation starter but he's 24 and has had a good bit of success in the minors. Struggled in 8 starts this past year but was still able to K a batter per IP.

 

Wilmer Difo has a ton of speed and is supposed to be a wizard with the glove. If he can hold his own at the plate he could be a starting quality 2B quickly.

 

And then Michael Taylor is still only 25. He could be an interesting change of scenery guy.

 

Obviously Cole, Difo, and Taylor and end of the package type guys, but I think there is definitely a deal to be made with Wash if they are willing to give us both Giolito and Robles. After those 2 it could be 1 of Ross/Lopez as the 3rd piece and the 4th and 5th wouldn't have to be any of their top 5 prospects for me. I think a deal is very possible, just hinges on us getting BOTH Giolito and Robles + Lopez or Ross.

 

 

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QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 08:40 AM)
I think Joe Ross would definitely be on the table. If they were to get Sale they would have a rotation of Sale, Scherzer, Strausburg, Roark, and Gio(not too shabby).

 

AJ Cole is another guy. Probably more of a back of the rotation starter but he's 24 and has had a good bit of success in the minors. Struggled in 8 starts this past year but was still able to K a batter per IP.

 

Wilmer Difo has a ton of speed and is supposed to be a wizard with the glove. If he can hold his own at the plate he could be a starting quality 2B quickly.

 

And then Michael Taylor is still only 25. He could be an interesting change of scenery guy.

 

Obviously Cole, Difo, and Taylor and end of the package type guys, but I think there is definitely a deal to be made with Wash if they are willing to give us both Giolito and Robles. After those 2 it could be 1 of Ross/Lopez as the 3rd piece and the 4th and 5th wouldn't have to be any of their top 5 prospects for me. I think a deal is very possible, just hinges on us getting BOTH Giolito and Robles + Lopez or Ross.

 

I trust the White sox to develop pitching, but much less so to develop a young hitter from the low minors to the major leagues.

 

The price for Sale will not come down, be patient and wait until another organization to cave to the Sox demands. Anything less than a massive package for Sale would be a mistake.

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QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 08:40 AM)
I think Joe Ross would definitely be on the table. If they were to get Sale they would have a rotation of Sale, Scherzer, Strausburg, Roark, and Gio(not too shabby).

 

AJ Cole is another guy. Probably more of a back of the rotation starter but he's 24 and has had a good bit of success in the minors. Struggled in 8 starts this past year but was still able to K a batter per IP.

 

Wilmer Difo has a ton of speed and is supposed to be a wizard with the glove. If he can hold his own at the plate he could be a starting quality 2B quickly.

 

And then Michael Taylor is still only 25. He could be an interesting change of scenery guy.

 

Obviously Cole, Difo, and Taylor and end of the package type guys, but I think there is definitely a deal to be made with Wash if they are willing to give us both Giolito and Robles. After those 2 it could be 1 of Ross/Lopez as the 3rd piece and the 4th and 5th wouldn't have to be any of their top 5 prospects for me. I think a deal is very possible, just hinges on us getting BOTH Giolito and Robles + Lopez or Ross.

 

Taylor would definitely have to be a toss in in my opinion.

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If it is Washington, I hope we clean the f*** out of their cupboard. Haven't been a fan of their organization in quite sometime. Don't eveb wanna see Sale in that jersey, but this is still a business.

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I'm also warming up to a Nationals package. If a Bregman/Benintendi/Swanson type player is off the table they can probably make the best offer. I'd be happy with Giolito/Robles as the headliners, and maybe more importantly it sounds like the Nationals would actually do it.

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QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 08:58 AM)
The posturing, and everyone buying it, is insane lately. Now, all of a sudden, Sale's mechanics will cause a UCL tear in the next year and he'll never pitch again?? Now every top-100 prospect is "untouchable"? That word is becoming so corrupted...

 

I find that funny as well since Giolito has already had TJS. If anyone is a "risk" it's him.

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QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 09:15 AM)

 

Joel Sherman to me has been the most indispensable reporter this offseason (all the time). His analysis is spot on in terms of describing what teams should do, what they are likely to do, and what is happening on the rumor mill.

 

Except you have to read the NY post :(

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QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 10:16 AM)
2 points that have already been made numerous times...

1. If we can't develop a talent like Robles we are doomed anyway.

2. If you wait on premium young talent in the minors they will only gain value and be harder to get.

 

And you can't make moves scared. It's just a ridiculous notion that you wouldn't trade for a great talent because you're scared he won't develop. That's how you build a losing franchise. What are you expecting back anyway? Already proven young all-star talent? Not going to happen, and even if it does trading Sale for 1 premium talent does nothing to help us. I keep seeing "we can't lose the Sale trade"...well of course we are going to lose in the Sale trade right now. It would be nearly impossible to get full value for Sale right away. What we have to hope for is that we win the deal 3-4 years down the line when Sale is getting a mega contract and we have 3 cheap, young starting players in return. There's going to be risk involved, no avoiding it when you're rebuilding. So you can either take chances or you can sit on your players because you're too scared to trade them and continue to lose like this franchise has for a decade +.

 

 

Great post. Hits the nail directly on the head. As a wise weed dealer once told me, "scared money don't make money".

 

My main concern is that this front office is absolutely snake bitten and is indeed scared out of their collective minds at the thought of trading Sale and actually commencing on a rebuild. They are scared at what the local media will write if they don't appear to totally win the Sale trade on paper, they are afraid of the fans reaction and an empty ballpark all summer long, they are afraid of the nearly flawless baseball behemoth on the North Side of town.

 

Scared people and organizations tend to stick to familiar patterns. It has already begun with the tendering of Avi and Lawrie in fact. I'm afraid no major trades will be made this offseason and the Sox will stick with dumpster diving in an attempt to patch holes at C, CF, and the bullpen.

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QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 09:36 AM)
Me too. Although there's a lot of questions in it, you get 2 top 20 guys in Giolito and Robles, 2 guys to plug instantly at the back end in Ross and AJ Cole. Depends what the other remaining piece or 2 would be.

 

 

You'd get 2 top 10 guys in Giolito and Robles. #3 and #10

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QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 10:13 AM)
Can someone tell me why Washington is so appealing if Turner isn't involved?

 

Giolito has already had TJ and didn't do much of anything at the big league level, and Robles is a 19 year old in A ball. The Sox can't develop a player like him.

 

You get two top 10 prospects according to MLB Pipeline - without Turner coming back. If you can't get the Bregmans of the world which is being said, you're starting packages with top 30+ guys from the Dodgers and Astros. The only other team that could match Washington's package would be Boston starting with Devers/Kopech/Groome. This is all assuming no team parts with the elite guy who's made his MLB debut this year. If someone does, go to a different team. I agree with you on the Giolito TJS, it's scary and leaves questions. Washington seems the most desperate, as well.

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A package headlined by Giolito/Ross and Robles has my attention. You fill that out with Lopez, Fedde, Dunning, Kieboom, Severino, etc. and I move Sale. Turner doesn't really need to be included in my opinion. If you could get Ross, Robles, Lopez, Severino, and Kieboom, I think you do it.

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QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 10:13 AM)
Can someone tell me why Washington is so appealing if Turner isn't involved?

 

Giolito has already had TJ and didn't do much of anything at the big league level, and Robles is a 19 year old in A ball. The Sox can't develop a player like him.

 

 

Mike, Giolito is the best pitching prospect in the minor leagues and is close to ML ready. Robles is #10 prospect in baseball according to MLB.com. He's the type guy that you acquire and is the #1 prospect in all of baseball in a year and a half. If the Sox can't develop Victor Robles, then they are screwed as an organization and doomed to fail anyway.

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QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:35 AM)
Mike, Giolito is the best pitching prospect in the minor leagues and is close to ML ready. Robles is #10 prospect in baseball according to MLB.com. He's the type guy that you acquire and is the #1 prospect in all of baseball in a year and a half. If the Sox can't develop Victor Robles, then they are screwed as an organization and doomed to fail anyway.

 

Exactly. Robles was regarded more highly than Gary Sanchez this past year. Gioloto is a potential ace. There's inherently risk to rebuilding, you can't be so risk-averse that you handcuff yourself to proven commodities.

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Nats clearly have the talent. I'm getting interested to see what happens. Things are going to get hot real fast, imo.

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QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 10:54 AM)
I do think people are underestimating what the Nationals have to offer. However, the Nationals are crazy if they think they can get McCuthchen and Sale without trading Turner. Let alone without trading Turner AND Robles.

 

SP Giolito

CF Robles

SP Erick Fedde

C Pedro Severino

+

 

Seems a little light, but Robles and Giolito are a couple of top notch guys even if Giolito was terrible in his first few starts.

 

Giolito, Robles, Fedde, Lopez, Severino and Kieboom for Sale and Robertson work?

 

I mention Robertson because it looks like the Nats are gonna lose Melancon to the Giants and would be in need of a closer.

Edited by SoxPride18

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I've gone from discussing how Giolito was the top prospect who scared me to now thinking people are going way too far on other end on him. We saw with Rodon, these guys take time to develop. MLB hitters are good.

 

 

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QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:05 AM)
Giolito, Robles, Fedde, Lopez, Severino and Kieboom for Sale and Robertson work?

 

I mention Robertson because it looks like the Nats are gonna lose Melancon to the Giants and would be in need of a closer.

 

Not a bad package by any means, and may end up being the best we can get, but just wish it was mainly position players. I have faith in the Sox developing pitching...we need bats!

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QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:08 AM)
I've gone from discussing how Giolito was the top prospect who scared me to now thinking people are going way too far on other end on him. We saw with Rodon, these guys take time to develop. MLB hitters are good.

 

Yep. I know I'm repeating the same rhetoric here, but development isn't a linear path. The rare guys are great instantly in the Majors - most aren't and take time to develop. Besides, Giolito had what, 8 starts in the Majors at age 21?

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I would love Turner to be the headliner, but there is also a dynamic to getting everyone but Turner as well as the Nats have a very attractive bunch. Would love for Coop to work with Giolito. That said, would love to find a way to get a deal build around Turner, Robles, & Giolito. I will caveat it by saying Robles is the guy I would put the highest bust factor on, by far, so if they stayed away from him and went with others, I could live with that too. I think DA has brought up some valid points that would point out flaws in his actual performance. That said, lots of tools too. Seems like the kind of guy that the Sox would stay farther away from though, as they seem more focused on near ready / MLB ready type of talent (including potentially guys already in the majors).

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QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:05 AM)
Giolito, Robles, Fedde, Lopez, Severino and Kieboom for Sale and Robertson work?

 

I mention Robertson because it looks like the Nats are gonna lose Melancon to the Giants and would be in need of a closer.

 

For me, swap in Ross and Cole for Lopez and Fedde. Lopez has a scary delivery and Fedde is already a TJS guy. You can't get back 2 TJS guys in Giolito and Fedde as part of a Sale trade, IMHO.

Edited by Ro Da Don

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QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:10 AM)
Not a bad package by any means, and may end up being the best we can get, but just wish it was mainly position players. I have faith in the Sox developing pitching...we need bats!

 

Yeah, I had questions about the positions we'd be getting back with Dodgers but it was nice knowing we'd be getting quality bats regardless.

 

That said, we can try using our other pieces oustide of sale for bats.

 

For all of our "we develop pitching" talk we are pretty barren in minors for both hitting and pitching.

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QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:13 AM)
For me, swap in Ross and Cole for Lopez and Fedde. Lopez has a scary delivery and Fedde is already a TJS guy. You can't get back 2 TJS guys in Giolito and Fedde as part of a Sale trade, IMHO.

 

Lots of people these days saying that post TJS guys are actually safer, and their elbows stronger. I don't disagree with what you're saying - but its not that cut and dry any more.

 

Cole and Ross and intriguing, for sure, but we'd only have 4 or 5 years of control on Ross.

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