Bob Sacamano Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: You are not correct here. His option is still for $4.65 million. The nerve repositioning surgery that he had does not count as a UCL injury that would turn his option into a minimum salary. This. The injury was TJ specific which he didn't have post-extension. He's NOT at the league minimum everyone here keeps saying he is. Edited October 26, 2018 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 What I got from this thread is plan: sign everyone for less than what they will actually get so it would fit in our payroll, never mind that White Sox isn't a preferred destination for most of these players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 32 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: What I got from this thread is plan: sign everyone for less than what they will actually get so it would fit in our payroll, never mind that White Sox isn't a preferred destination for most of these players. I think most contracts here are off by 10 mill here and there, but last year the estimates that players would get were also way off on the high side, so you never know. Will probably be a mixed bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Sign Nathan Eovaldi- 3/40 Sign Marwin Gonzalez- 2/14 Sign Kelvin Herrera- 1/7 Sign Justin Wilson- 1/5 Trade 2 prospects outside of our top 10 to Philadelphia for Maikel Franco (something like Stephens and Sheets) C- Narvaez 1B- Abreu 2B- Moncada SS- Anderson 3B- Franco LF- Gonzalez CF- Engel (I guess?) RF- Avi DH- Palka Bench- Yolmer, Davidson, Beef Rondon Giolito Eovaldi Lopez ? Jones Fry Herrera Wilson Hamilton Minaya Covey A rough 25 with a few spots open...I don’t see Machado going to the Sox so my goal would be to add pieces to start to bring the team into contention without overpaying on any long term deals. I was/am all for tanking but I also think it’s important to try and build somewhat of a winning culture and put talent around our young guys at this stage. I think this team could jump into 75 win range in 2019 with a lot of help coming full time from Eloy, Madrigal, Cease, Collins, Dunning, and possibly others in 2020 when we would really be in a position to spend $ and go for a WS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 10 hours ago, daggins said: I'd say a pre-arb catcher who might be an above average hitter is more valuable to a team in the Sox position (that is, not competitive) than Jon Gray. While I do see some value in Narvaez, and I disagree with the notion expressed above that a guy who is poor at his framing one year cannot ever learn to become better at that skill, I also see that we have Castillo and Smith under contract this year to give us 2 catchers, and we have Zavala and Collins in the pipeline less than a year away. Those 2 should be the starting catching tandem in 2020. Castillo's contract ends and Smith is replaceable as a backup or tradeable as a backup, but Narvaez should have built some solid trade value. In part time and growing roles he was worth 1.5 fWAR in 2017 and 2.1 fWAR in 2018. He should be able to play more time if a team wanted him to, and a little defensive work could make him a really strong catcher overall. For example, if the Rockies did a trade like that and went out and signed a mid-rotation pitcher, someone like Lynn....they would immediately be better than they were last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 43 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said: What I got from this thread is plan: sign everyone for less than what they will actually get so it would fit in our payroll, never mind that White Sox isn't a preferred destination for most of these players. I feel like my numbers are pretty realistic. I’m assuming Machado’s top offers peak around 10/$350M, so we’d have to go to like 10/$375M make him seriously consider us. Pomeranz at $9M & Allen at $11M seem like fair pillow contracts, if not slight conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 10 hours ago, Whitesox27 said: I can't believe how many people overvalue Narvaez on here. He had one decent season at the plate and is mediocre at best defensively. I'd trade him for Jon Gray in a heartbeat. If we should have learned anything, it is that defense can be learned at older ages for a catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 26, 2018 Author Share Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, ChiSox1917 said: why would we trade blake rutherford for Jon Gray? Jon Gray is a #5 pitcher at best Well, in my proposed deal of Avi, Rutherford and Lambert for Gray and Welker, we're also acquiring a similarly ranked prospect in Welker that plays a position of need in the Sox system (3B). Its basically a prospect for prospect deal. You'd really be trading Avi and Lambert for Gray. Edited October 26, 2018 by ChiSox59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 10 hours ago, greg775 said: That's what I always wonder about posts. If he stinks he stinks and the Sox fans aren't the only ones to see that. People point out players deficiencies all the time on here, then act like we're going to be able to trade them. Or point out everything wrong with the team, and then freak out that they aren't winning 90 games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 hour ago, soxfan2014 said: You also don't see any top prospect(s) for top prospect(s) trades. The reason is has life is that Rick Hahn talked about making prospect for prospect trades to essentially rebalance our farm system depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 11 hours ago, Whitesox27 said: I can't believe how many people overvalue Narvaez on here. He had one decent season at the plate and is mediocre at best defensively. I'd trade him for Jon Gray in a heartbeat. I see 2 decent years and another decent cup of coffee in the league a season before those 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 26, 2018 Author Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: You are not correct here. His option is still for $4.65 million. The nerve repositioning surgery that he had does not count as a UCL injury that would turn his option into a minimum salary. Hah, is this 100% confirmed? This changes everything on Jones. I was always assuming he'd be around because I thought he'd cost more to buy-out than to retain, but if this is true, this is a much tougher decision for the Sox than I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted October 26, 2018 Author Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 hour ago, soxfan2014 said: You also don't see any top prospect(s) for top prospect(s) trades. Right. But Hahn has specifically mentioned he'll be looking to do prospect for prospect deals this winter, so it definitely merits some discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Hah, is this 100% confirmed? This changes everything on Jones. I was always assuming he'd be around because I thought he'd cost more to buy-out than to retain, but if this is true, this is a much tougher decision for the Sox than I thought. No it's not. He's easily worth $4.65 million. They'll pick it up without question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 54 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said: Sign Nathan Eovaldi- 3/40 Sign Marwin Gonzalez- 2/14 Sign Kelvin Herrera- 1/7 Sign Justin Wilson- 1/5 Trade 2 prospects outside of our top 10 to Philadelphia for Maikel Franco (something like Stephens and Sheets) C- Narvaez 1B- Abreu 2B- Moncada SS- Anderson 3B- Franco LF- Gonzalez CF- Engel (I guess?) RF- Avi DH- Palka Bench- Yolmer, Davidson, Beef Rondon Giolito Eovaldi Lopez ? Jones Fry Herrera Wilson Hamilton Minaya Covey A rough 25 with a few spots open...I don’t see Machado going to the Sox so my goal would be to add pieces to start to bring the team into contention without overpaying on any long term deals. I was/am all for tanking but I also think it’s important to try and build somewhat of a winning culture and put talent around our young guys at this stage. I think this team could jump into 75 win range in 2019 with a lot of help coming full time from Eloy, Madrigal, Cease, Collins, Dunning, and possibly others in 2020 when we would really be in a position to spend $ and go for a WS. Marwin Gonzalez is going to get like $60 million. Joel Sherman today speculated that Nathan Eovaldi could get 4 years and $80 million. Some of these prices are way off IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: You are not correct here. His option is still for $4.65 million. The nerve repositioning surgery that he had does not count as a UCL injury that would turn his option into a minimum salary. Interesting, I thought (as did many here) that the clause was for "elbow surgery" and not specifically UCL injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: No it's not. He's easily worth $4.65 million. They'll pick it up without question. Yep. Especially with the payroll as low as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: I don’t think we can afford to trade Cease right now given how murky our SP situation is at the moment. How murky is our future 3B situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 42 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: I see 2 decent years and another decent cup of coffee in the league a season before those 2. All I know is that before last season, the Sox could have traded Narvaez for a bucket of baseballs and most people would not have cared at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 35 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: No it's not. He's easily worth $4.65 million. They'll pick it up without question. IF HEALTHY he is worth it. But you are gambling that on a reliever that has pitched in 44 games the last two seasons combined, and has been over 33 appearances once in the last 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 25 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: IF HEALTHY he is worth it. But you are gambling that on a reliever that has pitched in 44 games the last two seasons combined, and has been over 33 appearances once in the last 5 years. They have a ton of $$ to spend. Using that amount on hoping Jones is healthy is fine. I also don't just assume that a guy will be definitely be injured. Spending $4.65 million to see if Jones is healthy enough to trade is a gamble worth taking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 10 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: They have a ton of $$ to spend. Using that amount on hoping Jones is healthy is fine. I also don't just assume that a guy will be definitely be injured. Spending $4.65 million to see if Jones is healthy enough to trade is a gamble worth taking. I don't mind the money, but if they are going to spend on a reliever, I would prefer a safer bet on one that will be around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: I don't mind the money, but if they are going to spend on a reliever, I would prefer a safer bet on one that will be around. $4.65 million isn't really spending though. I don't think they have the space in that bullpen for another veteran addition anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 1 hour ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said: How murky is our future 3B situation? It's great if they can get one of Machado or Arenado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: $4.65 million isn't really spending though. I don't think they have the space in that bullpen for another veteran addition anyway. Honestly if the contract being at fully price is really true, I don't think Jones will be back. It would be one thing at $500k, but I don't see it at 10 times that. If they really want a veteran arm, there are plenty of others on the market, but I don't think they will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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