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Per Forbes: White Sox 6th most profitable team by operating income, valued at 1.6B overall

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The Sox are 16th in value at $1.6 billion and 6th in operating profit of $76 million.

That comes out to 4.75 % of profit divided by value.  I haven't done the calculations for all 30 teams, but for 4 of the top 5 teams in value, that percentage is right around 2.8%.  I would bet money that the White Sox are #1 in operating profit as a percentage of total value. 

Another reason to hate Reinsdorf if you're a fan and love him if you're one of the stockholders.

BTW, I always thought it was "F you"  (not FU)

 

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2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

JR has a deal where if he doesn't sell a certain number of full priced tickets, his rent is cheaper.  There was a big to do about this several years ago when they had half priced Mondays and bring a Pepsi can for half priced Tuesdays. I would think the Ballpark Pass would also be an issue, but right now, I think they don't sell many of those, and they are well under the threshold anyways.

Yeah but selling more tickets would still be more profitable unless the sell amount is right above the cutoff for rent payments. 

All this would mean is its bad to be mediocre and fail... it's better to be really bad or really good. 

No agreement he signed has it that if he sells 3 million tickets he makes less than selling 1.4 million tickets.

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2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

So the dollars won't show up on the agency who sent them out, but they will magically show up for the White Sox?  Do you work at Enron?

Those dollars won't tell us much in regards to their operating revenue though. 

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JR has said for many years that it is more profitable owning a MLB team with a low payroll. I get that and I get the fact that baseball is a business and your objective with that business is to make money.  Still, how much money is enough for JR. Forbes Magazine has pointed out that JR is a billionaire. How much more money does he need?  I've said before that this rebuild/tanking is going to be done as cheaply as possible. If it works fine. If it doesn't, it doesn't. JR will just keep making more and more money. He should be  ashamed to put out a team as bad as the White Sox have been for years  now. Obviously he doesn't care. There weren't too many White Sox fans who shed a tear when Bill Veeck sold the team. Sometime, somewhere, someday JR will sell the White Sox and there won't be any tears shed when a new owner comes in.  I'm still hoping he sells the team sooner rather than later.

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1 hour ago, Soxfest said:

Just sell JR you have no interest in being competitive 

Jerry wants to win, but that doesn't mean that he wants to throw hundreds of millions for free agents who may or may not prove to be worth it.

Save the money and spend it as needed.  That is what a successful business does.

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3 minutes ago, tray said:

Jerry wants to win, but that doesn't mean that he wants to throw hundreds of millions for free agents who may or may not prove to be worth it.

Save the money and spend it as needed.  That is what a successful business does.

He doesn't seem too concerned about winning tbh

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19 minutes ago, tray said:

Jerry wants to win, but that doesn't mean that he wants to throw hundreds of millions for free agents who may or may not prove to be worth it.

Save the money and spend it as needed.  That is what a successful business does.

And what evidence do you have that leads you to that conclusion?

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23 minutes ago, tray said:

Jerry wants to win, but that doesn't mean that he wants to throw hundreds of millions for free agents who may or may not prove to be worth it.

Save the money and spend it as needed.  That is what a successful business does.

As I've said JR does want to win... it's in his nature... but he wants to win HIS WAY. And by and large that is very different from the way other major league teams operate and history shows his way has not been that successful from a on-the-field standpoint. Now from a business standpoint he's been brilliant at it,as shown by the new stadium, the sweetheart lease agreement and others factors over the years.

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10 hours ago, raBBit said:

Re: the financials: It's far more complicated than you're presenting and I get that as you may not have the understanding necessary. Knowing how much ISFA paid for the Sox deal is only one piece of the puzzle. In order to answer Fan O'Faust's question, you would need much more detail. As his question was about the White Sox operating results (not the ISFA financials that you're clinging to in hopes of salvaging your initial inaccurate comment), that additional detail needed would have to come from the Sox. Further than that, assessing what the Sox would be paying in a market scenario would be a daunting task in itself. His question is only answered if the cost of the alternative is understood. 

Butt since you're going to get personal I'll bow out since we both know how you play with the rules. I am not sure of the relevance here. Enron was a fraud based upon bogus special purposes entities, recognizing profits before they'd been realized and conflict of interest creating Independence issues between the executive team and the public accounting firm. The White Sox took advantage of corrupt political environment. Also, Enron was a public entity so their financials and operating results are readily accessible to anyone whereas the White Sox are a private institution. Furthermore, Enron's execs were creating dubious financials to pump the publicly traded stock. Publicly traded stocks created hundreds of thousands of shareholders that the executives screwed over. Where the Sox are only beholden to only their private group of ownership and their creditor(s) (if any).  

Sometimes it's a lot easier to just admit you're wrong on the first point you made rather than moving goal posts to open up another can of worms that you can't intelligibly speak to. 

I should say though, congrats on your recent SoxTalk anniversary. 16 whole years of making 26 posts a day. That's quite an accomplishment. 

BCE19-ACD-9080-4-D07-ADF8-7-D04-A8-B482-

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22 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

1) Sure, OK. You love taking your personal shots, but get hurt feelings when it doesn't go your way. 

2) You want to call me wrong, but when you were wrong you broke every single rule of Soxtalk to destroy the evidence of everything you had ever said, and then tried to pretend it didn't happen.  If you want to talk about rule breaking, but pretend that you've done nothing, you aren't being fully honest here.  That's OK though, I am used to it. 

3) For as much as I have debated people over the years here, no one has quite gone to those lengths to have their cake and eat it too.  I can respect the people who are willing to debate and let it stand on their own merits, and not act like half of the story never happened.  I am sorry you can't do that.

1) Yeah, you can reread the exchange and see who took it personal.

2) I don't want to call you wrong, you just happened to be wrong. You speak about everything matter-of-factly whether you have any substance behind your take or not.  Also, I pointed out you were wrong so people don't think your inaccurate info is real. Your response to me doing that is moving goal posts and making it personal because at the end of the day you can't back up bullshit with facts so changing the subject was your only course. I have asked for the rules before. They don't exist. I also PM'ed you asking what the broken rules were. You didn't respond. I guess you're more concerned with the public shaming attempt here than you are in clarity towards the rules.

3) I don't even know what you're talking about. You need this to be personal and you're taking it that way because you can't debate your points on merit because they are factually inaccurate. The hypocrisy is actually impressive. Instead of admitting you were wrong in the first place, you have absolutely derailed the thread to change the subject from you being wrong to me eating cake and likening me to a fallen company you don't understand.  That's great leadership. You need to get off your pedastool.

For those who don't know, the owner of the site has a young family and a demanding career and as a result, can't manage the site as much as may he have in the past. That's a great thing and has happened to a lot of people that used to be frequent users/mods/admins. I post way less than what I did when I was in. In any case, there are a bunch of mundane, boring tasks that need to be completed like accepting new members, monitoring for spam accounts, changing users names, etc. Since 2k5 is online here all the time, he does most of this stuff. So the site's back-end functioning is a lot of stuff s2k5 does. As such, he's valuable to keeping the site running and reprimanding him or calling him on his shit isn't something people are willing to do. And no one would want him to leave the site because those tedious tasks would have to be picked up by someone else. So the externality created is s2k5 thinks he's better than everyone else, can condescend/attack people without reprimand and can use his power against those he disagrees with (regardless of "rules" and norms around here).

And while the forum's reaction isn't infallible, look at how objective people responded to this personal shit storm you created. I might flip it the other way by addressing it but there's not a lot of support for your posts in this. People seem to be responding positively to what I had to you. And I am not the most popular poster by any stretch, but I think it speaks to the fact that most people prefer factually-based reasoning as opposed to the personal digs and idioms you put out. 

Edited by raBBit
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18 hours ago, Fan O'Faust said:

And what evidence do you have that leads you to that conclusion?

Remember when they went for it every year overspending on free agents like Adam LaRoche and Adam Dunn?

There are a lot of true things said about JR on this board, but "Jerry doesn't want to win" is BS.  He should have spent last offseason, but that doesn't change the fact he wasted so much money on high price low return free agents in order to be competitive.

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18 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

As I've said JR does want to win... it's in his nature... but he wants to win HIS WAY. And by and large that is very different from the way other major league teams operate and history shows his way has not been that successful from a on-the-field standpoint. Now from a business standpoint he's been brilliant at it,as shown by the new stadium, the sweetheart lease agreement and others factors over the years.

I cannot like this post enough.  

That's why the calls on him to sell the team are ridiculous.  He owns the team because he wants to win, period.  

Tough love (not aimed at @Lip Man 1) : if you don't want to support what Jerry is doing, don't.  Go find another team or take some time off.  Yeah, it's a shame for some of us lifers, but if the way Jerry runs his team makes you mad, don't watch.  

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Some White Sox fans (including myself) have been hoping for some time that JR  would sell the team. This team has always made money for the  owners but if what Forbes is saying about the White Sox being so profitable is true. And I have no doubt there report is accurate. Realistically as along as this  team is making  some major money does anybody really think JR would sell the team? I would think there is a better chance of him selling the team if it was losing money. It looks to me like we are stuck with this ownership and  all we can do is hope for the best.

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11 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Some White Sox fans (including myself) have been hoping for some time that JR  would sell the team. This team has always made money for the  owners but if what Forbes is saying about the White Sox being so profitable is true. And I have no doubt there report is accurate. Realistically as along as this  team is making  some major money does anybody really think JR would sell the team? I would think there is a better chance of him selling the team if it was losing money. It looks to me like we are stuck with this ownership and  all we can do is hope for the best.

The talk has always been that this team would be likely to be sold after it was passed to JR's heirs for tax purposes, as the tax bill would be much higher if it was sold first and then that sale was followed by an estate to settle. I don't believe this changes that much, although I'm sure they enjoy the extra $5 or $20 million that they're taking home depending on whatever their actual ownership share is this year. 

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3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

JR being worried about years 9 and 10 in a Machado contract indicates some sort of Reinsdorf ownership for a long time.

You might be right. What a terrible thought.

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15 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

JR being worried about years 9 and 10 in a Machado contract indicates some sort of Reinsdorf ownership for a long time.

That's....a good point.

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20 hours ago, tray said:

Jerry wants to win, but that doesn't mean that he wants to throw hundreds of millions for free agents who may or may not prove to be worth it.

Save the money and spend it as needed.  That is what a successful business does.

Uh No

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1 hour ago, AustinIllini said:

Remember when they went for it every year overspending on free agents like Adam LaRoche and Adam Dunn?

There are a lot of true things said about JR on this board, but "Jerry doesn't want to win" is BS.  He should have spent last offseason, but that doesn't change the fact he wasted so much money on high price low return free agents in order to be competitive.

Lol - pointing to the signing of Adam’s LaRoche and Dunn as evidence of Reinsdorf’s commitment to winning is nothing short of completely laughable.  Also is the suggestion that they were “high priced” free agents.  The White Sox aren’t in the business of purchasing “high priced” free agents, as I think this past offseason proved.  The highest contract the Sox has ever served up is the $68M one to Abreu.  That makes the Sox one of only three teams to never offer a contract higher than that one.  This from an owner who is lazily described as someone who wants to win.  Maybe he does.  Maybe he does, but unfortunately not as much as the other owners in the game, particularly not as much as the owners of the Padres and Phillies.

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I’m sorry, I don’t buy that winning is the most important thing for JR anymore. His actions with the Sox and Bulls scream out he wants “yes men” around to not trying to change the status quo.

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JR wants to win, but he doesn’t know how anymore. It is all based on so many things having to go right, it isn’t feasible. It worked one year in baseball. MJ was his golden goose obvious withe the Bulls He and Krause couldn’t wait until Michael was gone and the. They could start getting credit for championships. Didn’t quite work out.

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40 minutes ago, Fan O'Faust said:

Lol - pointing to the signing of Adam’s LaRoche and Dunn as evidence of Reinsdorf’s commitment to winning is nothing short of completely laughable.  Also is the suggestion that they were “high priced” free agents.  The White Sox aren’t in the business of purchasing “high priced” free agents, as I think this past offseason proved.  The highest contract the Sox has ever served up is the $68M one to Abreu.  That makes the Sox one of only three teams to never offer a contract higher than that one.  This from an owner who is lazily described as someone who wants to win.  Maybe he does.  Maybe he does, but unfortunately not as much as the other owners in the game, particularly not as much as the owners of the Padres and Phillies.

You're out on an island here, man.  Jerry wants to win.  That may be the only indisputable thing.

Maybe he doesn't know how.  Maybe he's loyal to a fault.  Whatever the reason, JR wants to win but the White Sox simply haven't or can't.

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