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Reinsdorf assures Ron that Abreu will always be a White Sox

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Jose is somewhere in the middle of two posters, vilehoopster and ron883, who put their fingers in their ears yelling LALALALALALA YOU ARE ALL DUMB whenever anyone presents data that goes against their strong opinion of him.

 

 

this thread makes me love and hate him all at once 

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2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Jose is somewhere in the middle of two posters, vilehoopster and ron883, who put their fingers in their ears yelling LALALALALALA YOU ARE ALL DUMB whenever anyone presents data that goes against their strong opinion of him.

 

 

this thread makes me love and hate him all at once 

I just love your avatar.

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2 hours ago, Steve9347 said:

Abreu 2019 WAR: 1.4 (this is awful)
Machado 2019 WAR: 2.9

You're comparing the players with statistics that should have stopped being used for comparison years ago.

You can't have it both ways. If people want the new analytical stats, then get ALL baseball broadcasts to stop showing BA and RBI and ERA and Wins and Losses. Otherwise, Jose's stats are quite great this season. 100 RBIs at the end of August. Nice. Decent batting average for a slugger too. And lotsa home runs. As far as his defense, frankly, who cares? He's good at digging for the most part. I'd say he digs well on 8 of 10. He throws well on the 3-6-3 DP. He's bad on pop ups and lousy on shots to his left. He's OK to his right.

My Jose grade for 2019 season: A. How's that for a traditional stat? A grade. I wonder what everybody else gives Jose. I bet some of the 'haters' go as low as C-.

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2 hours ago, Steve9347 said:

Here's a snapshot of where Jose Abreu stands in WAR among offensive players this year: 

image.png

He's got a worse WAR than a catcher who has 104 at bats this year. FFS the guy's terrible.

Yet he was an All-Star. I'm assuming his WAR (yawn) was just as bad compared to others at the all star break when he got picked. I forget. We Sox fans don't applaud our guys for all star selections unless they are aged 25 or so or having a wild reclamation year like McCann.

p.s. Oops I'm in a praise Jose mood today which means I better log off. I am in a mood where i could be baited to express great love of Jose!

Edited by greg775
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41 minutes ago, greg775 said:

You can't have it both ways. If people want the new analytical stats, then get ALL baseball broadcasts to stop showing BA and RBI and ERA and Wins and Losses. Otherwise, Jose's stats are quite great this season. 100 RBIs at the end of August. Nice. Decent batting average for a slugger too. And lotsa home runs. As far as his defense, frankly, who cares? He's good at digging for the most part. I'd say he digs well on 8 of 10. He throws well on the 3-6-3 DP. He's bad on pop ups and lousy on shots to his left. He's OK to his right.

My Jose grade for 2019 season: A. How's that for a traditional stat? A grade. I wonder what everybody else gives Jose. I bet some of the 'haters' go as low as C-.

No one cares about your grades. 

No one. 

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29 minutes ago, Tony said:

No one cares about your grades. 

No one. 

Want to bet?

Uh, my mom cares. I can find you a friend out here who cares. So guess what? You are wrong again. You said "no one" which means u wrong.

Edited by greg775
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1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Yet he was an All-Star. I'm assuming his WAR (yawn) was just as bad compared to others at the all star break when he got picked. I forget. We Sox fans don't applaud our guys for all star selections unless they are aged 25 or so or having a wild reclamation year like McCann.

p.s. Oops I'm in a praise Jose mood today which means I better log off. I am in a mood where i could be baited to express great love of Jose!

I'll grade him a D. Then F.  Then A.

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6 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I'll grade him a D. Then F.  Then A.

Then you make terrible decisions.  Jose may not be the best player, but he is far from a DFA candidate.  This is ridiculous.  

 

Oh, and while he isn't the best player, he is probably the best hitter on this team, and has been for years, you could make an argument for Moncada, but it isn't clear cut.  And pretty much everyone else is clearly behind him.

Edited by turnin' two
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1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Yet he was an All-Star. I'm assuming his WAR (yawn) was just as bad compared to others at the all star break when he got picked. I forget. We Sox fans don't applaud our guys for all star selections unless they are aged 25 or so or having a wild reclamation year like McCann.

p.s. Oops I'm in a praise Jose mood today which means I better log off. I am in a mood where i could be baited to express great love of Jose!

Jose is going to have to hire a security guard to watch out for you. You know what they say. The ones that hate you aren't the dangerous ones. It's the one that love and worship you that are dangerous. 

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1 hour ago, greg775 said:

You can't have it both ways. If people want the new analytical stats, then get ALL baseball broadcasts to stop showing BA and RBI and ERA and Wins and Losses. Otherwise, Jose's stats are quite great this season. 100 RBIs at the end of August. Nice. Decent batting average for a slugger too. And lotsa home runs. As far as his defense, frankly, who cares? He's good at digging for the most part. I'd say he digs well on 8 of 10. He throws well on the 3-6-3 DP. He's bad on pop ups and lousy on shots to his left. He's OK to his right.

My Jose grade for 2019 season: A. How's that for a traditional stat? A grade. I wonder what everybody else gives Jose. I bet some of the 'haters' go as low as C-.

I agree with your analysis of Jose's strengths and weaknesses.  Also, I agree with your take on stats both traditional and new.  My grade is B+ and the Sox have bigger things to accomplish this offseason than finding a replacement for Jose.

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1 hour ago, turnin' two said:

Then you make terrible decisions.  Jose may not be the best player, but he is far from a DFA candidate.  This is ridiculous.  

 

Oh, and while he isn't the best player, he is probably the best hitter on this team, and has been for years, you could make an argument for Moncada, but it isn't clear cut.  And pretty much everyone else is clearly behind him.

I was being facetious.  I like Jose, but I think giving him anything more than 2 years including a club option is a really bad baseball move.

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1 hour ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I'll grade him a D. Then F.  Then A.

U really think Jose is worthy of a DFA? Cmon Breach? I keep thinking Jose has done something nefarious to garner a lot of negativity from some fans.

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9 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I was being facetious.  I like Jose, but I think giving him anything more than 2 years including a club option is a really bad baseball move.

That's all he's gonna get, breach. His third year will not be guaranteed. Bank it.

Oops I missed your sarcasm on Jose. Sorry. I can accept jokes.

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1 hour ago, poppysox said:

I agree with your analysis of Jose's strengths and weaknesses.  Also, I agree with your take on stats both traditional and new.  My grade is B+ and the Sox have bigger things to accomplish this offseason than finding a replacement for Jose.

I can accept B-minus I guess, though I think he deserves some sort of A grade. ... I still think we don't consider enough the fact he has had no protection in the lineup much of the year and puts a lot of runs on the scoreboard via hits that score runners.

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1 hour ago, ron883 said:

Jose is going to have to hire a security guard to watch out for you. You know what they say. The ones that hate you aren't the dangerous ones. It's the one that love and worship you that are dangerous. 

No he's not. I'm just a traditional fan who 'worships' him in a baseball sense. I don't care about things like autographs. If I saw him and he looked approachable I'd probably try to shake his hand and say, 'Sox fan here. Nice season; nice career, sir."

Edited by greg775

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2 minutes ago, greg775 said:

No he's not. I'm just a traditional fan who 'worships' him in a baseball sense. I don't care about things like autographs. If I saw him and he looked approachable I'd probably try to shake his hand and say, 'Sox fan here. Nice season; nice career, sir."

Not picking on you, but how old are you, Greg?

 

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5 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Not picking on you, but how old are you, Greg?

 

I said "in a baseball sense." I want to convey the opposite spectrum of those who criticize him on here somewhat forcibly. If some deem it necessary to bag on Jose aggressively ... I feel I have the right to praise him in an overzealous/aggressive way as well. It's the best word I could think of to say I feel he's great as he is. No real faults that would prevent him from earning a solid grade of A. If it offends or seems excessively foolish I guess I'll try to stop using that word.

Edited by greg775

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10 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I said "in a baseball sense." I want to convey the opposite spectrum of those who criticize him on here somewhat forcibly. If some deem it necessary to bag on Jose aggressively ... I feel I have the right to praise him in an overzealous/aggressive way as well. It's the best word I could think of to say I feel he's great as he is. No real faults that would prevent him from earning a solid grade of A.

No, I get what you mean.

But it's a little weird for a grown man to "worship" a ballplayer, IMHO. When you're a teen/tween/grammar school kid, I can perfectly see someone of that age/experience "worshipping" a ballplayer.  But as a grown man? "Worship?"

 

I mean, all of us on these boards are SOX fans, and all on the more hardcore side of things. But "worshipping" another grown man comes off as creepy, dude.

EDIT: I post this as someone who wouldn't mind Abreu being extended, and someone who finds ron's hatred of Abreu a bit bizarre.

Edited by Two-Gun Pete

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21 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

No, I get what you mean.

But it's a little weird for a grown man to "worship" a ballplayer, IMHO. When you're a teen/tween/grammar school kid, I can perfectly see someone of that age/experience "worshipping" a ballplayer.  But as a grown man? "Worship?"

 

I mean, all of us on these boards are SOX fans, and all on the more hardcore side of things. But "worshipping" another grown man comes off as creepy, dude.

EDIT: I post this as someone who wouldn't mind Abreu being extended, and someone who finds ron's hatred of Abreu a bit bizarre.

I'll stop putting "worship." But like I said I purposely tried to go extreme in order to in my mind nullify some of the hateful posts re. one of our more effective hitters.

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1 hour ago, greg775 said:

I can accept B-minus I guess, though I think he deserves some sort of A grade. ... I still think we don't consider enough the fact he has had no protection in the lineup much of the year and puts a lot of runs on the scoreboard via hits that score runners.

My grade was B+.

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The Abreu hatred is so strange. He's a really good hitter, who has played in a terrible lineup most of his career. I would also like to see what his career numbers look like with some protection. 

 

There are much bigger problems on this roster than Jose. Everyone knows he's pretty bad defensively, but he plays first base......

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1 minute ago, Paulie4Pres said:

The Abreu hatred is so strange. He's a really good hitter, who has played in a terrible lineup most of his career. I would also like to see what his career numbers look like with some protection. 

 

There are much bigger problems on this roster than Jose. Everyone knows he's pretty bad defensively, but he plays first base......

I agree with everything you said in this post.

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I'm not sure this is unique to Abreu or not, but you can look at traditional stats and see that he is pretty good, and you can look at advanced stats and convince yourself that he's not very good.  The Sox have score 549 runs this year, and Jose has driven in 100 of them.  That's 18.2% of the runs.  The player with the next most RBIs is Moncada with 63.  His WAR is 1.4.  I'd argue that's low only because without him, the Sox would have had to rely on others to score those 100 runs.  Without those 100 runs, the Sox would have lost more than they have...a lot more.  Maybe it's more of a fact that Jose truly is more valuable to the Sox than he would be to another team.  On the Twins, who seem to hit every baseball out of the park, they have no one with more than 86 RBIs.  But they have 5 players with more RBIs than anyone else other than Jose.  So, for a team like the Sox who struggle to score runs (and give up a shitload), a guy like Jose is really valuable.

So, all of my above ramblings lead to me believing that Jose is better than he's given credit for, due in large part to the team he plays for.  Because the Sox give up so many runs and don't have a lot of offensive punch aside from a couple guys, someone who drives in nearly 20% of the team's runs is pretty damn important.  How important would he be on a team team with Robert, Madrigal, a more improved Moncada, an improved Jimenez, and a more consistent Anderson?  I'd argue he'd still be important, but he won't be the best hitter on the team and probably won't be driving in the most runs.

I still believe he's valuable to this team for a couple more years, especially considering he most likely won't cost a lot.

Edited by hogan873
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20 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

I'm not sure this is unique to Abreu or not, but you can look at traditional stats and see that he is pretty good, and you can look at advanced stats and convince yourself that he's not very good.  The Sox have score 549 runs this year, and Jose has driven in 100 of them.  That's 18.2% of the runs.  The player with the next most RBIs is Moncada with 63.  His WAR is 1.4.  I'd argue that's low only because without him, the Sox would have had to rely on others to score those 100 runs.  Without those 100 runs, the Sox would have lost more than they have...a lot more.  Maybe it's more of a fact that Jose truly is more valuable to the Sox than he would be to another team.  On the Twins, who seem to hit every baseball out of the park, they have no one with more than 86 RBIs.  But they have 5 players with more RBIs than anyone else other than Jose.  So, for a team like the Sox who struggle to score runs (and give up a shitload), a guy like Jose is really valuable.

So, all of my above ramblings lead to me believing that Jose is better than he's given credit for, due in large part to the team he plays for.  Because the Sox give up so many runs and don't have a lot of offensive punch aside from a couple guys, someone who drives in nearly 20% of the team's runs is pretty damn important.  How important would he be on a team team with Robert, Madrigal, a more improved Moncada, an improved Jimenez, and a more consistent Anderson?  I'd argue he'd still be important, but he won't be the best hitter on the team and probably won't be driving in the most runs.

I still believe he's valuable to this team for a couple more years, especially considering he most likely won't cost a lot.

There are no bad hitters with 100 rbi's or who bat .300.  Advanced stats have a role in evaluation but they are not the end all.

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29 minutes ago, poppysox said:

There are no bad hitters with 100 rbi's or who bat .300.  Advanced stats have a role in evaluation but they are not the end all.

I agree.  One can't live by only traditional stats or advanced stats.  The problem on this board is that there are a few who, in regards to Jose, look at only traditional stats and ignore advanced stats, and there are a few who will look at only advanced stats and find the ones that say Jose sucks.

Jose is a good hitter who isn't as good as he used to be.  But he's going to end up with 30+ HRs, 110+ RBIs, and 35+ doubles, all while batting around .275 - .280.  Still pretty good.

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