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Have the White Sox "spent the money" that Rick Hahn promised?

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1 hour ago, Thad Bosley said:

The lease at 35th & Shields is up at the end of the decade, but unlike the late ‘80s when the South Loop was an option, is there even any location in the “downtown area” these days where a new ballpark could even be built?  I have no idea.  But it’s certainly exciting to think of the possibilities.  

I can’t think a new and improved ballpark, one with more seating than just the 40,000 capacity of the current one, won’t be something the new owner, whoever that turns out to be, won’t be thinking about seriously.  

A new ballpark with a retractable roof in the south loop + a decent team that’s always in the playoffs would give the White Sox generations of fans. 

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10 hours ago, GradMc said:

 

Reinsdorf is many things - a visionary he is not.

A long time ago it was said that the goal was to turn the White Sox into a first class operation. That has not happened. This is JR's last chance to do that unless he lives well into his 90's. I really don't know how interested he is in making the team an elite major league franchise. I don't have big expectations.

 

 

 

 .

 

 

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3 hours ago, chetkincaid said:

A new ballpark with a retractable roof in the south loop + a decent team that’s always in the playoffs would give the White Sox generations of fans. 

South loop has been built up a lot over the past 15 years or so. Is there still room?

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21 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

South loop has been built up a lot over the past 15 years or so. Is there still room?

The better question is will billionaires and politicians have the audacity to shakedown taxpayers for hundreds of millions or over a billion in taxes, especially with the current state of city, county and states finances.

Most people (taxpayers/fans) are fine with owners purchasing their own stadiums. Owners, on the other hand, in most cases have demanded taxpayers pay their capital expenses. I suspect owners will have less options in the future as other large cities are facing the same fiscal issues and constraints, and the shifting public sentiments against these extortion rackets.

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Short answer: No

Long answer: No fucking way. 

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On 2/6/2021 at 5:13 PM, NWINFan said:

 

Part of being an elite franchise is putting together a nucleus of quality players and having the money to keep those players together through solid extensions.  I believe JR would rather go into the yearly wars with what he currently has assembled and supplement through free agency and trades.  Our core of youngsters is going to be very good for a long time and I sure don't want to lose them through inability to afford them in a few more years.  We all know the arguments for "all in" moves but I for one think we will have a long extended run with the current plan of action.

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  • Yasmani Grandal: $18.25M/year
  • Dallas Keuchel: $18M/year
  • Jose Abreu extension: approx $18M average for 3 years
  • Luis Robert contract
  • Yoan Moncada extension
  • Edwin Encarnacion: $13M
  • Gio Gonzalez: $4.5M
  • Nomar Mazara: $5.5M
  • Aaron Bummer 5-year extension with 2 club options at $7.5M each
  • Lance Lynn: $8M for 2021
  • Liam Hendriks: 4 years, $54M
  • Adam Eaton: $8M avg for 2 years
  • Attempt at signing Zack Wheeler, who took the Phillies offer of $23M/year. Signed Keuchel and Gonzalez instead for about the same amount. 

 

Yes on the bolded. 

I'm not counting Abreu as anything. He was on our team, we had a hole, he filled it. That's not money being spent - it's not letting the train go off the tracks. Robert, Moncada, Eloy, etc. are all just a creative way to make it seem like money was spent. Both sides won those deals. It's not spending money. 

The Eaton, Gonzalez, Mazara's of the world? That's like the saying the Cubs are spending the money too because they brought in Trevor Willliams. You need bodies on a roster & none of those guys are remotely even anything more. 

They are well short of spending - and that was on ONE player. Actually scares me if we were to have signed Machado at 8/250 what our team would look like.... would that have meant the Sox would be rolling with Cease, Dunning, Kopech, Giolito and Lopez this year because we had zero left? 

The sox have not, and will not hold up their end of the bargain. Best case scenario is a team record contract to giolito and even at that we likely won't go above 5 years and giolito is too business smart. don't see him going team friendly. But outside of that?? Not sure what we'd do. You're set at most positions for a while. Right Field is the biggest hole for now and the foreseeable future -- there's not really any options upcoming there so I don't see many big signings anytime soon. Castallenos is maybe an option? Best place to look for in terms value is SS next year with that crop of SS. But you're not moving Anderson and unless you're moving Moncada to RF it doesn't make sense. Always can use more pitching .... so without further ado, here's that list for next year. 


Dylan Bundy (29)
Kevin Gausman (31)
Jon Gray (30)
Zack Greinke (38)
Andrew Heaney (31)
Clayton Kershaw (34)
Kwang-Hyun Kim (33)
Corey Kluber (36)
Lance Lynn (35)
Carlos Martinez (30) — $17MM club option ($500K buyout; contract also contains $18MM club option for 2023)
Lance McCullers Jr. (28)
Eduardo Rodriguez (29)
Max Scherzer (37)
Marcus Stroman (30)
Noah Syndergaard (29)
Justin Verlander (39)

If you want to make a splash to add a veteran SP next year on a shorter deal i think you have a path. Plus they're all old and we know how much the Sox love "leadership" and getting the old guys past their prime. Verlander, Scherzer, Greinke, etc

So that's my guess. I think they'll add an old vet. Not saying I agree or disagree and think a lot can changed based on how our 4/5 guys do this year. 

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This idea is slightly crazy.  Hahn was referencing the $250 million being spent.  

This could not mean $250 including every FA they sign.

Otherwise it would mean the plan was to sign Machado and NO ONE else for the next 10 years.

The only way one could logically make  sense of Hahn’s statement would be the $250 would be spent on big free agents.

Has that happened?  You cannot count lower tiered ones.

Edited by MysterySource5000
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On 2/6/2021 at 2:09 PM, chetkincaid said:

A new ballpark with a retractable roof in the south loop + a decent team that’s always in the playoffs would give the White Sox generations of fans. 

any areas near randolph street restaurant row that have huge amounts of land available? imagine that being the neighborhood from an out of town perspective. destination dining...with a ballpark not far away, and the highway still super accessible for the suburbanites, and it would be close to the united center...they could even share parking...

Edited by EloyJenkins

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3 hours ago, MysterySource5000 said:

This idea is slightly crazy.  Hahn was referencing the $250 million being spent.  

This could not mean $250 including every FA they sign.

Otherwise it would mean the plan was to sign Machado and NO ONE else for the next 10 years.

The only way one could logically make  sense of Hahn’s statement would be the $250 would be spent on big free agents.

Has that happened?  You cannot count lower tiered ones.

$250M is over 10 years, or $25M a year. Machado was signed in 2019, so it would have been a total of $50M so far. Every signing is spread out. So, yes, you can absolutely look at spending on Grandal, Keuchel, Abreu, Encarnacion, etc. 

As structured now, with so many young guys locked up, the Sox payroll will increase by $70M in 2024-25 just for Anderson, Moncada, Jimenez, Robert, and Giolito's arbitration numbers, even if they aren't able to extend Giolito.  Now some guys will come off the books by then - Grandal, Keuchel, and Abreu. But there will be other additions to fill holes, and other guys whose costs will increase. 

The point is, the Sox are spending the money, and will be spending more money in coming years to keep this contention window open. 

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5 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:
  • Right Field is the biggest hole for now and the foreseeable future -- there's not really any options upcoming there so I don't see many big signings anytime soon.

I believe the plan for RF is Cespedes, the Cuban they just signed. Eaton is the bridge.  Colas might also be in the mix if they are able to sign him during the next window. 

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On 2/6/2021 at 4:54 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

The better question is will billionaires and politicians have the audacity to shakedown taxpayers for hundreds of millions or over a billion in taxes, especially with the current state of city, county and states finances.

Most people (taxpayers/fans) are fine with owners purchasing their own stadiums. Owners, on the other hand, in most cases have demanded taxpayers pay their capital expenses. I suspect owners will have less options in the future as other large cities are facing the same fiscal issues and constraints, and the shifting public sentiments against these extortion rackets.

It's my opinion that after Jerry is gone and the lease is up the Sox are leaving Chicago. 

It's my opinion that the reason why the Sox minor league affiliates are mostly in North Carolina is to pave the way for the Sox eventual move to Charlotte or Raleigh. 

I think they're going to attempt to extort IL again and the state will think they're bluffing and then.....bye. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It's my opinion that after Jerry is gone and the lease is up the Sox are leaving Chicago. 

It's my opinion that the reason why the Sox minor league affiliates are mostly in North Carolina is to pave the way for the Sox eventual move to Charlotte or Raleigh. 

Or, it’s simply a matter of cutting down travel expenses and missed game action when transferring players around the system.

They even had a team in Bristol for a long time, with Great Falls the only outlier.

Birmingham’s in the Southern, which is the closest AA league to the Carolinas.

But you can also make logical arguments for why your AAA team should be closer to appease the fanbase, like Iowa/Cubs, Omaha/Royals, Toledo/Tigers, Louisville/Cardinals, etc.

Not to mention you made an argument against public subsidies for stadiums.   I sincerely doubt Bank of America wants to buy the Sox and loan money to itself for stadium construction...but it’s going to take a ton of money to upgrade to MLB standards.  Plus that market is already well-served by MiLB.

Finally, those affiliates are on limited number of year agreements, so it wouldn’t be that difficult to shift 2-3 of their affiliates to a completely different region within the span of 3-5 years.

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27 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It's my opinion that after Jerry is gone and the lease is up the Sox are leaving Chicago. 

It's my opinion that the reason why the Sox minor league affiliates are mostly in North Carolina is to pave the way for the Sox eventual move to Charlotte or Raleigh. 

I think they're going to attempt to extort IL again and the state will think they're bluffing and then.....bye. 

This is the definition of insanity in written form

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37 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It's my opinion that after Jerry is gone and the lease is up the Sox are leaving Chicago. 

It's my opinion that the reason why the Sox minor league affiliates are mostly in North Carolina is to pave the way for the Sox eventual move to Charlotte or Raleigh. 

I think they're going to attempt to extort IL again and the state will think they're bluffing and then.....bye. 

There aren't many people who are better at inventing things to get mad about in this world.

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24 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Or, it’s simply a matter of cutting down travel expenses and missed game action when transferring players around the system.

They even had a team in Bristol for a long time, with Great Falls the only outlier.

Birmingham’s in the Southern, which is the closest AA league to the Carolinas.

But you can also make logical arguments for why your AAA team should be closer to appease the fanbase, like Iowa/Cubs, Omaha/Royals, Toledo/Tigers, Louisville/Cardinals, etc.

Not to mention you made an argument against public subsidies for stadiums.   I sincerely doubt Bank of America wants to buy the Sox and loan money to itself for stadium construction...but it’s going to take a ton of money to upgrade to MLB standards.  Plus that market is already well-served by MiLB.

Finally, those affiliates are on limited number of year agreements, so it wouldn’t be that difficult to shift 2-3 of their affiliates to a completely different region within the span of 3-5 years.

Nope!  Jerry had a premonition in 1999 involving the future owner of the Sox telling him to keep the minor league teams in the Carolinas for the next three decades so it will be easier for said new owner to leave a top three market for the untold riches of Charlotte / Raleigh and therefore Jerry went along with the plan for...reasons.

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9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Nope!  Jerry had a premonition in 1999 involving the future owner of the Sox telling him to keep the minor league teams in the Carolinas for the next three decades so it will be easier for said new owner to leave a top three market for the untold riches of Charlotte / Raleigh and therefore Jerry went along with the plan for...reasons.

I guess it’s the natural corollary to all the conspiracy theories about leverage JR had over Jim Thompson.

Probably involves switching up ownership of the Bulls/Bobcats, so Michael Jordan can return to his rightful throne Chicago.

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Folks still running spreadsheet calculations to prove they were allegedly lied to by the front office. 

Need to let this shit go. 

 

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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

There aren't many people who are better at inventing things to get mad about in this world.

I'm not even mad.....I've never been angry about it. It's just something I've always accepted. 

 

It's a weird hypothesis I have. We'll see if it actually happens. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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My own opinion, knowing the Bridgeport area, the South Loop, U of I Circle, Taylor Street,  South Halsted street from Sox park to Greek-town, and all of the South Suburbs, is that the current location at 35th street will only gain in value and become more friendly for Sox fans  over time.   The  Reinsdorfs (Jerry and his son)  will almost certainly seek an extension on the current deal with ISA instead of seeking an alternative site to build on. In turn, the ISA will have no other alternative but to deal with them.  What would ISA's leverage be?  Put a soccer team in there ?  Knock down the park and sell the land to a developer?

I suppose the Sox could build on the site of the Old Comiskey  at some point. They could do a bang up job picking up  architectural cues from the old park and from the history of Chicago  architecture.  Much could be done to develop the surrounding area which has already undergone quite a bit of gentrification.

 

 

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