chitownsportsfan Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 13, 2014 -> 07:21 PM) What is the difference between league average and a replacement level players? An "average starter" is usually considered around 2 WAR. A replacement player is often considered to be an abstraction but in reality it's concrete and important: it's a guy you could grab off a AAA team at any time. Think Josh Phegley, Jordan Danks, Rienzo, guys like that. Not saying that's all they ever will be, but that's all they are currently. This is a good primer on it: http://www.fangraphs.com/library/misc/war/ Edited December 14, 2014 by chitownsportsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFinn Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 13, 2014 -> 05:34 PM) Rosenthal, and a couple of Dodger beat writers are confident that Friedman still wants to move Ethier. Moreover, Ethier himself wants to be traded. The money is obviously the big obstacle. L. A. is reportedly interested in another arm for the rotation, even after acquiring McCarthy: "They need one more back-end starting pitcher, as talks for Cole Hamels have cooled and the Dodgers are not targeting elite free agents Max Scherzer or James Shields. They still want to move outfielder Andre Ethier." By Ken Gurnick / MLB.com | December 11, 2014 Many of us have speculated about a Danks for Ethier trade. Maybe that is still a possibility. If that happens, many of us have argued that the Sox would need to have a couple of RH hitters on the bench, for days that Gillaspie, Ethier and or LaRoche could use a break from hitting vs. LH pitching. Viciedo could help there, although he really hasn't hit lefties like he did when he first broke in. Nevertheless, his biggest weakness seems to be those low and away breaking balls from RH pitchers. Facing southpaws helps mitigate that flaw. We can only hope that he finally matures, and begins to figure it out. My biggest concern with Dayan is that he swings so hard, and so violently, that you have to wonder if he can ever be successful with that approach. The other question that such a trade raises is, who is the other bottom of the rotation starter? Noesi is ok as a 5TH, and maybe Montas will be called upon until Rodon is ready. Or, perhaps Rodon joins the rotation, right out of Spring Training. I don't see how he could be counted upon to give them 30 starts in his first year, but maybe splitting the starts with Montas would work. After all, he couldn't be expected to provide 30 starts either. I still dream of signing Scherzer. I wouldn't say no to a trade for Andre Ethier: say the Danks brothers for Ethier and Dodgers AAA pitching prospect Zach Lee. He had a 5.38 era, but he was pitching in Albuquerque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I've been looking at Ethier -- was he injured last year or something because his batted ball data is a mess. 51% GBs and 5.6% HR per FB on the odd chance he didn't kill a worm? He just screams "old" IMO. Only .7 fWAR last year and his wRC+ sunk to just 98. He's basically a good player that is now old. Will he bounce back into an average player? I have no idea but Melky costs only money. If the Dodgers want to trade him for a bag of balls and include cash then OK, let's deal, but paying anything of actual value (aka any prospect in the top 20) seems a huge overpay. His contract is f***ing awful. Through '17 at an AAV of 17 million with a vesting option for '18 if he hits 550 PA. No, f*** it, god no. Not unless the Dodgers sent over 40 million, and usually the commish doesn't look too kindly on those deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFinn Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 13, 2014 -> 08:56 PM) I've been looking at Ethier -- was he injured last year or something because his batted ball data is a mess. 51% GBs and 5.6% HR per FB on the odd chance he didn't kill a worm? He just screams "old" IMO. Only .7 fWAR last year and his wRC+ sunk to just 98. He's basically a good player that is now old. Will he bounce back into an average player? I have no idea but Melky costs only money. If the Dodgers want to trade him for a bag of balls and include cash then OK, let's deal, but paying anything of actual value (aka any prospect in the top 20) seems a huge overpay. His contract is f***ing awful. Through '17 at an AAV of 17 million with a vesting option for '18 if he hits 550 PA. No, f*** it, god no. Not unless the Dodgers sent over 40 million, and usually the commish doesn't look too kindly on those deals. Looking over the possible outfielders, I'm reminded of 1967 when the Sox picked up Rocky Colavito for a song. Who knew that you would have rather had the song! Colavito's slash line for the Sox in 1967:.221/.306/.300—the definition of "Diddley Squat." Ethier, Crawford, Shane Victorino, Melky, Aoki—the more I look at the lot of them, the more I see Rocky Colavito. Sheesh. I could see the Sox going after Chase Headley. He would represent a defensive upgrade at 3rd base. When Adam LaRoche's contract is up, Headley could swing over to 1b-DH and make room for Trey Michalczewski. If the Sox do trade Dayan Viciedo, then maybe Matt Davidson could play left field. I saw Carlos Lee's first game in left field. I saw Carlton Fisk play left field. Davidson can't be any worse, could he? Or could Conor Gillaspie could play left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Haha, cool post Finn. Yea you'd think any pro ball player could play a decent LF after 1000 or so fungoes in spring. apparently not given Viciedo's problems! There aren't a lot of good options. I'm not completely sold on Melky but I continue to think he's the best option if he'll sign for 4 years at ~15 million AAV (averaged salary per year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 13, 2014 -> 09:56 PM) I've been looking at Ethier -- was he injured last year or something because his batted ball data is a mess. 51% GBs and 5.6% HR per FB on the odd chance he didn't kill a worm? He just screams "old" IMO. Only .7 fWAR last year and his wRC+ sunk to just 98. He's basically a good player that is now old. Will he bounce back into an average player? I have no idea but Melky costs only money. If the Dodgers want to trade him for a bag of balls and include cash then OK, let's deal, but paying anything of actual value (aka any prospect in the top 20) seems a huge overpay. His contract is f***ing awful. Through '17 at an AAV of 17 million with a vesting option for '18 if he hits 550 PA. No, f*** it, god no. Not unless the Dodgers sent over 40 million, and usually the commish doesn't look too kindly on those deals. I think you're over looking what its like for a veteran to go from an every day player to role player....especially a guy coming off of a pretty decent season. A lot of guys struggle when their routine is broken like that. I'm not saying he would be great or anything, but I think he could give us a very productive 500 PA's with most coming against righties. Probably something like .265/.330/.410 with 15 HR's. And no, I don't think it would take any of our top 20 prospects to get him. IF we do trade for him its either going to be Danks for Ethier + a little bit of $ or no body prospects for Ethier + a lot of $. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 13, 2014 -> 05:26 PM) I'm ok with weaknesses at catcher and 3b and 2b if we fix the gaping hole in RF, but that doesn't mean those positions aren't weak. People have been trying to tell us how we should go for Castro or Headley all offseason to replace those guys, while I keep replying that upgrading to an average player in RF is a much bigger improvement than upgrading 3b or C to an all star. And we absolutely need 2 platoon partners that we currently don't have for these guys. I would a gree that one OF is needed preferably RF. If the platoon players are defensive first players then you might have it. I guess I really don't consider that several. I consider that only one change. Which I think is possible. The only platoon may be at 3B but I'm not willing to give up on him yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 13, 2014 -> 06:22 PM) An "average starter" is usually considered around 2 WAR. A replacement player is often considered to be an abstraction but in reality it's concrete and important: it's a guy you could grab off a AAA team at any time. Think Josh Phegley, Jordan Danks, Rienzo, guys like that. Not saying that's all they ever will be, but that's all they are currently. This is a good primer on it: http://www.fangraphs.com/library/misc/war/ I understand the concept of who it's supposed to be it's just that it is so vague that it could be any level our Jordan Danks is probably different than a roster guy from the Twins. It makes more sense if they can say the average MLB regular is a 2 WAR player. Therefore, if you had an average player at every position you should theoretically finish 20 games ahead of a team with 4 A players which it seems you are trying to describe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 14, 2014 -> 12:46 AM) I understand the concept of who it's supposed to be it's just that it is so vague that it could be any level our Jordan Danks is probably different than a roster guy from the Twins. It makes more sense if they can say the average MLB regular is a 2 WAR player. Therefore, if you had an average player at every position you should theoretically finish 20 games ahead of a team with 4 A players which it seems you are trying to describe. You don't though. Here, let's try again: http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/war_explained.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) Bruce Levine @MLBBruceLevine 36s37 seconds ago Source tells me Melky Cabrera agrees to three year deal with WhSox pending physical . Wow. Well, there's your new LF and 2 hole hitter. Edited December 14, 2014 by CWSpalehoseCWS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Dec 13, 2014 -> 11:21 PM) Wow. Well, there's your new LF and 2 hole hitter. https://mobile.twitter.com/mlbbrucelevine No f***ing way...awesome if true! Edited December 14, 2014 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Oh Rick!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 You guys have anything else on your Christmas list? Santa Hahn has a big bag of goodies this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 No one else reporting this yet, hard to believe Bruce could break something this big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Really starting to like Danish, haha. Gotta love a minor leaguer who supports his parent club. Tyler Danish @danish_Tyler7 27s28 seconds ago Hey Melky welcome to the SouthSide! ⚾️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Oh thank you Rick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 My god Rick Hahn on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 A three year deal for Melky would be incredible. We're talking about his 30, 31, & 32 seasons. Even if you have concerns with his PED history, there is very little chance he falls apart over the life of the contract. I really hope Bruce isn't full of s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 13, 2014 -> 11:31 PM) My god Rick Hahn on fire. He's just swinging his dick around at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Guessing this was the third guy. Well, I was hoping we'd get a good defender out there, but at least this is the switch-hitting #2 batter I wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Are there no blue check marks when viewing twitter on a tablet? Also 60 followers? Are we sure that's really Bruce? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 13, 2014 -> 11:34 PM) Are there no blue check marks when viewing twitter on a tablet? Also 60 followers? Are we sure that's really Bruce? He's following 60. 27.3K followers. Its him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 13, 2014 -> 11:34 PM) Are there no blue check marks when viewing twitter on a tablet? Also 60 followers? Are we sure that's really Bruce? He's following 60 people. He has 27.3k followers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 Adam Eaton @AdamSpankyEaton 2m2 minutes ago The Melk Man!!! Welcome fella!! @TheMelkman53 #NewTeammates #SouthSide Eaton believes it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Adam Eaton @AdamSpankyEaton 2m2 minutes ago The Melk Man!!! Welcome fella!! @TheMelkman53 #NewTeammates #SouthSide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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