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There was a book that came out 15 or so years ago that said Tetrahydrogestrinone had dinner with Griffey after the 98 home run chase and said that it wasn’t fair that Sosa and McGwire got all that attention for cheating so he was going to go “on the hard stuff”. Then in 99 his new bicep tore itself in half. People read that as saying he was clean beforehand because they follow the motive and timing, but if Tetrahydrogestrinone had just been on Stanozolol beforehand, that’s the one Palmeiro and Tejada used and it didn’t transform their bodies like the THG did. Maybe even he didn’t use it as regularly but only in certain training or recovery cycles.

If we’re dumpster diving, Brad Miller could be a good platoon partner with Leury. His defensive metrics at 2B were solid and he can still hit RHP pretty well. Not what I was dreaming of when we dealt Madrigal, but the free agent 2B market is a hot mess.

Very upset. There’s a lot of things the Sox do that I can fool myself into rationalizing, but this is not one of them. Leury is needed in a backup role for just about every position on the field. Starting Leury exclusively at one position, not only limits his value, but more importantly severely weakens the roster. It does not allow the Sox to maximize talent on the roster and it hinders flexibility of the roster. Mendick’s bat is pretty much non-existent, and I have very little confidence in Romy as a major league contributor. There is also no guarantee we can acquire a better 2B at the deadline if we cannot acquire one now. We are supposed to be a World Series contender next season, in a massive market. We need to start the season with a real 2B, not a collection of bench players. That is embarrassing.

NOBODY here is more disgusted by this work stoppage than you are. In fact, nobody else here is disgusted enough. That in itself is absolutely disgusting. I've reported each and every person here who has perpetrated any falsehoods regarding the lockout.

Free Agency: Trevor Story - 112 career wRC+ estimated cost: $18M-22M+ Annually Pluses - Defense (while this has been very muted outside a tremendous 2019, lots of signs he should be a great 2b - he is excellent at DP depth), Power (career .251 iso) Walks (9% walk rae) Minuses - Unknown coors effects Below Avg vs. RHP (98 career wRC+, 83 last year, our division has excellent RHP) Contact (23% K rate) Josh Harrison - 103 2021 wRC+ estimated cost ($4-5M+ annually) Pluses - Contact (13% krate) Not bad vs RHP (98 wRC+) Defense (outs above average loves, loves Josh Harrison) Minuses - Inconsistent offense (career 98 wRC+) BABIP dependent no power Age of decline (34 years old) Jose Iglesias - 91 2021 wRC+ estimated cost ($2-3M+ annually) Pluses - Contact (14% krate) Defense (outs above average likes his 2b more than his SS at this age) Minuses - BABIP dependent offense Bad vs RHP (81 wRC+) Doesn't walk Donovan Solano - 105 2021 wRC+ estimated cost ($2-3M+ annually) Pluses - Slightly above average offensively Average power 96 wRC+ (counts as positive with this group) Minuses - Bad defensively unreliable walk rate, higher k rate 34 years old Andrelton Simmons - 56 2021 wRC+ estimated cost ($6-9M+ annually) Pluses - World class defense at shortstop Can backup TA Plus Contact Minuses - Horrendous offense Zero power BABIP driven offense Career 85 wRC+ vs RHP Trades: Jean Segura - 103 2021 wRC+ COST 14M + 1M 2023 buyout Pluses - Great defense at second Contact (13% K rate) Average vs RHP Minuses - Fathom says he is mopey and has bad vibes Lacks power Expensive money wise Tony Kemp - 127 2021 wRC+ COST $2.5M Pluses - Great OBP in 3 of last 4 years (STEAMER predicts .350 OBP) Career 103 wRC+ vs RHP, 130 wRC+ last year Good, versatile defense by OAA Seems like he should be cheap prospect wise Minuses - Not a strong history of reliable performance to trust any of the above aside from defense Jeff McNeil - 93 2021 wRC+ COST PRE-ARB did not see value Pluses - Career 126 wRC+ 3 years of control Career 132 wRC+ vs RHP Contact 14% kRate Walk Rate 13% Walk Rate Great defense at 2b by OAA very likely the most perfect fit possible Minuses - Bad 2021 Expensive by Prospects/talent likely Ryan McMahon - 95 2021 wRC+ COST PRE-ARB did not see value Pluses - Above average vs RHP (106 wRC+) Good power (.195 iso) Good walk rates Minuses - Bad contact (25-30%K) While excellent last year, in 2019-20 was a ground ball machine a la Leury Garcia Amazing at 3rd, but only average to slightly below average at 2b by OAA Likely requires a very strong package of talent Tommy LaStella - 94 2021 wRC+ COST $6M Pluses - Madrigal-level contact Good BB rate Good GB% career 107 wRC+ vs RHP Minuses - Bad 2021 Back injury in 2021 and struggled after Not good defensively, possibly very bad late bloomer Possible platoon bad w/ Leury Easiest way out of this appears to be Kemp trade. Best way out seems to be McNeil, but I have 5% confidence he's traded.

I was told it was going to be easy to replace Madrigal because second base is an easy position to find a player at.

Great win again. DeMar was MJ-esque again in the 4th. Lonzo hit a huge 3 after missing all night. Ayo was absolutely amazing. His energy brought the Bulls back after they were down by double digits in the 3rd. 2-0 against the Nets, although we caught them both times on the last game of a back to back.

If Madrigal gets elected to Hall of Fame 20 years from now, will he go in wearing a White Sox cap, or Cubs?

If they allocate 30 million towards free agents I’d be ecstatic.

Unless killer variant phi comes along, this year could not possibly get any better. Looking forward to minor league baseball. If the labor dispute gets resolved we need a national boycott day for the fans.

I’m in the minority of this board in having faith in Vaughn and want him to have a full time starting spot next year. I’d love to sign an impact 2B, but that chance has pretty much disappeared. So I’d go with the only impact position we have a realistic shot at signing…LH power DH. Went with Schwarber here, but Rizzo/Seager could be cheaper short term options. And Villar/Hernandez will be sufficient for us at 2B with our lineup, can’t have all 9 guys be all-star talents. Also have faith in Kopech next year and don’t think SP is that big of a need. Keuchle is a huge disappointment and overpaid, but he’ll be fine as a #5, is what it is. Don’t think things are completely done with Reylo being a competent SP either. Things could be MUCH worse with him as the 6th/long man. I like Jimmy Nelson or John Gant as cheap high upside pen options that can go multiple innings. Kyle Schwarber (DH) 4/60 Jonathan Villar 2/12 Jimmy Nelson 1/5 TA Moncado Robert Jose Schwarber Eloy Yaz Vaughn Villar Engel, Luery, Collins, Sheets on the bench Lynn Gio Cease Kopech Keuchle Reylo Nelson Burr Ruiz Crochet Bummer Graveman Hendricks That’s a pretty strong 26 man roster imo…and doesn’t include a solution to the Kimbrel fiasco. The biggest question is OF defense, but I’d personally be willing to gamble on that with what that lineup would be capable of doing.

I don't believe an organization should honor someone who dishonored the organization.

This is absolutely pathetic. "Dox yourself or I won't respond".

I laugh whenever I see someone say Bonds started in 99 or use the excuse that he was a HOF player before then. Bonds was great before 99, so why just start cheating at that time? I believe Bonds was cheating earlier in his career.

If you believe the Mitchell report that Clemens got his first shot with Torotno, Clemens had a measly 80 rWAR, 3 Cy young’s, 2 more top 3 finishes, and an MVP beforehand. I’d vote for that today. That’s more WAR and same number of Cy Young’s and MVPs as Kershaw today. Maybe Heyman believes he started earlier and his whole career is contaminated, but I totally believe Tetrahydrogestrinone was on stuff early in his career and just switched to “the hard stuff” in 99 as it was quoted in one book.

If we can’t trade at all and need to address RF, 2B, & SP, then I’d do the following: Michael Conforto: 4/$76M ($19M AAV) Matthew Boyd: 1/$6M Brad Miller: 1/$3M That leaves about $2M left for some random backup catcher. But man is it challenging to fill the rest of our holes through free agency. Just not a lot of 2B worth consideration, which means anyone worth a damn is coming via trade.

Also ? lol

?‍♂️

It’s at least usually filled by fun milestones… like if it wasn’t for the damned lockout we’d have the winter meetings to look forward to on Monday or sometime around there.

Dick Allen, that is all

Honestly, I think it’s a great idea for a thread. Cue one up and I’d definitely partake.

Great information that i appreciate hit men. So in worst case scenario (which is a complete possibility at this point), waiting to make the moves that fill the needs of the ballclub is a mistake, because we will have no time to make those moves (if it gets to this point of course). The worst thing that could happen to us is ending the lockout in like june and starting the regular season a few weeks from there. Would give us no time to fill our holes

Owners locked out players until July 23 last year. The Owners primarily care about the playoffs, everyone with a cable bill still pays carriage fees to the Owners for their RSNs and MLB Channel showing whatever whether there are games or not, and they'll also get reduced advertising for their replacement fishing, poker, talking heads shows, reruns of prior games, etc.. Not paying players covers any losses from the national TV contracts. COVID allowed owners to short play their 2020 Spring Training leases, but they would likely have to have financial compensation/concessions to Arizona/Florida governments to avoid attempting ST in ridiculous Summer desert/swamp conditions. At some point, a court may order Owners to begin negotiating, as is what happened in March 1995, when Judge Sonya Sotomayor saved baseball and ordered MLB Owners to send their scab players home and play baseball with actual Major League Players. Games started later in April 1995 to allow a haphazard partial spring training, played under the previous CBA terms. The final deal wasn't signed until after the 1996 season, two seasons after Sonya Sotomayor's ruling. Owners could continue negotiating with the MLB Players Association just as they had over the course of two seasons (1995-1996) until a new deal is reached. However, MLB Owners have ZERO intentions to begin negotiating in good faith unless ordered by a Federal judge or reaching a stage where the players give them nearly everything they demand. By then Supreme Court Justice Sonya Sotomayor, who saved MLB as a district judge in 1995 by striking down Owner Bud Selig's scab player scheme, is escorted by Jorge Posada to throw out the first pitch at Yankees Stadium September 26, 2009, Yankees fans hold racist tomahawks gavels to honor Supreme Court Justice Sonya Sotomayor, September 26, 2009.

reported today that the blackhawks are going to try and use statue of limitations to dismiss the kyle beach case. What a classy organization

what happens if the lockout lasts until june? Im assuming they would give teams enough time to make moves to the start of "pre season" (usually known as spring training). This ix completely unprecedented to me

Where are we at with all of this @Chicago White Sox ? So far my FA "bracket" has been busted, as two of the three free agents I wanted the Sox to acquire, Robbie Ray and Yan Gomes, are off the board, both with reasonable deals, and the Sox signed the third (Leury Garcia). Perhaps we can have a new thread with what would one do post lockout with $30M budget like we did last year. My FA picks for $30M did well overall last offseason with two on point picks (Schwarber (3.1 fWAR), Zunino (4.5 fWAR)), Pederson who did well in the Postseason (0.6 fWAR + 3 HRs & a WS) and one mediocre pick in Colome (0.1 fWAR).

It’s going to be a long off-season.

It’s going to be a long off-season.

I’ll go with Feb. 29. You can pick the year.

What a disgrace. Baseball players are ridiculously over paid as it is. I can't believe they would be so selfish as to force a work shutdown.

Too Legit to Quit. Now that he faced the tough grind of his first MLB season, took two months to get acclimated before turning in an elite performance as a 23 year old, before succumbing to the grind and some late season injuries. Outside of Robert and perhaps Kopech, Vaughn is the guy I want the Sox to keep the most among their core.

In my opinion that is the most believable excuse for his terrible performance. I hope that's it anyway.

I don’t think they were switching out balls from player to player.

1. Sure: he was -16.8 in DEF over that 3 year period, which is decidedly not "slightly below average." 2. Funny that your tout UZR/150, & not DEF. Why cherry pick one over the other? Why attack me, as opposed to the data? 3. Sorry you can't even remember YOUR OWN post, but here, I'll chop down your vomit pile of text, and quote it below. 4. Yes, you cherry picked Kimbrel being good for "54% of his innings pitched." You slice/dice, and cherry pick all the time.

he was pretty good last year

He was right about the sox trying to trade madrigal and heuer for a bigger piece. Said we were pursuing Conforto on the Nov 15th (cant remember if there was reported interest already), floated kimbrel as a trade target before anyone else, had dane dunning and lance lynn first. Alluded to cesar and tepera before we knew. What is he obvioiusly making up? Genuinely curious no snark. I wanna be tapped in like NSC lol

There is literally nothing to talk about right now. It's the offseason. I don't see the harm in sending a tweet from a guy who does have a history of information, albeit sometimes wrong..but isn't that all of our insiders?

Death, taxes, and whenever somebody posts NSC they are either called NSC or they're told that they love NSC too much. Give me some unpredictability!

shouldn't restrict us from our plans. Good for Mr. White Sox

The ball was absolutely juiced for Field of Dreams game