Tony

I totally missed him doing the “growl” on the Robert HR, and while I have probably been one of his loudest critics, it was so stupid, so weird….I loved it. Credit is deserved where it’s due, and loved that call.

Certainly not one to give the Sox any benefit of the doubt (you have much more than I) but I do wonder if this has been a calculated decision, to showcase him as much as possible because they know they will be trading him. There is historical data that does back up what you're saying, and if Crochet was viewed as a long term investment for the Sox, you would think they would handle with more caution, especially in a season when they are the worst team in the league.

I've read the last 3 pages of this thread and still have no idea what you are trying to argue here. What are you "defending" and what do you believe you are arguing against?

Canucks also retaining 15% of the deal. They need to get better, and think they will, but it’s still a good way to use the cap for right now.

While I'm far from an NBA Expert, this draft seems historically weak...aside from the contract with Giddey, I think I'd rather Giddey than No. 13

Been out of the game for 10 years...WHAT COULD GO WRONG?

And that's kind of the key. It all has to work together. I'm probably wrong on this, I get that...but I really believe if Andrew Vaughn got drafted by, say the Brewers, he's a much better hitter in the Majors than he is today. Development happens in both the minor and major league levels. And while the drafts have seemingly been better under Mike Shirley (jury still very much out on that) it doesn't mean it's going to translate at the ML Level. I need to see that first, on a regular basis, before I believe the Sox have turned any sort of corner.

This is kind of my entire point. You just went full Calfield and listed out like 30 names. And basically all of those names don't really mean anything in the big picture. Talking about Brebbia..so they trade him for something, get a prospect back. What does it matter? Why do I think they will acquire the right player back, or even if they do, develop that player at both the ML and MLB level? They have shown us over and over it doesn't really happen. So what's the point? I don't know, maybe it's just me getting older and having more and more seasons under my belt, I just can't muster up the effort to get into the weeds on the Sox and Bulls at this point. Not saying other's can't. Go nuts. And if I remember my high school self, I used to write out different line combinations for the Blackhawks, during a 20-43-11-8 season. I hadn't seen enough garbage yet. I've just seen too much, especially from the same FO's. It's why I have hope for the Bears. When Poles came in, I was skeptical and had my doubts, because it's the Bears. And I STILL have my doubts because it's the Bears. But Poles has shown me enough during his tenure, where he's allowed me to have some trust in his process, and because of that, it tells me I can start committing more time and emotion to what they are doing on the field. I just can't bring myself to do that for the Sox and Bulls. Not until Jerry goes.

The Bulls are of course in the exact same spot as the White Sox. All of the moves they do, be it Caruso, Zach, Vuc...does anyone believe it's going to lead to them building a winner? Do we have any sort of faith the owner is going to put everyone else in a position to succeed? Built for the long term with the right foundation? My answer is of course no....so what does any of it matter?

Heard Josh Nelson today say Getz won’t be at the MLB Draft Combine, even with 4 picks in the Top 80 this year. Now I don’t know how common that is, that GM’s don’t go down there, but it seemed odd to me

This was from 3 days ago lol

Frees up cash for…what exactly?

I really wish one of the beat reporters would simply ask the question in the scrum: "Chris, less than a year ago at your introductory press conference, your boss said he thought the 2024 White Sox would be better than last year, and assured fans this wouldn’t be a true rebuild. Are you on the same page with Jerry? What changed?” But of course no one will.

Jerry Reinsdorf on August 31st, 2023: “Since I’m older, I feel more of a sense of urgency,” said Reinsdorf, who turns 88 in February. “But I wanted to win from the first day. If you ever sat with me during a game, you would see somebody who wants to win even when we are 30 games under .500. “I don’t want to make predictions, but in this division and with the core of talent that we have, I would hope and I expect that next year is going to be a lot better than this year. How much better? I don’t know. But look at the core of this team.”

If he were to get traded at the deadline this year, I don't think him signing an extension is a slam dunk at all. Obviously could happen, but 2.5 years of control is still very valuable and if I was representing Crochet, while you're taking a very serious risk, I wouldn't want to limit negotiations to just one team, I'd want to see what the open market says he's worth

Getz deserves proper credit for the signing of Fedde, it was a very solid move. Now, they need to get the proper value out of him. I understand there is a group here that enjoys watching him pitch, but let’s keep in mind he’s pitching well for a team that is 19-53. He’s also 31. His value to helping the Sox actually win will be in the form of a trade, not what he does on the mound for the Sox.

It’s clear you lack the basic understanding of roster construction and team development. Maybe one day you’ll get it, keep trying

Like almost everything in life, it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. There are a handful of posters here ( @greg775) being the prime example that will rally against "rebuilding" and "tanking" at any turn, doesn't understand it, think it's the worst thing in sports ever. Here is what those posters fail to grasp. No fan "wants" their team to be bad or have to suffer through a rebuild. Not one. It's very difficult to find something everyone can agree on in 2024, but one of them is every sports fan wants to see their team win. It's why we watch and suffer through bad seasons, for the payoff of the team finally winning. Now, with that out of the way, we look at the White Sox. We know from historical evidence, acquiring top tier talent doesn't happen in FA, and while the Sox have re-signed some of their players to second contracts, they still have not given out a contract north of 100 million in their history. We also can seemingly all agree that the 2025 White Sox are not going to come close to playoff contention. That pushes us to the 2026 season, which would be the last year of control of Garret Crochet on his current deal. If the White Sox internally believe this current version of Crochet is what they expect over the next two years, they can project what that cost will be on the open market. If they are willing to make that investment in him, I don't think any Sox fans would be upset to see him signed. The reason certain fans are pushing to trade him isn't because they want him gone, but because they don't believe the Sox will be willing to pay him his worth, thus walking away with a comp pick in the process (at best), instead of acquiring 3-4 cost controlled players that can ideally contribute to the 2026-2030 White Sox. It's the harsh realities of having the worst owner in sports run your franchise. Getz will ultimately need to make that decision, just like Rick and Kenny did before them. I don't believe they made the proper investments of resources in specific areas (like player development) knowing the constraints Jerry put on talent acquisition, and that will be the biggest challenge for Getz and his team. Understanding what he'll be afforded, and working in that environment to field a team when you aren't able to sign the 200 million dollar player. I believe it can be done, as their are multiple MLB teams that have basically pulled off exactly that, but it's certainly a harder challenge than say the Dodgers, Braves, Yankees, etc.

CBS Sports put out a list ranking all 30 NBA Coaching spots. They judged all 30 positions on: How stable is ownership, and how involved is it in basketball decisions? Has ownership proven willing to spend on both players and off-court personnel? How stable is the front office, and what kind of track record does it have? How much job security does a typical coach with this team have? How talented is the roster, today, particularly when it comes to star-level players? How well-positioned is that roster for long-term success? — The Bulls came in…dead last. I mean... what did you expect? The Bulls play in the NBA's third-biggest market and their team-building approach appears to be "win as many games as possible without paying the luxury tax." The team is built around two overpaid perimeter scorers, one of whom is 34 and will inevitably extract and inflated contract out of the Bulls in free agency, the other of whom already got one and can't stay healthy. The Bulls gave away two lottery picks for Nikola Vucevic, who is now on one of the NBA's worst contracts. They owe another pick to the Spurs next year for DeMar DeRozan. They've held Alex Caruso hostage for the duration of his well below-market contract because of their insistence on competing for the Play-In tournament, but that means they'll either have to trade him for less value than they could have gotten in the past or extend him at a number that might be shaky as he reaches his 30s. Coby White is really the only thing to get excited about here, but even though he nearly won Most Improved Player, he didn't even average 20 points per game. Jerry Reinsdorf happened to buy the team that employed a young Michael Jordan. Since he retired in 1998, Chicago is 936-1,121. They've won five playoff series in the past 25 years. There are cheap teams. There are poorly managed teams. The Bulls are the most lethal combination of both that exists in the modern NBA. Job security isn't even a certainty here. Yes, Billy Donovan has lasted four years without making any playoff noise, but Jim Boylen didn't even last two full seasons. Tom Thibodeau got fired after five seasons in which he never won fewer than 45 games. Vinny Del Negro only got two seasons. There's nothing to latch onto here. The Bulls are a bad organization and exactly the sort of job any serious coaching candidate should avoid. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ranking-all-30-nba-head-coaching-jobs-right-now-why-lakers-are-near-bottom-and-dan-hurley-was-right-to-say-no/amp/

I don't really buy either of those. For one, at best, Brian Anderson and Aaron Rowand put up very similar defensive metrics in 2006 for their respective teams, and everyone agrees Brian Anderson had a good/great glove in CF. Offense wasn't the issue in 2006, it was the pitching staff and defense, specifically when Mackowiak was in CF. Second, Obviously at that point Frank was just a DH. Thomas in 2006: .270/.381/.545, .926 OPS with 39 HR's Thome in 2006: .288/.416/.598, 1.014 OPS with 42 HR's, and provided much-needed balance in that lineup hitting from the left side. Thome/Rowand was a good move and still is today. Was pretty well documented Ozzie didn't like Anderson, but his bat wasn't hurting them with a stacked lineup around him.

That team was defined by a few key things: Neal Cotts 2005: 1.94 ERA in 60 IP Neal Cotts 2006: 5.17 ERA in 54 IP Cliff Politte 2005: 2.00 ERA in 67.1 IP Cliff Politte 2006: 8.70 ERA in 30 IP Mark Buehrle 2005: 3.12 ERA in 236 IP Mark Buehrle 2006: 4.99 ERA in 204 IP I specifically remember Buehrle in 2006 simply could not be counted on, it seemed like every time the Sox had a big game, he just s%*# the bed. That season was a pretty big outlier for him, and the workload from 2005 most likely played a big part in that. Cotts and Politte were so valuable for the Sox in 2005, and both were absolute trash for the Sox in 2006. Those three guys having the seasons they did, IMO, cost the Sox the division.

Correct. What clubhouse has been "good" at 17-50? It almost would be more alarming if the clubhouse WAS in a good spot at 17-50. It shouldn't be.

The results on the field wouldn't change, but it's amazing to me the lack of transparency the Sox have decided to show. When Getz did his initial media tour, he used the same line on multiple shows. "We have a responsibility to our fans to earn their trust back." Ok, easy line to say, a lot of FO's say the same thing, but if you really have zero interest in doing that, then don't say it. Getz could have bought himself so much more rope with the fanbase if he just would have come out and been somewhat transparent with what he is "trying" to accomplish. "From a foundation standpoint, this organization was not left in a great spot. You had a baseball operations department that was here for a very long time and you started to see a deterioration in the quality of the overall organizational talent over the last few years. So as I sit here today, we're doing so many things behind the scenes to start to build those foundations the right ways, make the right investments, to allow us to have a strong pipeline of talent from the lower levels of the minor leagues all the way to the Major League Level. But that process is going to take time, and it's what I'm focused on from the moment I wake up until the moment I fall asleep. Sox fans deserve it, and that is our only goal right now. I promise Sox fans they'll start seeing it on the field over the next few seasons, but it's going to take some time to start seeing our effort pay off at the Major League level." Fine, you at least told me you had a process, you're gutting the house, taking it down to the studs. Even a quote like that will make me feel 10% better about things, it tells me you want to engage and speak to the fan base and you at least took the time to come up with a quote. But of course, none of that was done. The closest we got was Getz saying "I don't like my team." Super. Once again, the lack of just effort, which of course comes from the top, is always front and center for the White Sox. They just don't care.

Jake Diekman came to mind. Guy put up a 7.04 ERA with the Sox in 30 IP over 2022 and 2023. He went to the Rays, during the 2023 season, and put up a 2.18 ERA in 45 IP. That to me screams "We don't know what to do with this guy, but a team with a better organizational structure will"