tray

It is time to stop trading young prospects for guys that are 30+ years old, or the Sox will become the 2021 Cubs needing to rebuild more quickly than anticipated.

I would rather trade Keuchel than Kopech , but full disclosure, I can't stand Keuchel.

The need for depth at Catcher might have more to do with the lack of confidence in Yermin and Zavala . The Sox may need a catcher to step in in the event Grandal gets injured or Collins' performance is unacceptable.

Stats don't tell the whole story about these players. There is a lot more to player and trade evaluation, as you know. If Darvish goes on the DL for an extended time or has another year like he had in 2018, Ricketts and Hoyer will feel vindicated for that trade, even though they may have gotten zilcho (other than debt relief) in return. You just never know but age is something that is always major factor for major league players. Of course, I am one that did not like trading Dunning . It is not that I did not want starting pitching depth. Rather, I just didn't want to trade Dunning to get it.

Hang in there G man and stay strong.

Darvish is 34 years old and has about 59 Million left on his contract. He is no different then other pitchers that are injury prone except he is older and more expensive than most. So I would not want him for that price. Neither did Ricketts.

Assuming that is the expectation how does that impact how he is handled ? Let him start in the Minors and pitch until he blows it up or hold him back, using him as a reliever and delaying the inevitable ?

My guess is that the Sox would not have picked Crochet if they thought he would be a bullpen pitcher. If Crochet injures his arm and needs TJ surgery after limited action, there will be a lot of what-ifs about why they drafted him in the first round.

Valid points made on both sides about whether the Sox should pursue Bauer on a one year deal. After reading the 2019 SI piece (linked below) about him, I tend to side with those who do not want to take the chance of having that @hole destroy team chemistry. https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/02/19/trevor-bauer-cleveland-indians-training-tools-twitter-controversy-cy-young Bauer may not get what he wants (a large one-year Contract) given the reticence of owners to spend during a pandemic. At the right price i suppose you sign him and hope he gets off Twitter, shuts up with his ReTrumplican politics (including climate change denial) , and makes an effort to be a good teammate. I don't know...maybe just pass on that dude.

After reading the posts about Crochet here, it is apparent that many fans believe his chances for injury in 2021 are great. If the speculation about Crochet's susceptibility to injury becomes an unfortunate reality, we are talking about 2023 before he come back. Watching him pitch does make one feel that his arm is a ticking time bomb, although Chris Sale lasted several years despite similar speculation.

Renteria was under pressure or at minimum, felt pressure to start Hahn's boys, Mazara and Encarnacion. Remember, Hahn could have made the decision to bring up Vaughn and Collins, but didn't . That pretty much set the tone for the last 10 games of the regular season and the play-offs. Fly the white flag, Ricky gets stuck holding it and Hahn walks away as the hero.

I never stated what you claim I did, including that the Sox would want to trade Vaughn or anyone else. My point was that the Sox might and maybe should want to acquire Howard if that could get done ...for the reasons I stated and I merely wondered what the Cubs might ask. Again, I don't want to go back and forth on this with aggressive posters but I do not like it when people try to put words in my mouth and spin or mischaracterize what I have written.

I simply asked what it might take to get Ed Howard and opined what the Cubs might demand. Despite that a few of you personally excoriated me like I am some kind of stupid mofo. Are you people alright? What triggered you? Are you really that self absorbed, looking to one up an anonymous poster, or are you just that angry. Trust me, your responses rolled off me like water off a duck and I will not nor do I ever respond in kind with hostile personal responses. If you choose to escalate this, go ahead but I am out on this thread after I say one more thing to explain why I inquired about Ed Howard. Remember the White Sox passing on Howard.... "White Sox are well positioned to make a big splash in tonight’s draft. They have to at least be strongly tempted to use the 11th pick overall on the best position player prospect from Chicago in years, Mount Carmel High shortstop Ed Howard. Howard has been on their radar since he led the Jackie Robinson West team to a title in the Little League World Series. He has spent time in the Amateur City Elite program run by the White Sox, which helps inner city players hone both the baseball skills and academics necessary to attend college. Recently Howard has been mentored by Sox shortstop Tim Anderson, who he told the Athletic’s James Fegan is his favorite player. " So, yes, I still want a kid from the South Side, a Sox fan who came up in the White Sox Amatuer program. As far as what it might take, that is merely conjecture. I think the Cubs might want Vaughn plus another high level prospect. In my opinion, Rick Hahn and the Sox made a mistake in not selecting Howard. I think they may have made another mistake in taking Vaughn, a one dimensional player who I do not believe can play defense at the major league level at any position , including first base. And he cannot run the bases. Well, time will tell on those picks. Meanwhile, the Cubs might have a need for a DH with the departure of Kyle Schwarber, but Howard is probably viewed as a more valuable asset than Vaughn at this point, by a lot. That is why they might want additional compensation in a potential trade. I think they would probably want a pitcher and they might start asking for a top pitching prospect like Kopech or Burdi or Stiever. I am just a life long loyal White Sox fan putting a scenario out to try to encourage friendly conversation during the off-season. IMHO strictly as a fan, I would like to see the Sox open a conversation with the Cubs about Howard and see where it might go, because I think Howard fits better on the South side. Well, nice talk here, as usual. Anyway, magnanimously wishing all White Sox fans and their families good health, peace and prosperity , as well as a World Series Championship in 2021.

I wonder what it might take to get the Cubs to trade Ed Howard? Something like Kopech plus Vaughn ?

Look, if the Sox want Colas, there is a legal path to sign him on Jan 15 that would not violate mlb rules or the law, as I set forth above. I doubt Oscar is going to wait to sign until Jan 2022 because he really wants to play for the White Sox more than another team. and in the meantime, he sees that Cespedes is getting 2 Million.. Not going to happen. OK, if that is what you think..wait and see what happens in January. Maybe that wink and a nod /sit tight/ see you next year strategy will work. I doubt it.

There is no way any competent agent/attorney representing Colas would agree to a handshake deal predicated on future compensation. That is pure folly. Furthermore, such a scheme would be exposed as a thinly veiled attempt to conspire to violate the applicable rules. Also, despite whatever the Sox may want, Colas may want a deal done this this year, not next.

I don't think they would risk severe penalties from major league baseball for that. As far as the agreement with Cespedes, it might not be a signed contract and if it is , it still might be an executory contract that can be voided by either side (since the technical date that they are authorized to sign is January 15, 2021). In any case, the Sox did not have all of the facts when they made the "agreement' with Cespedes, so they would be justified in calling it a mutual mistake and then recalculating their signing priorities. If it is a matter of choosing Colas or Cespedes, the Sox should get the player they want. I have heard of the Sox being interested in Colas before they expressed interest in Cespedes. Cespedes is never going to have the power that Colas has. Colas could be a monster at the plate and fit perfectly in the Sox outfield with Robert and Eloy. That is what a lot of us thought the plan was all along.

Those are all fansided/BR articles saying their teams should pursue him. Which does not suggest that they won't. "Colas' market will come into focus post-workout, likely well into seven figure area, 8-10 clubs keeping close tabs, including White Sox and Astros." @JesseSanchezMLB and @BenBadlerhave been on both stories. Colas wants to play and does not want to spend another year in limbo after what he went through in Japan. " After a tumultuous year away from baseball, powerful outfielder Oscar Colas said he is now ready to sign with a big league club thanks in part to the lessons he learned from his time in Japan. " https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2020/12/19/baseball/japanese-baseball/oscar-colas-mlb/

LA Angels Boston Red Sox NY Mets Yankees Not sure how much pool money they have, but there is interest from other teams.

Sox may have screwed the pooch by signing Cespedes and not leaving room for Colas, who may very well be a superior prospect. Was this Rick Hahn's decision?

Colas looks like he would fit perfectly in RF. I like that smooth LH swing with that big bat he is using, I would renege on the Cespedes deal if that is what it takes to get Colas. And yes, I am mindful of how the decision to trade up for Trubisky worked out.

Just from watching highlight videos (all I have to go on) , I think Colas may have even more of an upside to his career than Cespedes. I Like Colas left hand swing and his ability to adjust and hit the ball the opposite way. Where Cespedes strength looks like it mainly comes from the weight room, Colas seems to have natural core strength albeit covered by a lot of baby fat. If Colas slims down and loses the gut, I think he could be major league material right away.

Only to a degree. Otherwise anyone could hit major league pitching.

From Harold's Fangraph link: " As you'd expect given his lineage, Cespedes has prodigious physical gifts, including elite arm strength. I do not think he'll hit enough to play a big league role, though. His long, noisy swing causes him to be late on velocity and Cespedes hasn't played or seen live pitching regularly for nearly four years, and when he has played, he's struck out a bunch. The error bar around Cuban players is big because the context in which they're evaluated is often strange, but I'm pessimistic about the bat based on the info I have." -------------------------------------------- Bat-to-ball skills and eye/hand coordination cannot be taught. It makes one appreciate Eloy, Abreu, Moncada and Madrigal--hitters that just seem to have advanced eye-hand coordination, quick reflexes and the natural instincts to hit a major league fastball.

I would have rather passed on Lynn, then pass on Hendriks, and then over-pay a bit for Bauer. Dunning for Lynn looks like a half @ss Rick Hahn plug-the-holes move. This off-season, cast the net for the big fish Trevor Bauer and reel him in. This is go time.