Jump to content

Sox send Frazier/DRob/Kahnle to NY ~ Rutherford/Clarkin/Clippard/Polo


southsider2k5

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Apr 3, 2018 -> 04:18 PM)
The only takeaway is they aren?€t that great at evaluating players at A level and below. Above that level they are much better. I?€m seriously amazed how so many of you have completely given up on Rutherford after how useless Leury Garcia, Sanchez, Avi, Davidson, etc all looked for years and have now become contributors. It took Micker years to show anything at all. If he ends up being a late bloomer who doesn?€t get to the majors until 24-25 so what? Not everyone fast tracks it through the minors. He didn?€t suddenly lose the natural talent he has.

 

If those five players you just mentioned are a part of the next playoff team, or contribute back pieces to it...it?€s a win. Another takeaway is that Preller has an encyclopedic obsession with Latin America, but pushes borders ethically, lol (see fired Braves’ GM or Chris Correa of the Cards/Astros.)

 

Time will tell.

 

They did make the right call on Quintana at that High A/AA stage...and he got them back Jimenez and Cease. For all we know, that one waiver claim is what pushes the rebuild over the top.

Edited by caulfield12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 3, 2018 -> 05:18 PM)
Let me ask you this...what are the odds he turns into a better player than Avi?

Right now I’m not optimistic because of how poorly he performed in 2017. Even with BABIP regression, Avi is probably a 2 to 2.5 WAR player and it’s hard to automatically assume any prospect in low A is going to be that good in the majors short of the most elite prospects. Rutherford is definitely not that type prospect.

 

But I’m a huge fan of prospects who are considered to have plus hit tools, strong plate discipline, & projectable bodies. I get why scouts were intrigued with Rutherford, although I do think he was bit overrated even before his poor 2017 season. But the talent is there IMO, the question is can he be harnessed. I am concerned whether the Sox are the team that can actually do that or not and the Yankees selling him at a low point is an obvious red flag. I’m still taking a wait and see approach on this deal because the preliminary returns from their other big trades look fantastic and the Sox were obviously high on Rutherford and hopefully did their homework.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 3, 2018 -> 05:02 PM)
I’m not suggesting teams would have given up much for him.

 

I’m suggesting I would have preferred NOT to have to package Kahnle to give the Yankees the privilege of getting a guy back that had high-leverage experience in New York.

 

I would have much preferred to give them Swarzak, Robertson and Frazier for Tito Polo and Clarkin, for instance.

 

I would absolutely include a middle reliever to get a top positional prospect. Even the best middle relievers are worth no where near what a starting CF is worth, let alone a potential star one.

 

Swarzak brought back his own potential starting OF in Cordell, so that would under two trades there. When it comes to middle relief, the Sox can trade it away all day as far as I am concerned for those sorts of returns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 3, 2018 -> 03:44 PM)
I would absolutely include a middle reliever to get a top positional prospect. Even the best middle relievers are worth no where near what a starting CF is worth, let alone a potential star one.

 

Swarzak brought back his own potential starting OF in Cordell, so that would under two trades there. When it comes to middle relief, the Sox can trade it away all day as far as I am concerned for those sorts of returns.

I think you are underselling Kahnle there. He doesn’t profile as a “middle reliever” in any bullpen other than perhaps the one he currently finds himself. He was starting to show the ability to be an elite high-leverage reliever when we moved him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hopefully if the Sox have a regular prospect failure rate, if Rutherford is one , hopefully Micah Johnson, Frankie Montas, Trayce Thompson, count as well, the Sox could be in pretty good shape. Obviously it would be nice if Rutherford somehow becomes the player many had thought he could become, but I think it is more important their better prospects turn out. Then they really would be cooking with gas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 3, 2018 -> 04:24 PM)
If those five players you just mentioned are a part of the next playoff team, or contribute back pieces to it...it?€s a win. Another takeaway is that Preller has an encyclopedic obsession with Latin America, but pushes borders ethically, lol (see fired Braves’ GM or Chris Correa of the Cards/Astros.)

 

Time will tell.

 

They did make the right call on Quintana at that High A/AA stage...and he got them back Jimenez and Cease. For all we know, that one waiver claim is what pushes the rebuild over the top.

Sox got very lucky on the Quintana pickup.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 3, 2018 -> 05:41 PM)
Right now I’m not optimistic because of how poorly he performed in 2017. Even with BABIP regression, Avi is probably a 2 to 2.5 WAR player and it’s hard to automatically assume any prospect in low A is going to be that good in the majors short of the most elite prospects. Rutherford is definitely not that type prospect.

 

But I’m a huge fan of prospects who are considered to have plus hit tools, strong plate discipline, & projectable bodies. I get why scouts were intrigued with Rutherford, although I do think he was bit overrated even before his poor 2017 season. But the talent is there IMO, the question is can he be harnessed. I am concerned whether the Sox are the team that can actually do that or not and the Yankees selling him at a low point is an obvious red flag. I’m still taking a wait and see approach on this deal because the preliminary returns from their other big trades look fantastic and the Sox were obviously high on Rutherford and hopefully did their homework.

 

 

Same here

I’m not real confident in Rutherford hitting his ceiling either. Honestly our organization doesn’t have the best history of developing these types of players, but might as well be patient at this point. Would love if he could be our version of Max Kepler who I have an armchair scout crush on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just wanted to add to the conversation here... that I live in Charleston and had the opportunity to see a lot of Rutherford playing with the Riverdogs. The Ryan Sweeney comps aren't off. There isn't anything he does that stands out. He was just "good" at about everything. Saw a lot of pitches, hit for a decent average. Hit some homers and got some extrabase hits. Ran the bases well. Took decent routes and hit the cutoff man. Didn't make a lot of mistakes. But there's nothing about him that screams out "All-Star" or franchise cornerstone. He was a hyped prospect mostly because of where he was selected and less about what he can do on a field.

 

My guess is the Sox asked for a lot from the Yankees in that deal but because of the financials involved were probably given a list of 8 guys the Yankees would include and were told "pick 3".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ Apr 4, 2018 -> 01:28 PM)
I just wanted to add to the conversation here... that I live in Charleston and had the opportunity to see a lot of Rutherford playing with the Riverdogs. The Ryan Sweeney comps aren't off. There isn't anything he does that stands out. He was just "good" at about everything. Saw a lot of pitches, hit for a decent average. Hit some homers and got some extrabase hits. Ran the bases well. Took decent routes and hit the cutoff man. Didn't make a lot of mistakes. But there's nothing about him that screams out "All-Star" or franchise cornerstone. He was a hyped prospect mostly because of where he was selected and less about what he can do on a field.

 

My guess is the Sox asked for a lot from the Yankees in that deal but because of the financials involved were probably given a list of 8 guys the Yankees would include and were told "pick 3".

Wonder who the 8 were

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Apr 4, 2018 -> 02:28 PM)
In fairness to Sweeney, he had one of the prettiest swings I've ever seen, on any level. It's not hard to see why people were excited about him. Some guys just don't pan out. It happens to more prospects than those who make it, in literally every single organization.

Fangraphs also had Sweeney putting up 6 WAR between 2008-2009. That's not bad either.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 15, 2018 -> 11:00 PM)
Can we argue that Clarkin is now ahead of Guerrero/Stephens as the next starter in line after Dunning?

 

1) Kopech

 

2A) Cease

2B) Hansen (I know some will argue it's not quite fair to jump Cease up so quickly, but...)

 

3) Dunning

 

4) Clarkin

 

5/6) Guerrero or Stephens

I think you’re overreacting to two good starts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 15, 2018 -> 11:00 PM)
And there’s the jinx. Thank god you didn’t mention Blake, maybe he’ll return to blue chip form now.

If this jinx and antijinx talk is true I should probly criticize your posts a bit. Maybe then you'll turn it around and we'll get some quality posts from you

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 15, 2018 -> 10:03 PM)
I think you’re overreacting to two good starts.

 

Well, considering most of the board has Stephens going to the bullpen...Clarkin, theoretically, has a bit more value as a LHP and theoretical #4/5 starter.

 

Now whether he's ahead of Guerrero, I'll let those who follow the minors more closely make that decision in terms of the upsides for each.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...