Moncada

[footlongcomiskeydog]

1 minute ago, Flash said:

My question was how he might be valued. What could he bring back in trade now, regardless of how we see his value?

Dude, do not ask questions like this around here. All thoughts, opinions,and questions about Moncada must only be positive and uplifting in nature. 

Moncada's value has cratered since the Sox traded for him. Hahn would get laughed out of the room if he tried to trade him one for one for a young second baseman like Albies or Torres.

Former Sox castaway Alen Hansen is currently a better player than Moncada. That should tell you all you need to know.

Hahn should have stood firm with Boston and gotten Bentintendi instead of Moncada but a bad gm is a bad gm.

[Greg Hibbard]

Why would every other team evaluate him as anything currently other than as a three outcome 2 war player who strikes out a ton? I think everyone would look at his slash line, inconsistency, k rate, errors and try to offer less than he’s probably worth long term to try to pry him away at a safe bargain. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

5 minutes ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said:

Dude, do not ask questions like this around here. All thoughts, opinions,and questions about Moncada must only be positive and uplifting in nature. 

Moncada's value has cratered since the Sox traded for him. Hahn would get laughed out of the room if he tried to trade him one for one for a young second baseman like Albies or Torres.

Former Sox castaway Alen Hansen is currently a better player than Moncada. That should tell you all you need to know.

Hahn should have stood firm with Boston and gotten Bentintendi instead of Moncada but a bad gm is a bad gm.

You are insufferable 

[Greg Hibbard]

1 hour ago, Jake said:

FWIW the thing that pushes Schwarber's D into the positive is the arm component, which is the hardest part to keep afloat in the long haul as runners wise up. And IMO Statcast has the best method for grading outfielders on their ability to catch the ball. It does not make Schwarber look good at all. This is of course an apples to oranges comparison because we know Yoan Moncada would be a better LF than Kyle Schwarber.

And is Yoan getting better or worse on defense? It's hard to say quantitatively. What I will say is he had a run of bad errors that coincided with the depths of his batting slump. I think those kinds of things are the most easily corrected class of fielding problems. His UZR range component has been consistently good and I believe that to be the hardest thing to improve for an infielder — it's kind of like trying to get a guy to run faster. His double play component of both UZR and DRS has improved. I see some upside for an above average defender in Yoan, perhaps even better than that. He so far has struggled with committing errors, so the downside is that he's below average. I tend to think he'll be about average when it all washes out as he probably doesn't have the hands to avoid some simple errors but has the athleticism and arm strength to make up for it with good plays.

Last, the idea that Yoan is presently *bad* overall is nonsense. If this Yoan Moncada is all he'll ever be, he's a middle of the road MLB player and could play up in a platoon in the right roster configuration. He's already better than Gordon Beckham ever was at 2B. By Sox standards, that means he has 4-6 seasons ahead of him before we close the books.

This is exactly correct. I think we have been conditioned to think of Yoan in terms of who was traded for him and that’s what is coloring a lot of the instant responses to this thread. the only two outcomes in people’s minds right now are

1) sale like superstud

2) total bust

when that’s really unfair. The most likely outcome is that Yoan is an above average to good player, but because of the K rate perhaps not at the level of greatness hoped for for him. 

However people need to really get their minds around the notion that we are in this with Moncada for that stretch- 4-6 seasons. I could see a scenario where Moncada ends up at third. I could see Madrigal/Anderson/Moncada splitting time at multiple positions. 

I think the other thing people aren’t considering is that during the off-season Yoan will be able to address what went right and wrong in a much more substantial way than he can during an almost everyday schedule in the dog days of his rookie season.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Greg Hibbard

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Flash said:

Curious what trade value Moncada might have. How would opposing GMs view his value? Could he bring back a 55 FV SS or 3B prospect?

Lol what?

[Chicago White Sox]

47 minutes ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said:

Dude, do not ask questions like this around here. All thoughts, opinions,and questions about Moncada must only be positive and uplifting in nature. 

Moncada's value has cratered since the Sox traded for him. Hahn would get laughed out of the room if he tried to trade him one for one for a young second baseman like Albies or Torres.

Former Sox castaway Alen Hansen is currently a better player than Moncada. That should tell you all you need to know.

Hahn should have stood firm with Boston and gotten Bentintendi instead of Moncada but a bad gm is a bad gm.

There are the Albies & Torres comparisons...right on cue!

[Chicago White Sox]

42 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

You are insufferable 

POTY.

[footlongcomiskeydog]

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

There are the Albies & Torres comparisons...right on cue!

What is wrong with comparing Moncada to his young peers at second base?

People compare themselves to their fellow peers all the time.

Is what I said wrong? Do you really think Moncada is a more valuable player than Albies or Torres?

[thxfrthmmrs]

58 minutes ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said:

Dude, do not ask questions like this around here. All thoughts, opinions,and questions about Moncada must only be positive and uplifting in nature. 

No but it's pretty evident around here that you get off on whining about Moncada and tries so hard to get people so whine with you, and you put that over your fandom for the White Sox, which is questionable at this point. Your posts are negative in nature and do not carry any insight behind it other than constant whining about the same thing.

[Chicago White Sox]

22 minutes ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said:

What is wrong with comparing Moncada to his young peers at second base?

People compare themselves to their fellow peers all the time.

Is what I said wrong? Do you really think Moncada is a more valuable player than Albies or Torres?

Nothing wrong with comparing them if the context is they are farther along in their development.  Unfortunately you try use their current performance as proof they will always be better players long term which is quite absurd.  And quite frankly, you bring up this point like once a day.  We all understand your position that young plays are stars or busts after 600 plate appearances.  At this point you’re either using this site as forum to whine relentlessly about a kid not being an instant stud or you’re simply looking for attention.  Either way it’s really annoying and bringing down the overall quality of board.  Why don’t you try bringing something new to the table for once?

[footlongcomiskeydog]

13 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

No but it's pretty evident around here that you get off on whining about Moncada and tries so hard to get people so whine with you, and you put that over your fandom for the White Sox, which is questionable at this point. Your posts are negative in nature and do not carry any insight behind it other than constant whining about the same thing.

I have posts in other threads that have nothing to do with Moncada. 

You also need to look around a little. Anytime anyone brings up anything negative about Moncada they are quickly swarmed by a few select posters quickly coming to his defense and reaffirming the party line that everything is okay.

The Sox have been selling this kid as a Porsche from the moment they traded for him. It's too bad that he looks like a Toyota Corrolla at this point.

 

 

[Jose Abreu]

Moncada: 2-3, HR, BB

*crickets*

 

Moncada: 0-4, 4 K

HE'S A TOYOTA COROLLA AND IS ONLY GETTING WORSE 

[footlongcomiskeydog]

Message received.

Please don't forget to save me a seat at Moncadas hall of fame ceremony. 

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Moncada: 2-3, HR, BB

*crickets*

 

Moncada: 0-4, 4 K

HE'S A TOYOTA COROLLA AND IS ONLY GETTING WORSE 

<Alen Hansen 

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said:

I have posts in other threads that have nothing to do with Moncada. 

You also need to look around a little. Anytime anyone brings up anything negative about Moncada they are quickly swarmed by a few select posters quickly coming to his defense and reaffirming the party line that everything is okay.

The Sox have been selling this kid as a Porsche from the moment they traded for him. It's too bad that he looks like a Toyota Corrolla at this point.

 

 

No, people come to his defense because most of the negative comments make him off to be the worst player in baseball history and ignore the fact he’s a 23 year old still developing.  Some posters here have a creepy emotional attachment to Yoan because he was the centerpiece in the Sale deal and are actually bitter he’s not an instant star.  It’s frustrating to stand by as the vocal minority here talks about how he’s a bust, that he’s lost all his trade value, or how he’ll lose the job to Madrigal in a year.  Most of us accept Moncada is not a finished product & must get better for the rebuild to work, but can also acknowledge he’s not a bad player in his current state despite what the small group of haters here want to believe.

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said:

Message received.

Please don't forget to save me a seat at Moncadas hall of fame ceremony. 

It’s like your actively rooting against him.  The hate you have for him is beyond creepy.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

<Alen Hansen 

Don’t forget MonKada isn’t half the defender Babe Schwarber is!!

[southsideirish71]

Here is what people need to understand.

In this phase of the rebuild, the team is going to be populated with the following.

1.) Prospects who have been promoted to the MLB team.  They are developing and taking their lumps up here.  They will look like Allstars one day, and like shit the next.  If you plan on living game to game with these kids you are going to die of a coronary before the season is over.  Relax.  

2.) Fringe guys who were acquired via trade or waivers.  These are lottery tickets.  They may work out, they might be bench players on a future team, they might be nothing.  They cost nothing and they are currently blocking no one so why fret over this.  The minute one of these guys is blocking Eloy or Kopech wake me.  Otherwise they are filler.

3.) Role Guys, same as above.  Some of them are older.  Everyone wants to trade all of them because of some value that maybe we only have.  

4.) Abreu

 

Relax and stop living day to day with this team.  It's a big picture time.  Some of these guys will work out.  Some of them won't.  The point of a rebuild is to get as many of these type of top end prospects to have a higher probability that multiple guys hit at the same time.  I for one am up for the long term plan because watching the old around 500 team with the hopes of catching lightning in a bottle hasnt worked forever.  Lets see what happens with this. 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by southsideirish71

[The Sir]

Couple of quick points:

1) There is always the possibility for improvement, but Moncada’s Ks are worrisome. Being a star will be hard at a 33% K-rate. That has to come down, and this has always been the crux of my argument.

2) “Let them develop” is a fine stance, but let’s face it- our FO hasn’t really earned trust on this one. If I was a Cubs fan, sure, let them develop! Happ, Baez, Almora, Contreras, Bryant...all players on their current roster that were molded by that system into pretty solid MLBers. What proof do we have that this organization develops good hitters? I’m not exactly breaking new ground here.

3) It doesn’t mean trade them or demote them or whatever, but as a fan, can’t we have a Soto? Or even an Acuña? It would be nice if a guy just came up here and RAKED. We haven’t had that since Beckham, who promptly fell off a cliff.

Obviously, Moncada’s got time to show his value, but there are valid concerns and some frustration is warranted. I’ll love this team ‘til my last breath, but they haven’t exactly exuded competence in the last decade.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I swear on days when Moncada looks bad he looks like he's had a couple of bong hits . Let me just stand here and watch the pretty pitches go by 

[Panerista]

10 hours ago, Flash said:

Curious what trade value Moncada might have. How would opposing GMs view his value? Could he bring back a 55 FV SS or 3B prospect?

To answer a different thread: This, my friends, is rock bottom.

[Flash]

27 minutes ago, AustinIllini said:

To answer a different thread: This, my friends, is rock bottom.

Only if the answer is no.

[Panerista]

16 minutes ago, Flash said:

Only if the answer is no.

No, seriously.  That level of bad take is rock bottom.  

[oldsox]

Is there a stat for 0 and 2 counts?  Moncada has to lead the league.

[ChiSox59]

11 hours ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said:

Dude, do not ask questions like this around here. All thoughts, opinions,and questions about Moncada must only be positive and uplifting in nature. 

Moncada's value has cratered since the Sox traded for him. Hahn would get laughed out of the room if he tried to trade him one for one for a young second baseman like Albies or Torres.

Former Sox castaway Alen Hansen is currently a better player than Moncada. That should tell you all you need to know.

Hahn should have stood firm with Boston and gotten Bentintendi instead of Moncada but a bad gm is a bad gm.

Can we just ban this guy?  He's ruining this board.