Where would you rank the White Sox roster in MLB?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Given that some find it funny to say the Sox roster is somewhere around 7-10 in baseball and not really "one of the best in the game" as I'd define it, where does everyone rank this current roster?

To give an idea on other teams.

Yankees
Rays
Blue Jays
Houston
Dodgers
Mets
Giants
Braves
Brewers

Are teams that are within a similar win total projection.

Teams outside that
Angels
Red Sox
Cardinals

Where would you rank this current roster? Still a decent amount of free agents out there so feel free to wait to vote if you'd like to see how things shake out a little more.

[Two-Gun Pete]

Man, I dunno. Velasquez really put this roster in a solid position.

[Jack Parkman]

If Correa goes back to the Astros

Jays 

Rays

Astros

Dodgers

Mets

Braves

I voted wrong

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[SoxAce]

Olson, Rosario, McHugh this offseason and they're still not done. I don't think we're better than the champion Braves. Jays, Dodgers are the only other teams I would definitely put ahead of us (We'll see what Correa does and I'll say Astros too if he goes back).

Yankees have taken a step back (so far) and the Mets will always be the Mets even though they have improved. 

The Rays are the biggest mystery to me. I don't know how they do it. I don't think their roster is that talented overall but they are always so good.

[CeaseAndExist]

30th

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

38 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Olson, Rosario, McHugh this offseason and they're still not done. I don't think we're better than the champion Braves. Jays, Dodgers are the only other teams I would definitely put ahead of us (We'll see what Correa does and I'll say Astros too if he goes back).

Yankees have taken a step back (so far) and the Mets will always be the Mets even though they have improved. 

The Rays are the biggest mystery to me. I don't know how they do it. I don't think their roster is that talented overall but they are always so good.

For what it's worth, the Yankees have by far the highest projected WAR as of today.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

What a beautiful normal distribution we have here.

[reiks12]

i voted 5-6, you cant ignore the bullpen upgrades and this offense as long as its healthy. I feel like the SP will be a weakness this season, they really ran out of gas last year

Edited March 16, 2022 by reiks12

[fathom]

1 minute ago, reiks12 said:

i voted 5-6, you cant ignore the bullpen upgrades and this offense as long as its healthy. I feel like the SP will be a weakness this season, they really ran out of gas last year

I’ve come around to thinking they need someone like Manaea more than Conforto

[joejoesox]

dunno, I'd say at least top 5 in the AL

but the issues I see every year with Sox teams that are supposed to be competitive, is lack of preparedness and poor discipline

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Fangraphs’ W-L projections have us tied for 9th, with three AL teams ahead of us (TOR, NYY, & HOU).  That being said, I think their individual player projections for us all ridiculously light in some areas and being the best team in the AL is in our range of outcomes.

[caulfield12]

15 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

For what it's worth, the Yankees have by far the highest projected WAR as of today.

Depends on which Severino they get back...

[FoxForce2]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Fangraphs’ W-L projections have us tied for 9th, with three AL teams ahead of us (TOR, NYY, & HOU).  That being said, I think their individual player projections for us all ridiculously light in some areas and being the best team in the AL is in our range of outcomes.

All teams have injury and multiple personnel problems through a season. Last year the Sox had more than a fair share. While algorithms are limited in accounting for unforeseen occurrences the Sigma would need to be even a tad broader when working the Sox formulae, considering this roster over a season anyway. Lotta variables on this team.

[hogan873]

14 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

What a beautiful normal distribution we have here.

Vilfredo Pareto would be proud.

[SpringfieldFan]

Wherever the roster itself stands on raw talent, you also have to apply a managerial correction factor.

[35thstreetswarm]

7 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Fangraphs’ W-L projections have us tied for 9th, with three AL teams ahead of us (TOR, NYY, & HOU).  That being said, I think their individual player projections for us all ridiculously light in some areas and being the best team in the AL is in our range of outcomes.

That tends to happen with teams whose key players are young and on upward trajectories.  That's what makes me most excited about this team -- green shoots everywhere, and multiple players who could realistically explode (in production - hopefully not literally, looking at you Eloy 👀 )

[Balta1701]

25 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

That tends to happen with teams whose key players are young and on upward trajectories.  That's what makes me most excited about this team -- green shoots everywhere, and multiple players who could realistically explode (in production - hopefully not literally, looking at you Eloy 👀 )

Right now the White Sox have the 7th oldest average roster in baseball. There are key young guys with room to grow, but they are surrounded by older veterans.

[Texsox]

After two starters go down and our weak ass system is exposed, we'll be bottom suckers.

[35thstreetswarm]

22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Right now the White Sox have the 7th oldest average roster in baseball. There are key young guys with room to grow, but they are surrounded by older veterans.

Yeah, the "average age" of a roster is pretty meaningless.  Our core players--Robert, Moncada, Jimenez, Anderson, Gio, Cease, Kopech, Vaughn, etc. -- are quite young.  

[Balta1701]

27 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Yeah, the "average age" of a roster is pretty meaningless.  Our core players--Robert, Moncada, Jimenez, Anderson, Gio, Cease, Kopech, Vaughn, etc. -- are quite young.  

No it really isn’t. The entire bullpen is pretty old. The bench is pretty old. There are guys like Abreu and Grandal in key roles in the lineup. 2/5 of the projected starters are in their mid 30s.

Moreover, these guys you listed aren’t that fresh any more. Moncada and Gio both got quick looks in 2016, so Moncada, Gio, Anderson - they’re about to play in their 7th big league seasons. Lopez his 6th. Eloy and Cease are about to start their 4th. Kopech made his debut 5 seasons ago. 3rd for Robert. While they’ve had odd journeys in many cases, this is a veteran lineup. It isn’t an old lineup, but it is not young.

[zisk]

19 hours ago, fathom said:

I’ve come around to thinking they need someone like Manaea more than Conforto

Or Montas

 

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No it really isn’t. The entire bullpen is pretty old. The bench is pretty old. There are guys like Abreu and Grandal in key roles in the lineup. 2/5 of the projected starters are in their mid 30s.

Moreover, these guys you listed aren’t that fresh any more. Moncada and Gio both got quick looks in 2016, so Moncada, Gio, Anderson - they’re about to play in their 7th big league seasons. Lopez his 6th. Eloy and Cease are about to start their 4th. Kopech made his debut 5 seasons ago. 3rd for Robert. While they’ve had odd journeys in many cases, this is a veteran lineup. It isn’t an old lineup, but it is not young.

They should be in their prime these two years…which is why the lack of finishing moves is driving everyone simply insane.  We’re more worried about not paying Conforto due to the uncertainty of how things will look in 2025 than winning right now, putting all our chips in.

From past experience, these shining moments in time usually are shorter than expected.

The Cubs really plateaued early in their window…but held on at the borderline of contention for five more years after 2015-16.  Royals only had their rapid ascent in 2013, two World Series and then injuries and age caught up in Year 4.

Astros remain the only team to really sustain things, other than the massive budget Dodgers.  The Braves are right there now, too, and the Blue Jays most obviously as well (heck, we might star fearing Seattle and Texas soon).

What really scares you the most is an injury to Robert, TA7 or one of the Big 3 pitchers plus Kopech.

[35thstreetswarm]

55 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No it really isn’t. The entire bullpen is pretty old. The bench is pretty old. There are guys like Abreu and Grandal in key roles in the lineup. 2/5 of the projected starters are in their mid 30s.

Moreover, these guys you listed aren’t that fresh any more. Moncada and Gio both got quick looks in 2016, so Moncada, Gio, Anderson - they’re about to play in their 7th big league seasons. Lopez his 6th. Eloy and Cease are about to start their 4th. Kopech made his debut 5 seasons ago. 3rd for Robert. While they’ve had odd journeys in many cases, this is a veteran lineup. It isn’t an old lineup, but it is not young.

White Sox core -- young but not "fresh"?  I have to say this drive to rain on each and every parade is getting increasingly obtuse. 

The "average" age is skewed upwards by a handful of key veteran additions who folks around here (rightly) demanded we get to supplement the young core.  Sure we could jettison Lynn, Hendriks, Kelly, Graveman and the like and shoot up the rankings like a bullet but I don't think folks would be too happy about that.  Kimbrel will soon be gone, a move that will probably move us a few slots on its own.  But the core players I named are young and there's really no way around it.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

White Sox core -- young but not "fresh"?  I have to say this drive to rain on each and every parade is getting increasingly obtuse. 

The "average" age is skewed upwards by a handful of key veteran additions who folks around here (rightly) demanded we get to supplement the young core.  Sure we could jettison Lynn, Hendriks, Kelly, Graveman and the like and shoot up the rankings like a bullet but I don't think folks would be too happy about that.  Kimbrel will soon be gone, a move that will probably move us a few slots on its own.  But the core players I named are young and there's really no way around it.

Saying that the roster is "not young" should not be raining on the parade. 

Look at this another way. The average age of all big leaguers last year was 27.1. Yoan Moncada turns 27 in May, he is basically an "average aged big leaguer". Tim Anderson turns 29 this year - Tim Anderson is 2 years older than the average big leaguer. Lucas Giolito, Zach Collins, Reynaldo lopez - they are older than average big leaguers. Dylan Cease turns 27 in December, he will be older than the average age next year. 

The White Sox have 4 position players (Vaughn, Sheets, Eloy, Robert) who are younger than the average big leaguer, 2 starters, 1 backup (Romy), and 1 reliever (Crochet). Only 8 players on their projected 26 man roster (ignoring suspension) are younger than average big leaguers.

This is a team that should be expected to be peaking literally right now, and there is enough age on this roster that you might think they could be an above-average-injury team. That's as far as you can take that. 

[MackowiakYakYak]

Average age in the league is not necessarily peak though. The league has a ton of “rebuilding” teams that are going to play a 25 year old over a statistically better 29+ year old.

A good amount of the baseball skillset isn’t closely tied to age in the same way they are in the other major sports. The aging curve does exist but regression isn’t expected until a player hits 30 and even then regression is expected to be a slow decline at first. Injuries are the obvious exception to this but that’s different than talking about primes.