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Mike Clevinger under investigation for domestic violence


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7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Bro, you don't fire the mail room guy if the CEO runs the company into the ground. The buck stops at the top.

My point is if there are people employed by the Sox to do background check type work and they gave Hahn the all-clear because there was no criminal investigation then what is Hahn supposed to do?

 

Again, I’m not saying there isn’t blame somewhere, but for people to act like Hahn purposely ignored these types of allegations is a bit crazy and only reactionary to past failures. 

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As someone who has been a target of false allegations - I’m not going to just assume what has been said is true.

Personally I’ve lived through fabricated “evidence”, manipulated witnesses, and have seen the fall out from it.

My guess though is that MLB does a better job investigating than the damned California Family Law Court System.

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4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Listening to him talk about Tatis makes me sick. f*** rooting for this guy. Just cut his ass and eat the contract.

Yes, great idea.  Let's reward this twat with the $12 million when its extremely likely he will lose a good chunk, if not all of it, and the team we all root for will get the $ back to invest elsewhere.

Brilliant idea, I tell ya.  That'll really show Clevinger! 

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19 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I keep seeing people say this here and even more on twitter, but beyond Clevinger just sort of having a rep for a being a bit of a dirtbag, how were the Sox supposed to know about this?

There is no police report.  Extremely likely that even if they pulled a detailed background check, nothing about this would have come up.  The MLB doesn't report to local police departments.  The league is quite literally bound by confidentiality on issues like this prior to the player having their day in court and they cannot essentially blackball a guy from the league for allegations.  I understand why folks have a hard time wrapping their head around that, but that is quite literally what the legal document says.  Go look at @Y2Jimmytwitter page.  Are you expecting someone in the MLB offices to break those rules and call up the Sox when the caught wind of the signing?  I mean, that is literally what people are insinuating should have happened.  That would open up the MLB to all sorts of risk.    

Now, I can get people saying that Clevinger has always appeared to be a dirt bag and just steering clear of that type of character in general.  I don't necessarily agree with that because I think alot of professional athletes are dirtbags and you're just putting yourself at a competitive disadvantage by avoiding all adulterous athletes, but I can at least see it.  But to insinuate the Sox knew about this is advance, lied about it in their released statement, and just chose to sign this guy anyway is beyond silly.  

 

I hate what Hahn has done to this organization in terms of player personnel moves as much as the next, but at this point I’m expecting this board to start blaming him for inflation, the war in Ukraine, and any/all world problems. 
 

The idea that Hahn was so infatuated with a back end of the rotation SP like Clevinger that he willingly chose to ignore these types of allegations is bordering on tinfoil hat type conspiracy. It just doesn’t make sense 

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29 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I keep seeing people say this here and even more on twitter, but beyond Clevinger just sort of having a rep for a being a bit of a dirtbag, how were the Sox supposed to know about this?

There is no police report.  Extremely likely that even if they pulled a detailed background check, nothing about this would have come up.  The MLB doesn't report to local police departments.  The league is quite literally bound by confidentiality on issues like this prior to the player having their day in court and they cannot essentially blackball a guy from the league for allegations.  I understand why folks have a hard time wrapping their head around that, but that is quite literally what the legal document says.  Go look at @Y2Jimmytwitter page.  Are you expecting someone in the MLB offices to break those rules and call up the Sox when the caught wind of the signing?  I mean, that is literally what people are insinuating should have happened.  That would open up the MLB to all sorts of risk.    

Now, I can get people saying that Clevinger has always appeared to be a dirt bag and just steering clear of that type of character in general.  I don't necessarily agree with that because I think alot of professional athletes are dirtbags and you're just putting yourself at a competitive disadvantage by avoiding all adulterous athletes, but I can at least see it.  But to insinuate the Sox knew about this is advance, lied about it in their released statement, and just chose to sign this guy anyway is beyond silly.  

 

Everyone I've heard on the Score this morning suggested that some of these social media posts have been out there since before the Sox signed Clevinger, and that a cursory google search could have indicated many red flags. I haven't vetted that for myself, but if that's true - it's inexcusable for them not to have done a cursory fucking google search in this day and age.  

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16 minutes ago, hi8is said:

As someone who has been a target of false allegations - I’m not going to just assume what has been said is true.

Personally I’ve lived through fabricated “evidence”, manipulated witnesses, and have seen the fall out from it.

My guess though is that MLB does a better job investigating than the damned California Family Law Court System.

Good man.

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10 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Everyone I've heard on the Score this morning suggested that some of these social media posts have been out there since before the Sox signed Clevinger, and that a cursory google search could have indicated many red flags. I haven't vetted that for myself, but if that's true - it's inexcusable for them not to have done a cursory fucking google search in this day and age.  

Took me all of 5 minutes yesterday to find enough questionable material to make this signing egregious on its face. Let the investigation play out so as not to be a pitch fork mob. But all indications are this is a bad dude.

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18 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Everyone I've heard on the Score this morning suggested that some of these social media posts have been out there since before the Sox signed Clevinger, and that a cursory google search could have indicated many red flags. I haven't vetted that for myself, but if that's true - it's inexcusable for them not to have done a cursory fucking google search in this day and age.  

Time to clean house in the FO. One of the Reinsdorf kids might want to talk to their Dad.

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33 minutes ago, hi8is said:

As someone who has been a target of false allegations - I’m not going to just assume what has been said is true.

Personally I’ve lived through fabricated “evidence”, manipulated witnesses, and have seen the fall out from it.

My guess though is that MLB does a better job investigating than the damned California Family Law Court System.

Buddy of mine is dealing with the same thing. It's remarkable how awful his ex-wife is.

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31 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

My point is if there are people employed by the Sox to do background check type work and they gave Hahn the all-clear because there was no criminal investigation then what is Hahn supposed to do?

 

Again, I’m not saying there isn’t blame somewhere, but for people to act like Hahn purposely ignored these types of allegations is a bit crazy and only reactionary to past failures. 

Look, we KNOW the Sox history here.  They HAVE actively hired and employed people with active investigations and charges going on.  We KNOW the Sox have kept that information to themselves until which time they couldn't hide it anymore.  We KNOW they employ people with extremely questionable histories and backgrounds. We know the Sox and the front office are currently the target of as discrimination lawsuit.  We also know that we don't always get the whole truth in the moment from this organization.

I am not going to pretend to know what effort this franchise made, and what knowledge level they really had here, but I am also not going to begrudge anyone who doesn't give the Sox the benefit of the doubt here because they sure as hell haven't earned that right.

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55 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yes, great idea.  Let's reward this twat with the $12 million when its extremely likely he will lose a good chunk, if not all of it, and the team we all root for will get the $ back to invest elsewhere.

Brilliant idea, I tell ya.  That'll really show Clevinger! 

He’s almost certainly going to get paid his contract one way or another. This franchise will have a black cloud over them and he will be a huge distraction until he’s off the roster.

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4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He’s almost certainly going to get paid his contract one way or another. This franchise will have a black cloud over them and he will be a huge distraction until he’s off the roster.

No, it's gonna last longer. Because now, unless all five starting pitchers (roulette for whoever #5 is) are lights out all year, there will be people going "Katz would have figured out Clevinger and reverted him back to Cleveland form!"

Unless he remains on the roster in which case that's just gonna be the story all year.

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Speaking of domestic violence, child abuse and employment vetting,  Dan Bernstein and Laurence Holmes stated that they were told offline that Vizquel “would never be named manager of the White Sox” (DB) and “you do not want to be associated with Omar Vizquel” (LH).

This is presumably before he was let go by the team, and the domestic violence investigation followed by the child abuse lawsuit were made public.

They said if they if they have better sources than the team OR that if the team also knew about Vizquel and did not care, your organization is trash.

 

0*XUqoVTLGQsYacXs_
 

Step aside Ribbie and Rhubarb.

 

Edited by South Side Hit Men
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I don’t care how this ends up. I want this to be English Law, not American Law. In Great Britain you are guilty until proven innocent. And there’s no chance in hell he’s going to found innocent. As I said before, “ HE GONE”. Get rid of him, stretch out Martin or whoever the next man up in AA or AAA is next up. Stiever, Martin, Avila, whoever. Because of Hendriks out it makes Lopez a defacto closer I belive at this time with Graveman. I don’t see a trade for a starter who’s available and they’re going to bleed us for a good one. Hope Kopech is on schedule for opening day. 

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1 hour ago, hi8is said:

As someone who has been a target of false allegations - I’m not going to just assume what has been said is true.

Personally I’ve lived through fabricated “evidence”, manipulated witnesses, and have seen the fall out from it.

My guess though is that MLB does a better job investigating than the damned California Family Law Court System.

Sorry you've had to go through that. I've also had to go through something similar with my kids' mother. I was pretty fortunate that my attorney was able to cut through the b.s. when it came to a custody battle. Even then, it was a struggle to get 50/50. Not picking a side with the Clevenger situation, but if it comes out to being true, especially with the child abuse, I hope to never see him in a baseball uniform again. 

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18 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Once again Jim Margalus of Sox Machine with a sane, sober look at this situation and the ramifications and possible outcomes:

https://soxmachine.com/2023/01/best-case-scenario-for-mike-clevinger-white-sox-doesnt-exist/

 

I got this tweet from that article. Note that the tweet was from his time being run out of Cleveland. 

 

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45 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He’s almost certainly going to get paid his contract one way or another. This franchise will have a black cloud over them and he will be a huge distraction until he’s off the roster.

I....disagree on the $ part.  Trevor Bauer didn't get paid a dime while he was on administrative leave.  If MLB places Clevinger on administrative leave while they determine his suspension, and then he is ultimately suspended he almost certainly will not get paid his entire contract.

Only way he's getting paid the entire contract is if it turns out this situation was largely exaggerated by a jilted ex and Clevinger is cleared. I don't see that happening.  

Releasing him now guarantees him the $.  That would be a stupid decision regardless of if the Sox intend for him to ever suit up for them.  If he's never part of the clubhouse - which he certainly will not be if he's suspended or on administrative leave - not sure how it can be much of distraction to the team.    

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4 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It was right there in front of him!  He chose that s%*# turd over a guy that was great for them.  Great on the mound and great in the clubhouse.  It's truly remarkable how bad Hahn is at his job.  He has absolutely no feel for the game of baseball.  He should be a contract negotiator or a lobbyist or something but for gods sake quit pretending you're a GM.  

The biggest issue is still that they had $8 million to spend on a starting pitcher so that they could also sign an outfielder. When you are forced to bargain bin hunt so the owners grand kids don't miss a meal, sometimes you end up signing turds. 

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7 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I....disagree on the $ part.  Trevor Bauer didn't get paid a dime while he was on administrative leave.  If MLB places Clevinger on administrative leave while they determine his suspension, and then he is ultimately suspended he almost certainly will not get paid his entire contract.

Only way he's getting paid the entire contract is if it turns out this situation was largely exaggerated by a jilted ex and Clevinger is cleared. I don't see that happening.  

Releasing him now guarantees him the $.  That would be a stupid decision regardless of if the Sox intend for him to ever suit up for them.  If he's never part of the clubhouse - which he certainly will not be if he's suspended or on administrative leave - not sure how it can be much of distraction to the team.    

I looked at this yesterday - they actually were supposed to have paid him for the administrative leave, but this changed when the Arbitrator ruled against the league. Administrative leave means he still gets paid, suspension no pay. When the arbitrator ruled, they decided to count the long administrative leave as part of his suspension, which meant no money during the administrative leave, but his contract resumed from the point the suspension ended. This is a unique case since it's the only MLB domestic violence suspension that went to an arbitrator. 

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I don't get being down on Davis Martin except for injury, which is understandable. His slider showed real promise as a put-out pitch. If his velocity breakout from last year is maintained, I think he's a good piece to have.

Sean Burke better be getting ready though. Not much else.

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