2023-24 NFL Season Thread

[chw42]

Just now, WhiteSox2023 said:

If Caleb ends up being a bust, the Bears are flat out cursed.

He's got the talent. If you can just get him to take the easier throws and maybe not play hero ball, he should be the best QB in franchise history. 

His problems are not the same as Fields'. Fields has poor pocket awareness and a very slow release. Add this on top of his inability to anticipate throws and he ends up with a 12% career sack rate.

Caleb has elite pocket awareness, a quick release, and an incredible arm. He also has issues with throwing with anticipation, but I think the hope is that his elite ability to buy time and his pocket awareness will help offset those issues until he gets more acclimated to pre-snap reads. Add having elite route runners for his top 2 WRs and he should see a lot more open receivers. His other knocks, like being too loose with the ball, not taking easier throws to play hero ball, and not playing in structure can hopefully be ironed out by coaching. I think it should be noted that after the ND game, he played more in-structure. 

I think with Justin his combination of slow release, poor pocket awareness, and inexperience reading defenses are a terrible combo to have as a passer. He'd need to improve 2 out of 3 to become a good NFL QB. With Williams, you already have 2 of those 3. Not getting the third will limit his ceiling though. 

[Texsox]

https://www.si.com/nfl/2024/03/17/justin-fields-rejected-four-trade-destinations-bears-deal-steelers?utm_medium=push_notifications&utm_source=pushly&utm_campaign=4392705

So apparently the Bears were trying to "do right" and find a spot that Fields wanted to go. If it was the difference between a 3rd and 6th round pick, I'm fine with that. 

[chw42]

3 minutes ago, Texsox said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2024/03/17/justin-fields-rejected-four-trade-destinations-bears-deal-steelers?utm_medium=push_notifications&utm_source=pushly&utm_campaign=4392705

So apparently the Bears were trying to "do right" and find a spot that Fields wanted to go. If it was the difference between a 3rd and 6th round pick, I'm fine with that. 

I doubt anyone offered a 3rd if he got traded for a 2025 6th. Maybe a 4th or 5th. 

[WhiteSox2023]

5 minutes ago, Texsox said:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2024/03/17/justin-fields-rejected-four-trade-destinations-bears-deal-steelers?utm_medium=push_notifications&utm_source=pushly&utm_campaign=4392705

So apparently the Bears were trying to "do right" and find a spot that Fields wanted to go. If it was the difference between a 3rd and 6th round pick, I'm fine with that. 

I don’t understand this mentality.  The Bears gave Fields 40 games to prove he was a starting QB.  Isn’t that enough?  Some guys are just backups (see Trubisky).  Poles is a moron if he intentionally took less of a return and hurt his own team just to pick a better landing spot for Fields.

[Texsox]

3 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I doubt anyone offered a 3rd if he got traded for a 2025 6th. Maybe a 4th or 5th. 

Quote

 

Apparently, there was no shortage of interest in the 25-year-old signal-caller, with at least four other teams having inquired with the Bears about a potential Fields trade. However, Fields’s representatives preferred that the QB not be sent to any of those teams and told Chicago he wanted to join the Steelers, according to Ian Rapoport of the NFL Network. 

The Bears and GM Ryan Poles did right by the former No. 11 pick, sending him to his preferred destination instead of shipping him elsewhere for maximum value. The report did not indicate which other teams were interested in Fields, nor the offers Chicago received.

 

I tend to think you are correct, but if we believe this report, there was some "competition" for him. 

[chw42]

1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I don’t understand this mentality.  The Bears gave Fields 40 games to prove he was a starting QB.  Isn’t that enough?  Some guys are just backups (see Trubisky).  Poles is a moron if he intentionally took less of a return and hurt his own team just to pick a better landing spot for Fields.

If somebody really offered a 3rd and the Bears settled for a 6th, then the players' tweets saying "it's just business" would make no sense. 

[southsider2k5]

He GoT pLaYeD

 

[Texsox]

2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I don’t understand this mentality.  The Bears gave Fields 40 games to prove he was a starting QB.  Isn’t that enough?  Some guys are just backups (see Trubisky).  Poles is a moron if he intentionally took less of a return and hurt his own team just to pick a better landing spot for Fields.

Would you trade him within your division? 

[chw42]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

He GoT pLaYeD

 

I mean, if they really were offered much better deals and Fields' team said no, then I'd say he got played by David Mulugheta. 

But I doubt that was really the case. Maybe they were offered slightly better and they decided that sending him to where he wanted to go would make good PR for the team. 

[Texsox]

1 minute ago, chw42 said:

I mean, if they really were offered much better deals and Fields' team said no, then I'd say he got played by David Mulugheta. 

But I doubt that was really the case. Maybe they were offered slightly better and they decided that sending him to where he wanted to go would make good PR for the team. 

Plus if he jumped at the first team offering a 4th fans would have thought they could have gotten a 2nd. So he held out hoping the market would improve. Worst case he's your backup.

[WhiteSox2023]

5 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Would you trade him within your division? 

Sure.  The Bears shouldn’t be afraid of a backup QB.

[baseball_gal_aly]

8 hours ago, bmags said:

I know the packers are an opposite end here but I see this

 

and I think to myself the idea that the great QBs were “developed” is extremely overrated.

Feels more like 60% luck, 30% scouting and 10% development.

I think you take the risk on a fields because the arm, accuracy when set and athleticism is worth seeing if he could improve his processing and sack avoidance.

It didn’t work out. And while he could have had better stats in other orgs, I’m honestly not sure the degree better, certainly not to a top 15 QB imo.

And Lawrence is teetering on massive bust territory as well. 

If Caleb ends up being a bust, I give up. 

Edited March 17 by baseball_gal_aly

[bmags]

1 hour ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

And Lawrence is teetering on massive bust territory as well. 

If Caleb ends up being a bust, I give up. 

Lawrence is in no way a massive bust. He still threw for 4,000 yards. He’s a definite long term starter but they definitely suffered without Kirk. Ridley had way too many drops. Fully expect him back to 2022 self next year.

[chw42]

35 minutes ago, bmags said:

Lawrence is in no way a massive bust. He still threw for 4,000 yards. He’s a definite long term starter but they definitely suffered without Kirk. Ridley had way too many drops. Fully expect him back to 2022 self next year.

I think there's a 3 minute reel of Jaguars receivers dropping Lawrence TD passes last year. He played way better than his TD numbers last year. His ankle getting hurt also did him no favors. 

[Jerksticks]

This roster is full of dudes ready to ball out and try to win. 
 

So optics wise, if they draft Caleb, you have to consider not only Caleb’s development, shot at OROY etc…but you have to do right by that locker room.  
 

I think there’s a lot to consider about who starts the season as QB1.  Do you just hand it to Caleb and take the lumps?

 

I think at this point it’s Bagent.   Caleb would have to outplay him pretty significantly to get the buy in from everybody right?  That’s not a given.  

Edited March 18 by Jerksticks

[Tony]

13 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

This roster is full of dudes ready to ball out and try to win. 
 

So optics wise, if they draft Caleb, you have to consider not only Caleb’s development, shot at OROY etc…but you have to do right by that locker room.  
 

I think there’s a lot to consider about who starts the season as QB1.  Do you just hand it to Caleb and take the lumps?

 

I think at this point it’s Bagent.   Caleb would have to outplay him pretty significantly to get the buy in from everybody right?  That’s not a given.  

This is dumb bit 

[caulfield12]

12 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

This roster is full of dudes ready to ball out and try to win. 
 

So optics wise, if they draft Caleb, you have to consider not only Caleb’s development, shot at OROY etc…but you have to do right by that locker room.  
 

I think there’s a lot to consider about who starts the season as QB1.  Do you just hand it to Caleb and take the lumps?

 

I think at this point it’s Bagent.   Caleb would have to outplay him pretty significantly to get the buy in from everybody right?  That’s not a given.  

But you also know Bagent is going to put them in a 1-3 or 2-4 hole to start off the season.

Unless he has problems with picking up the offense, Williams will be the starter from Day 1.  That is just who he has always been...unquestionably, THE MAN ever since high school in MD.

[Balta1701]

31 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

This roster is full of dudes ready to ball out and try to win. 
 

So optics wise, if they draft Caleb, you have to consider not only Caleb’s development, shot at OROY etc…but you have to do right by that locker room.  
 

I think there’s a lot to consider about who starts the season as QB1.  Do you just hand it to Caleb and take the lumps?

 

I think at this point it’s Bagent.   Caleb would have to outplay him pretty significantly to get the buy in from everybody right?  That’s not a given.  

Caleb Williams will be starting for the Bears in the fall unless either the Bears draft a different QB or something tragic happens. 

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

This roster is full of dudes ready to ball out and try to win. 
 

So optics wise, if they draft Caleb, you have to consider not only Caleb’s development, shot at OROY etc…but you have to do right by that locker room.  
 

I think there’s a lot to consider about who starts the season as QB1.  Do you just hand it to Caleb and take the lumps?

 

I think at this point it’s Bagent.   Caleb would have to outplay him pretty significantly to get the buy in from everybody right?  That’s not a given.  

Is this a serious post or just a troll job?  No team would choose to start an undrafted free agent signing over the 1-1 QB in a draft.

 

[WhiteSox2023]

Bears surely could have gotten the same deal, or a better one, for Justin Fields later

[LittleHurtCG]

14 hours ago, chw42 said:

I mean, if they really were offered much better deals and Fields' team said no, then I'd say he got played by David Mulugheta. 

But I doubt that was really the case. Maybe they were offered slightly better and they decided that sending him to where he wanted to go would make good PR for the team. 

We had Adam Schelcter and others in the know tweeting back in February that Justin Fields would be a hot commodity and would bring back some nice vaule for the Bears in a trade. A first round pick seemed like a pipedream, but most thought it would be between a second and a third round pick in this years draft. 

The Bears ended up with a 6th round pick in the 2025 draft lol. Seems like someone got played here. Also, the Bears dumped this news on Saturday night of St. Patricks day weekend for a reason. 

[Harry Chappas]

1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

We had Adam Schelcter and others in the know tweeting back in February that Justin Fields would be a hot commodity and would bring back some nice vaule for the Bears in a trade. A first round pick seemed like a pipedream, but most thought it would be between a second and a third round pick in this years draft. 

The Bears ended up with a 6th round pick in the 2025 draft lol. Seems like someone got played here. Also, the Bears dumped this news on Saturday night of St. Patricks day weekend for a reason. 

I think when teams evaluated Fields in depth his stock fell.  I think it proved what was seen in college.  

[southsider2k5]

The Caleb Williams experience is going to be amazing.  If nothing else, I can't recall a more polarizing #1 draft pick.  People are really convinced that he is either a generational QB or he is a mental case and the next Ryan Leaf waiting to happen, and there seems to be no middle ground to be had.  I truly cannot think of a dude that has been more divisive at this stage.

[Tony]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Caleb Williams experience is going to be amazing.  If nothing else, I can't recall a more polarizing #1 draft pick.  People are really convinced that he is either a generational QB or he is a mental case and the next Ryan Leaf waiting to happen, and there seems to be no middle ground to be had.  I truly cannot think of a dude that has been more divisive at this stage.

I feel like a lot of those concerns aren't based nationally, but more Chicago-based from the Fields cult. 

 

[southsider2k5]

14 minutes ago, Tony said:

I feel like a lot of those concerns aren't based nationally, but more Chicago-based from the Fields cult. 

 

I mean if you have any belief in Williams at all, you draft him and start him every single time.  If nothing else, recapturing a rookie QB scale against the salary cap for another 4 years versus Fields turns this into Williams plus tens of millions of dollars per year in cap space and who can be plugged in there just to start with.  Is Williams plus say a $20 million a year player better than Fields?  I can't see a scenario where the answer is no.