This team is going to lose 90 plus games...

[Tnetennba]

11 hours ago, ScootsMcGoots said:

So at what point does this FO apologize to the fan base for completely fucking up this rebuild?

They would have to give a s%*# first.  I think we all know that they don’t. 

[Tnetennba]

6 hours ago, Chimpton said:

Is that the new Front Office slogan for this season?

Your 2023 Chicago White Sox: Closer to Last Place than to First. 

[The Kids Can Play]

7 hours ago, Chimpton said:

When does the fire sale start?

Whenever it starts, it better not include Rick Hahn handling another rebuild. 

[joejoesox]

28 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

Whenever it starts, it better not include Rick Hahn handling another rebuild. 

again, Rick just needs to trade for consensus top prospects. that isnt hard to do so long as there are offers.  but as far as the rest of the rebuild (coaching, scouts, technology, minor league development, he cannot be allowed to handle any of that s%*#

trading for prospects is the easy part, developing them into above average MLB players is gonna be tough until they blow it up and bring in people who have a track record

[Flash Tizzle]

The season isn’t mathematically over, but it’s over. Same team, same issues; it’s not worth investing time and money into this season. I’m done hoping for things to work themselves out with these players. 

I don’t really believe rooting for them to lose helps either, unless that path is the one most likely to lead to Hahn’s firing. Which is, what maybe a 10% chance of happening? 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Flash Tizzle

[The Kids Can Play]

4 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

again, Rick just needs to trade for consensus top prospects. that isnt hard to do so long as there are offers.  but as far as the rest of the rebuild (coaching, scouts, technology, minor league development, he cannot be allowed to handle any of that s%*#

trading for prospects is the easy part, developing them into above average MLB players is gonna be tough until they blow it up and bring in people who have a track record

I agree with you in theory that it shouldn't be that hard selecting top consensus prospects. However this is exactly one of Rick Hahn's weaknesses. I think he has failed in drafting top prospects and other than the Quintana trade, has failed badly in trades to get the top prospects. That is why I would rather take a pass on Hahn having anything to do in the next rebuild. 

[caulfield12]

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=0&type=1&season=2022&month=0&season1=2022&ind=0&team=0,ts&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2022-01-01&enddate=2022-12-31&sort=11,d

 

Last year the White Sox were 27th in team DRS. 

This year 24th so far.  Slight improvement. 

But the Twins are now #5 and the Guardians are even worse than the Sox at 27th somehow. 

Massive shift in early going. 

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, Flash Tizzle said:

The season isn’t mathematically over, but it’s over. Same team, same issues; it’s not worth investing time and money into this season. I’m done hoping for things to work themselves out with these players. 

I don’t really believe rooting for them to lose helps either, unless that path is the one most likely to lead to Hahn’s firing. Which is, what maybe a 10% chance of happening? 

Sox fans are in a hell of a position aren't they? Knowing this bunch of stiffs and clowns aren't going to win, having to hope a disastrous season leads to massive changes...but knowing even under those conditions change isn't likely at all.

[tray]

3 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Sox fans are in a hell of a position aren't they? Knowing this bunch of stiffs and clowns aren't going to win, having to hope a disastrous season leads to massive changes...but knowing even under those conditions change isn't likely at all.

At some point "the hell of a position" might be to  simply move on and seek a more fruitful pastime. Baseball isn't the end of the world. It's just a game. I have only watched two games since the Opener and will increasingly look for other more productive ways to spend my time. We already know the Sox are what we thought they would be...mired in mediocrity. Why spend any more of your time watching this and complaining about it? It is what it is.

[tray]

4 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Your 2023 Chicago White Sox: Closer to Last Place than to First. 

Not surprised if the Sox are 10 or more games out in the next few weeks. The writing is on the wall. I feel bad but nothing we can do so I'll take up some projects to consume my spare time instead of watching close losses with all too predictable  bullpen meltdowns. The only games the Sox  win will be occasional blowouts.

[Lip Man 1]

5 minutes ago, tray said:

At some point "the hell of a position" might be to  simply move on and seek a more fruitful pastime. Baseball isn't the end of the world. It's just a game. I have only watched two games since the Opener and will increasingly look for other more productive ways to spend my time. We already know the Sox are what we thought they would be...mired in mediocrity. Why spend any more of your time watching this and complaining about it? It is what it is.

Fans is short for fanatics for a reason. I've been a fan for 63 years (I'm 67) born and raised on the South Side. I'm also loyal to the team that going back to very early in my childhood has been a big part of my memory.

That being said I find myself drifting more to what you are suggesting (which personally is very unnerving to me) I want to take pride in the Sox, to enjoy a baseball summer and this incompetent, dysfunctional and inept organization keeps ruining that not only for me but for a lot of other good Sox fans.

Like I said it's a hell of a position to be in. 

[Hawkfan]

Maybe if we didn't have an alcoholic as a head coach. #firelarussa 

Kidding aside, my expectations have been very high the last 2 years and I'm trending towards a Harry Doyle like decline.

 

Cheers

[Capn12]

I'm putting it at 70-92, this season.

[Tnetennba]

52 minutes ago, Capn12 said:

I'm putting it at 70-92, this season.

At this rate 70 wins seems like a stretch

[The Grinder]

On 4/15/2023 at 12:05 PM, Lip Man 1 said:

Sox fans are in a hell of a position aren't they? Knowing this bunch of stiffs and clowns aren't going to win, having to hope a disastrous season leads to massive changes...but knowing even under those conditions change isn't likely at all.

Pretty much a catch 22 

[caulfield12]

13,794 was the attendance yesterday/this morning in China.

Despite ALL the disasters of the past two years, the Sox fans are/were still supporting the team, because they've got a respectable number of season ticket holders sadomasochistic-ally hanging in there.

Well over 32,000 when the weather was beautiful on Saturday.

Actually 17th in MLB attendance, the top of the lower "tier" between the successful and largely unsuccessful teams at the gate.

 

But it would be shocking if they didn't settle somewhere in between 22-26 by the end of the season if these trends from the first two weeks all continue...especially with the brutal schedule and unpredictable April/May weather.

Edited April 17, 2023 by caulfield12

[Vote4Pedro]

On 4/15/2023 at 9:37 AM, joejoesox said:

again, Rick just needs to trade for consensus top prospects. that isnt hard to do so long as there are offers.  but as far as the rest of the rebuild (coaching, scouts, technology, minor league development, he cannot be allowed to handle any of that s%*#

trading for prospects is the easy part, developing them into above average MLB players is gonna be tough until they blow it up and bring in people who have a track record

He already was allowed to trade for a consensus top draft pick in Moncada. His talent evaluation has pretty much been crap. I would not give him the keys to another rebuild/retool or anything for that matter.

[joejoesox]

5 hours ago, Vote4Pedro said:

He already was allowed to trade for a consensus top draft pick in Moncada. His talent evaluation has pretty much been crap. I would not give him the keys to another rebuild/retool or anything for that matter.

Moncada was a top 5 prospect in all of baseball, that wasn't necessarily a failure on Hahn

[caulfield12]

32 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

Moncada was a top 5 prospect in all of baseball, that wasn't necessarily a failure on Hahn

Are all those scouts, evaluators, cross checkers and baseball writers paid more to make assessments than MLB general managers? 

If you just went by rankings compilations and aggregators, what could Hahn do that ChatGP4 can't do even better? 

[Dick Allen]

I am as frustrated as anyone, but we all know even in the best of times, the Sox go through a 16 game stretch where they lose 10 games. Of course, starting the season that way doesn't give much hope it's going to get dramatically better. Defense and the bullpen are killing this team.

[Bob Sacamano]

On 4/14/2023 at 9:12 PM, ScootsMcGoots said:

So at what point does this FO apologize to the fan base for completely fucking up this rebuild?

That would mean they are accountable which we all know no one is in this organization.

[Dick Allen]

23 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

That would mean they are accountable which we all know no one is in this organization.

It's the fans fault. I always thought people saying the Sox hate their fans was a bit over the top, but I've been coming around to believing that it's true more and more everyday.

[joejoesox]

On 4/15/2023 at 9:48 AM, The Kids Can Play said:

I agree with you in theory that it shouldn't be that hard selecting top consensus prospects. However this is exactly one of Rick Hahn's weaknesses. I think he has failed in drafting top prospects and other than the Quintana trade, has failed badly in trades to get the top prospects. That is why I would rather take a pass on Hahn having anything to do in the next rebuild. 

his weakness isn't picking consensus top prospects, just look at any prospect list and throw a dart or pick the highest ranked guys that fill a need based on position

his weakness is developing them because we don't have adequate coaches and systems in place on the farm

I don't have any issues with wanting Hahn as far away as possible from another reboot, I'm just saying the easiest part of said reboot/rebuild is selecting the highest ranked prospects for whoever you're trading

If you're asking me to choose between (assuming Hahn/KW is gonna be in charge) 

Keep the same core and try this same experiment again until their contracts are up

or

blow it up

I'm 100% on the blow it up side

[caulfield12]

12 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

his weakness isn't picking consensus top prospects, just look at any prospect list and throw a dart or pick the highest ranked guys that fill a need based on position

his weakness is developing them because we don't have adequate coaches and systems in place on the farm

I don't have any issues with wanting Hahn as far away as possible from another reboot, I'm just saying the easiest part of said reboot/rebuild is selecting the highest ranked prospects for whoever you're trading

If you're asking me to choose between (assuming Hahn/KW is gonna be in charge) 

Keep the same core and try this same experiment again until their contracts are up

or

blow it up

I'm 100% on the blow it up side

As soon. as you lose Giolito Lynn Anderson Clevinger Grandal and most of the bullpen, how does it make sense to keep running Jimenez Moncada Vaughn Robert out there without making any changes since you're not winning anything anyway...and that's kind of the default Hahn argument, we have to wait until they're all healthy and playing together for an extended period before we can make my adjustments. 

[LittleHurtCG]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

It's the fans fault. I always thought people saying the Sox hate their fans was a bit over the top, but I've been coming around to believing that it's true more and more everyday.

The organization canceled Sox Fest this year. Thye both hate and are afraid of their fanbase it appears. What for profit business cancels an event where thousands of people want to pay thousands of dollars to gather at an event that is soley about your product?