CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 32 minutes ago, ptatc said: More teams in the bidding the less likely that the Orioles make the trade if Elias sticks to his pre-market valuation of Cease. And just to make it clear it's not Elias's pre-market evaluation of Cease. It's his perceived pre-market evaluation of Cease seen through the eyes of the vocal fans choosing to post here. I think it's safe to say Elias is not on film anywhere since the World Series ended talking about how he anticipates Dylan Cease's market to go or how he'll get the pitching most assume he should get. Like any good poker player his cards are still guarded closely and he's still in the game. If it gets too rich for him he can fold . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, WhiteSox2023 said: Also, his main point has always been that Elias has an idea of what Cease should cost in terms of prospects and won’t deviate from “his” price. But not all GMs function this way and WILL up the ante to obtain a player they want, especially if there is competition for said player. I have never once did that Elias has an idea of what Cease should cost. Literally never once have I said that but you haven’t been honest about anything else I have said, so why would you start now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 9 minutes ago, fathom said: The good news is that I think whatever fan base gets Cease, they’re seemingly going to be pissed off at the cost. At this point, I hope the best offer comes from a non-Orioles AL East team, and that team beats the Orioles brains in. 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: I have never once did that Elias has an idea of what Cease should cost. Literally never once have I said that but you haven’t been honest about anything else I have said, so why would you start now? So is Mayo being untouchable your idea or are you mind-melding with Elias? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: And just to make it clear it's not Elias's pre-market evaluation of Cease. It's his perceived pre-market evaluation of Cease seen through the eyes of the vocal fans choosing to post here. I think it's safe to say Elias is not on film anywhere since the World Series ended talking about how he anticipates Dylan Cease's market to go or how he'll get the pitching most assume he should get. Like any good poker player his cards are still guarded closely and he's still in the game. If it gets too rich for him he can fold . True. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, WhiteSox2023 said: So is Mayo being untouchable your idea or are you mind-melding with Elias? I have already explained this. I know the words that are actually said fly over your head and you choose to put down whatever mush you choose but the question has been answered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 7 minutes ago, DirtySox said: I loved him at draft. Mainly because of the aesthetic. I think White Sox fans would adore him. Big Pedroia vibes. Nice. Feel like we haven't had that in a while. Robert is good obviously but they could launch anyone else on the team and most wouldn't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 49 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Sure seems like Getz waiting is starting to pay off with all this latest interest. Also, it sure doesn’t seem like teams want to overpay Snell and Montgomery. Yup, this the reality teams with money and a need for a TOR starter face. You can spend $200M+ on Snell, $175M or so on Montgomery, or trade premium prospects for two years of Cease and likely a comp pick at the end. Those first two options are probably not very appetizing. And for teams without cash, it’s Cease or hope you can convince the Marlins to give up Luzardo (which sounds like it will be very challenging). Getz is is incredible spot…but he shouldn’t wait on Boras to find homes for Snell & Montgomery. IMO, now is the time to force teams to put their offers on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Only 1,700 more replies or so and this will be the biggest thread in the history of this forum. We can definitely get there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: I have never once did that Elias has an idea of what Cease should cost. Literally never once have I said that but you haven’t been honest about anything else I have said, so why would you start now? Yes you have. You stated that he has a valuation of players and what they are worth and he won't change that. That's one thing you like about him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox72 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 20 minutes ago, WestEddy said: I've been in Real Estate, and if you know you're getting multiple offers, you inform everybody that there will be multiple offers, and you hand them back, and tell them to come back with their best, most serious offer, then you pick the best situation. Dude who thinks he's going to low-ball, then spend 3 weeks back and forth may get serious. I can't imagine that Getz has fallen in love with one prospect on one team, and will keep going back to try to get them to up their offer. 18 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Exactly. Thanks. I don’t get what is so tough to understand. He’s acting like teams only ever have “a final offer”. His house buying analogy is absolutely terrible. 18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: I’m in RE too..and you are correct. My point is that you are at your best and final type stage…in that scenario, you aren’t considering the other 8. You are considering 2. And the point is, just because those other 8 are involved, that doesn’t mean the other 2 are worried about them or that the other 2 are increasing their offer because of those 8. Hell, they don’t even know those 8 exist in some cases. 16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: When you aren’t even in the vicinity of other offers, you really aren’t a serious buyer. 13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: I have bought 3 and sold about 45. I think this is a good time for me to point out that I am a real estate attorney and if you have any needs in that area, please reach out. 1 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: Only 1,700 more replies or so and this will be the biggest thread in the history of this forum. We can definitely get there. I think you are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 34 minutes ago, fathom said: Why are you so sure they’re not putting Mayo or Basallo in a deal? Uh oh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Rey21 said: Kjerstad, one of Ortiz/Norby, and Povich - No less (I do think Cowser is less) My price from the O's has increased to Kjerstad, Ortiz, Beavers and Povich due to their p****footing. A Kjerstad, Norby and Povich package would concern me. Both the headliners have serious poor OF/1B risk. We've been down the road so many times. I am willing to take the risk on Kjerstad, but the supporting piece needs to be more well rounded than Norby IMO. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Just now, Sox72 said: I think this is a good time for me to point out that I am a real estate attorney and if you have any needs in that area, please reach out. Wish I would have known just bought a new one. 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, ptatc said: Yes you have. You stated that he has a valuation of players and what they are worth and he won't change that. That's one thing you like about him. This is what I recall, but I’m a mush talker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Guy Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ptatc said: Yes you have. You stated that he has a valuation of players and what they are worth and he won't change that. That's one thing you like about him. No I didn’t say that and that’s still different from saying Elias knows what Cease will cost. Edited January 5 by Sports Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 minutes ago, T R U said: Walk rate, sure. I was only talking about the hard hit stats that you were pressing. Lets throw out Ceases 2022 hard hit percentage, his career avg is practically the same. That's the problem - if you throw out his 2022, it dramatically hurts his value, he doesn't look like a Cy Young contender if he's putting up this high walk rate, a high hard-hit rate, and a slowly declining fastball and K-Rate. If teams are paying the prices people here want, they are paying it because they think they can get something closer to 2022 out of him. I don't think they will pay those prices this offseason because I think people will go this deep into his performance and be skeptical about getting 2022 out of him again until he shows that he can. It is also totally believable how he did that well in 2022, he had a dominant performance particularly with his slider. Stands out incredibly in his statistics no one could hit it, and it kept everyone off his fastball. If he can get back to that in the first half of this season, then he would absolutely justify the prices people want for him right now. His fastball velocity dropped a bit in 2023 which is concerning, but the big difference was actually in the slider itself. His slider dropped from 78 mph in 2022 to 74.8 mph in 2023 - that suggests it was a fundamentally different pitch, something about the grip or the mechanics was different and that's what hurt him. Can he get that fixed? If he can, then boom, you'll see a dominant first half from Cease again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 8 minutes ago, ptatc said: There is no reason to think that this is "best and final" stage yet. Some of the competition may be waiting on Snell to accept or decline their offer which will change their offer to the Sox for Cease. For example the Yankees may lose snell to the giants. Now they really want Cease and add another prospect to the deal. I agree with Sports Guy on the greater metaphor. Home buying generally doesn't go more than a couple volleys. And the emotions involved with an insulting low-ball might just eliminate that person from further consideration. Because that guy has exposed that he might be an a-hole over every single detail, and the selling family just doesn't want to have 3 months of war. Add to that, to avoid breaking the law, the Realtor is going to have to be careful on how much they coach buyers on their negotiations. I don't know how a situation like the Cease trade market works, in essence. I also agree with Sports Guy that at some point, they're talking to a couple of teams about their prospect packages, and the teams who have no way of matching are just out and not wasting time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 56 minutes ago, fathom said: Also tells you that the Yanks and Orioles, at a minimum, are willing to part with big names if they’re still interested. Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said: This is what I recall, but I’m a mush talker. At this point it's just to drive up the post numbers as the semester hasn't started and I'm bored with no one around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, Pale Sox said: This thread has become one big pissing contest and it’s fucking annoying. It's going to be comical when Cease goes elsewhere for a ransom and all these O's fans wasted 6 weeks of their life accumulating hundreds of know-it-all posts on a White Sox message board. Only to become more comical when the O's pitching is terrible in 2024. 1 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said: No I didn’t say that and that’s still different from saying Elias knows what Cease will cost. I don't think that different. If he is set on his offer and won't change it, that is exactly saying he knows what Cease is worth, at least in his mind. It's an good quality to stick to your opinion but it could cost you a player. You knows maybe he's right and the players he keeps will help the team more in the long run than Cease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: It's going to be comical when Cease goes elsewhere for a ransom and all these O's fans wasted 6 weeks of their life accumulating hundreds of know-it-all posts on a White Sox message board. Only to become more comical when the O's pitching is terrible in 2024. I can’t wait. The Sports Guy will then fade into silence. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: It's going to be comical when Cease goes elsewhere for a ransom and all these O's fans wasted 6 weeks of their life accumulating hundreds of know-it-all posts on a White Sox message board. Only to become more comical when the O's pitching is terrible in 2024. Isn't that what fan boards are for though? Wasting time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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