Braves acquire Jarred Kelenic

[hogan873]

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

I don’t see how Braves can create a good enough package for Cease if the Sox are also taking on Marco’s contract.

Yeah, I don't see how Marco being part of a package makes any sense.

[baseball_gal_aly]

11 minutes ago, fathom said:

I don’t see how Braves can create a good enough package for Cease if the Sox are also taking on Marco’s contract.

Could it be possible that Cease is viewed a lot less favorably by the other 29 clubs than he is on this board? 

Could be that teams are only willing to give up one back end T100 guy as the centerpiece and the rest of the deal will be lottery tickets. 

What I'm getting at is that Maybe Cease's value is closer to the deals that Bowden suggested for the Sox. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by baseball_gal_aly

[Nokona]

If it scores us Waldrep, Grissom, AJSS and another and we move him at the deadline it could make a lot of sense

[Tnetennba]

1 minute ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Could it be possible that Cease is viewed a lot less favorably by the other 29 clubs than he is on this board? 

Not out of the realm of possibility, but a young starter w/ 2 years of control who flirted with a Cy Young very recently should be worth far more in trade than taking on bad money in return. 

[fathom]

Just now, Tnetennba said:

Not out of the realm of possibility, but a young starter w/ 2 years of control who flirted with a Cy Young very recently should be worth far more in trade than taking on bad money in return. 

Just where is Grissom supposed to play defensively?  

[Tnetennba]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Just where is Grissom supposed to play defensively?  

No idea. If a Gonzalez / Grissom ATL package is actually being discussed, then JR has every intention of cutting every corner in a very foolish attempt to “contend” now, and those are Getz’s marching orders. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

4 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Not out of the realm of possibility, but a young starter w/ 2 years of control who flirted with a Cy Young very recently should be worth far more in trade than taking on bad money in return. 

Think of what Cease did outside of 2022 and that's probably closer to his value. What would you give up for his 2021 and 2023? 

[WestEddy]

15 minutes ago, fathom said:

I don’t see how Braves can create a good enough package for Cease if the Sox are also taking on Marco’s contract.

Unless the only way AA can justify the overpay Getz wants is to make the White Sox take on some dead money. Grissom, Waldrep, the guy with 2 last names, Gonzo and White for Cease. 

[SoCalChiSox]

3 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Could it be possible that Cease is viewed a lot less favorably by the other 29 clubs than he is on this board? 

Could be that teams are only willing to give up one back end T100 guy as the centerpiece and the rest of the deal will be lottery tickets. 

What I'm getting at is that Maybe Cease's value is closer to the deals that Bowden suggested for the Sox. 

That would contradict the vast majority of the reporting out there, including by highly credible people like Rosenthal.

It's very unlikely Cease would garner only a single Top 100 plus lottery tickets. 

It's more likely that in this market two Top 100 players is the absolute floor. 

IMO...a Top 50, plus someone in the back half of the Top 100 plus someone in the 10-20 range of a deep system is what I expect. 

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Unless the only way AA can justify the overpay Getz wants is to make the White Sox take on some dead money. Grissom, Waldrep, the guy with 2 last names, Gonzo and White for Cease. 

Could have just gotten Kelenic also, and then gotten more for Cease

[SoCalChiSox]

26 minutes ago, fathom said:

 

Uh oh...this doesn't seem good at all.

Maybe ATL is proposing to send AJSS, Waldrep, Gonzales, Grissom and Kelenic to Chicago. 

If they kept Kelenic it wouldn't make sense because it's too much overkill on the pitching side for Chicago to get the 2 pitchers and Gonzales. We need to get legit position players and by legit position players I don't mean Grissom.

[ChiSox59]

28 minutes ago, fathom said:

I don’t see how Braves can create a good enough package for Cease if the Sox are also taking on Marco’s contract.

AJ S-S, Kelenic, Grissom or Waldrep and Gonzales seems like a pretty solid return to me. 

[Rusty_Kuntz]

9 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Think of what Cease did outside of 2022 and that's probably closer to his value. What would you give up for his 2021 and 2023? 

Why would you throw out a player's best year, a year that was only two seasons ago, when determining his value? The sample size is only 3 years, so 33% of the same size he was elite. 

His floor is probably 3 WAR on a good team. His ceiling is 6+ WAR. I think for a guy who will cost very little that's worth two top 100 prospects and another lighter piece. 

[GREEDY]

13 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah they used Kelenic to salary dump Gonzo and White.

This was the style trade the Sox *could* have done the entire rebuild.  

I can't believe it doesn't happen on a much lower scale, every year.  Teams looking to avoid the luxury tax hit could move distant prospects to move a million here or there.  Savvy clubs with money to burn could constantly be adding org depth. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

40 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

If the Sox are intent on getting a legit ready to play OF prospect in the Cease trade or giving Colas another shot after more development, then it wouldn't make sense at all to target Kelenic.

 

Why not ? Is there a rule that says you can't have 2 LH youngish OFs who might turn into MLB players ?

[fathom]

8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

AJ S-S, Kelenic, Grissom or Waldrep and Gonzales seems like a pretty solid return to me. 

Every indication is Kelenic stays in Atlanta

[SoCalChiSox]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Why not ? Is there a rule that says you can't have 2 LH youngish OFs who might turn into MLB players ?

It's mostly an issue of limited space. If they trade with BAL for example, there's no place for Kelenic. 

JR isnt going to have the highest paid player on the team sitting on the bench and you don't trade for Cowser/Hjerstad only to sit them. 

But if it's an issue of just Colas and no other additions yeah I don't think they care about him.

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, fathom said:

Every indication is Kelenic stays in Atlanta

I kinda figured they were going to look to add a lefty to the Ozuna, Grisson (both righties) mix in LF.

[baseball_gal_aly]

8 minutes ago, Rusty_Kuntz said:

Why would you throw out a player's best year, a year that was only two seasons ago, when determining his value? The sample size is only 3 years, so 33% of the same size he was elite. 

His floor is probably 3 WAR on a good team. His ceiling is 6+ WAR. I think for a guy who will cost very little that's worth two top 100 prospects and another lighter piece. 

Because he's not been close to that type of pitcher any other time in his career. It was fueled by an unsustainable strand rate. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

It's mostly an issue of limited space. If they trade with BAL for example, there's no place for Kelenic. 

JR isnt going to have the highest paid player on the team sitting on the bench and you don't trade for Cowser/Hjerstad only to sit them. 

But if it's an issue of just Colas and no other additions yeah I don't think they care about him.

Maybe someone might, like ,you know, continue to play in the minors. After all the Sox would be trading for prospects/suspects not instant ready to play MLBers. May the best man win. It's called depth or trade pieces.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Maybe someone might, like ,you know, continue to play in the minors. After all the Sox would be trading for prospects/suspects not instant ready to play MLBers. May the best man win. It's called depth or trade pieces.

 

Right. They're not trading for immediate need.

[bmags]

16 minutes ago, fathom said:

Every indication is Kelenic stays in Atlanta

board has veered wildly where now Kelenic is valued higher than Grissom which I find wild. What I find compelling about this trade is they gave up pretty much nothing. I wish we'd have traded for Wright. I wish we'd have had a part in this deal. 

[Balta1701]

36 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

That would contradict the vast majority of the reporting out there, including by highly credible people like Rosenthal.

It's very unlikely Cease would garner only a single Top 100 plus lottery tickets. 

It's more likely that in this market two Top 100 players is the absolute floor. 

IMO...a Top 50, plus someone in the back half of the Top 100 plus someone in the 10-20 range of a deep system is what I expect. 

But are Rosenthal's reports something being fed to him by a biased source - Chris Getz, for example, trying to drive interest in a weak market, leaking "oh everyone is in on him the Dodgers are in on him the Orioles the Giants there's huge interest he's 90% likely to be moved for a huge return" - all of that can be reported if Chris Getz or someone very close to him tells you it.

If it turns out that the person leaking all that stuff is lying...Rosenthal and others aren't going to burn their sources by revealing who it was telling them that. You guys won't suddenly stop believing Rosenthal's next insider report if this one turns out inaccurate. Why wouldn't the teams and reporters use each other like that, to try to drive a market?

[baseball_gal_aly]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

But are Rosenthal's reports something being fed to him by a biased source - Chris Getz, for example, trying to drive interest in a weak market, leaking "oh everyone is in on him the Dodgers are in on him the Orioles the Giants there's huge interest he's 90% likely to be moved for a huge return" - all of that can be reported if Chris Getz or someone very close to him tells you it.

If it turns out that the person leaking all that stuff is lying...Rosenthal and others aren't going to burn their sources by revealing who it was telling them that. You guys won't suddenly stop believing Rosenthal's next insider report if this one turns out inaccurate. Why wouldn't the teams and reporters use each other like that, to try to drive a market?

I hate that I agree with you so much. 

But then again, the Sox were able to get Quero for Giolito when I thought he was just going to be a salary dump. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by baseball_gal_aly

[Bob Sacamano]

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

board has veered wildly where now Kelenic is valued higher than Grissom which I find wild. What I find compelling about this trade is they gave up pretty much nothing. I wish we'd have traded for Wright. I wish we'd have had a part in this deal. 

It's only the LHH part of it.