Balta1701 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Nardiwashere said: This is absurd. Kopech has been here 7 years. He sucks. Also- show me the quote where they said "We guarantee he will be fixed and turn into a good starting pitcher" Quote “I had Michael in Boston,” Bannister said. “I’m a big believer in him. We’ve already had some initial discussions. … Going forward, there are things we did in Boston that I’m looking to also do here, and I think we can give him what he needs to take his game to another level like he was a couple years ago.” https://allchgo.com/fixing-michael-kopech-white-sox-turn-to-new-front-office-hire-brian-bannister-for-one-of-offseasons-top-priorities/ https://soxmachine.com/2024/02/brian-bannister-white-sox-michael-kopech/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: You know what I would love - if the Sox signed 2 guys and used $20M or so to do it - maybe even $25 or $30M. But did it knowing they would be gone by the deadline and you are basically using them to buy prospects. I know that isn't "cheap" but they would only be on the hook for the prorated part...although there is some risk, pitcher could get hurt or stink and thus no market to trade and thus you eat the full salary. This would have been a perfect time for them to try what they tried 2014-2016, Sign some guys and hope for the best. If they play as expected, you lose no draft position. If a few work out, you can deal them for prospects or hover around .500 and contend. It doesn't make any sense to me why they are almost trying to be that bad again. There is nothing in it for them. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Just now, Dick Allen said: This would have been a perfect time for them to try what they tried 2014-2016, Sign some guys and hope for the best. If they play as expected, you lose no draft position. If a few work out, you can deal them for prospects or hover around .500 and contend. It doesn't make any sense to me why they are almost trying to be that bad again. There is nothing in it for them. Exactly what should have happened. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 6 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: I actually think it makes sense. Kopech doesn't have a ton of control left and I think odds that he makes it as a starter are pretty slim given all the innings limits he has had. So I don't see much any value to the Sox in the long-run with Kopech as a starter. If he figures it out - Sox won't have control with him and he'll walk (and odds he figures it all out this year probably slim). Now - if he goes to the pen - and he can really focus on 2 pitches - I like the chances that he could become an elite reliever (He was damn good in that role way back when). If he can go there and kick butt this season - that might be best way to maximize value for the Sox as you now have a better shot in my opinion of getting real talent for him (whether this year or next year). Or am I wrong and we have more control than just this year and next year? 4.041 years of service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: This would have been a perfect time for them to try what they tried 2014-2016, Sign some guys and hope for the best. If they play as expected, you lose no draft position. If a few work out, you can deal them for prospects or hover around .500 and contend. It doesn't make any sense to me why they are almost trying to be that bad again. There is nothing in it for them. 2014-2016 was them "signing guys and hoping for the best"? No it wasn't, it was them emptying the system constantly because they thought they were 1 player away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: https://allchgo.com/fixing-michael-kopech-white-sox-turn-to-new-front-office-hire-brian-bannister-for-one-of-offseasons-top-priorities/ https://soxmachine.com/2024/02/brian-bannister-white-sox-michael-kopech/ Lolololol... so on March 14 of his first season here, you have written off Bannister because he gave some generic "I believe in Kopech. I can't wait to try to get his game back to the next level!" quote when he was hired? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 I’m just glad he’s not going to start anymore. This is a step to get him off the team. Everyone knows he needs to move on to a different team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 49 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said: If you're sending him to Charlotte to stretch out his innings as a starter, why can't he do the same thing in Chicago on a 110 loss team? Serious question...not being a dick. First & foremost, we should pretend we are attempting to win games next year until they actually don’t matter, so I don’t really support the “110 loss team” being a fair excuse for us not sending him to Charlotte to open the season. As such, it is very challenging to carry a dedicated opener on your roster as it limits the amount of true bullpen guys you have available on a daily basis. And that’s problematic when you have a very questionable rotation. Second, are there things he needs to work on to be more successful as a starter vs. a reliever beyond just building up his innings? If so, why not let him do so in a less stressful environment where results don’t matter? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 26 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: The guy we traded him for has already been assigned to minor league camp and is burning his last option while also occupying a 40 man roster spot on a team with a boatload of available NRIs who could fill that roster spot. As of now, yes, that is stupid. Churn the bottom of your roster when you have a team this bad, don't give up guys you have control over who could still be moved to the bullpen in the minors to grab bullpen pieces who clog roster spots and can't even make the big league team out of spring training. The only way that makes sense is oh hey, Horn appears to have solid off speed stuff, if Barfield and Bannister like him maybe they can make him a valuable reliever this year. Trust Barfield and Bannister, they know what they're doing. How is Horn burning his last option? Wasn’t he added to the 40 man roster this offseason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, flavum said: I’m just glad he’s not going to start anymore. This is a step to get him off the team. Everyone knows he needs to move on to a different team. Aren't arbitration type contracts non-guaranteed still? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: How is Horn burning his last option? Wasn’t he added to the 40 man roster this offseason? Looks like you're right he has 3 options. Am I thinking of the guy who came from Arizona with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: Looks like you're right he has 3 options. Am I thinking of the guy who came from Arizona with that? I think Fletcher was added to the Dbacks’ 40 man last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Kopech is quickly entering bust territory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: 2014-2016 was them "signing guys and hoping for the best"? No it wasn't, it was them emptying the system constantly because they thought they were 1 player away. There has to be a system to empty. The system sucked. They made an awful trade for the Shark. It made no sense for a rental. They did trade for Eaton, who turned out pretty well with performance, and got a haul trading him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Sounds like we’ve been “dangling” Kopech per Nightengale’s latest article: Quote The White Sox, meanwhile, hope to contend again within two years. They’re still open for business with center fielder Luis Robert Jr. the only untouchable, while dangling pitcher Michael Kopech, who’s now being converted to the bullpen, along with slugger Yoan Moncada and third baseman Eloy Jimenez. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Just now, Dick Allen said: There has to be a system to empty. The system sucked. They made an awful trade for the Shark. It made no sense for a rental. They did trade for Eaton, who turned out pretty well with performance, and got a haul trading him. They gave up 2 MVP candidates, an all star pitcher, and another pitcher who had a decent year or two, plus a backup catcher in trades over an 18 month period. There was some serious talent in that system, not well recognized though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Sounds like we’ve been “dangling” Kopech per Nightengale’s latest article: If Kopech works out of the pen and is throwing 98+ and mixing in his breaking pitch - he will dominate and teams will pay up for that. How much, I don't know, but its worth a lot more than whatever failed attempt at making him a starter. By the time he finally could start he'd be leaving the Sox for nothing and there is no way he's going to just break-out this season to point you could get real value for him with a year of control (cause there is too much not good with him starting). As a reliever though - I think if he was bringing it and it was dominating - you could get his value up real quick. If he it doesn't work - well than you weren't getting anything for him anyway. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Sounds like we’ve been “dangling” Kopech per Nightengale’s latest article: Hahah good luck with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 11 minutes ago, Soxfest said: Kopech is quickly entering bust territory Quickly? He’s already there based on where he was as a prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: If Kopech works out of the pen and is throwing 98+ and mixing in his breaking pitch - he will dominate and teams will pay up for that. How much, I don't know, but its worth a lot more than whatever failed attempt at making him a starter. By the time he finally could start he'd be leaving the Sox for nothing and there is no way he's going to just break-out this season to point you could get real value for him with a year of control (cause there is too much not good with him starting). As a reliever though - I think if he was bringing it and it was dominating - you could get his value up real quick. If he it doesn't work - well than you weren't getting anything for him anyway. He's had zero FB command this spring, so I'd hold off on the hopes on dominating for the moment. I do think that if he can find that control, working out of the pen is the fastest way to up his value. But that's a big IF right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 I'm of two minds here: 1. I can't wait to be rid of him and 2. He might actually turn into a great reliever. I look at Liam Hendriks as an example and how god awful he was as a starter between MIN, KC, and TOR with an ERA+ of like 70 and a FIP close to 6 for four years. Toronto decides to bring him back and turn him into a reliever, focus his energy on just max effort for a short run. Like a bulldog with horse blinders on. Kopech is worth nothing to anyone as a starter anymore - he is what he is at this point. But I can squint and see the talent, MAYBE we can get that bulldog 9th inning out of him and he can turn his career around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Sounds like we’ve been “dangling” Kopech per Nightengale’s latest article: Reminds of that "I've got a dollar!" on a fishing pole insurance commercial from awhile back 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 7 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: He's had zero FB command this spring, so I'd hold off on the hopes on dominating for the moment. I do think that if he can find that control, working out of the pen is the fastest way to up his value. But that's a big IF right now. There is a different mentality though in starting vs. relieving which I think gets into what Katz said. I know some people will say its "fluff" but its true. If you know you are going to face a pitcher 2 or 3 times, you are thinking about how you set them up now and down the road (I laugh when I type this - cause 10 years ago it would have been 3 or more times not 2 or 3 times). But as a reliever - you know this is all you got - so you are going to give it all you got (whether its 1 inning or 2 innings - you know that is it). I tend to think this also better fits Kopech's personality and mentality too. Add in the injury issues and other things - I wonder just how much Kopech is thinking vs. throwing and being aggressive when he's on the mound as a starter. Note: He very much could still suck - but that means he would have FOR SURE stunk as a starter, so I really see this as a no-brainer move and I'm going to be an optimist here and say as long as Kopech is healthy - this will pay off and we'll see him develop into a high leverage reliever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: They gave up 2 MVP candidates, an all star pitcher, and another pitcher who had a decent year or two, plus a backup catcher in trades over an 18 month period. There was some serious talent in that system, not well recognized though. Most of the guys they traded where worse than the guys they just got for Cease. You complain if they trade them, you complain if they acquire them. The good news is this new hitting coach is the bomb. Paul Dejong is fixed. Look at his spring training stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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